Poland fines singer for bashing Bible

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Jan 17, 12, 19:37 #1

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/6269061/Poland-fines-singer-for-bashin g-Bible

Polish singer Dorota Rabczewska has been fined for saying she doubted the Bible "because it's hard to believe in something that was written by someone drunk on wine and smoking some herbs."

Thoughts on this? I can't believe she was fined as this seems a pretty blatant disregard for freedom of speech, not to mention that she's also correct.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,990 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 19:42 #2
How can one be fined for such things? Under what interpretation of which law? "A Warsaw court ordered her Monday to pay a fine of 5000 zlotys (NZ$1827) for offending religious feelings." -Offending religious groups? Oh F*ck off?

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 19:42 #3
That's only the first stage. The Polish legal process is long and inefficient. They tend to do the sabre rattling first then back down. And even if she doesn't have it overturned (although she will) for Doda this is an inexpensive piece of PR.

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 20:05 #4
She deserves the fine for her most idiotic and erroneous reasoning.

Foreigner4Threads: 22 Posts: 1,990 Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 20:08 #5
^ explain that one.

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Jan 17, 12, 20:21 #6

WhyMedSchool:

I can't believe she was fined as this seems a pretty blatant disregard for freedom of speech, not to mention that she's also correct.

I think that you are walking piece of trash !

How about that ? Do you regard that as my right to speak freely or do you find that offensive and insulting whether I'm right or not?

She should pay much more than 5 000 zl and so should her former lover !

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Jan 17, 12, 20:24 #7

There's plenty of reasons one can give not to believe the bible as literal truth, but being drunk and stoned doesn't make the many writers of the books that 'make up' the bible, or anyone else, a liar. I'm never so honest as when I am drunk. Only a very childish mind could take the most influential literature there has ever been as dismiss it with such a crass argument as to why it is unbelievable.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 20:38 #8
Ironside: Do you regard that as my right to speak freely or do you find that offensive and insulting whether I'm right or not? A false comparison. She was giving her opinion on a book.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jan 17, 12, 20:44 #9
Actually Bible people were most likely sober. Drinking to the point of drunkness was not acceptable in the Roman Empire.

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Jan 17, 12, 20:50 #10

JonnyM:

A false comparison. She was giving her opinion on a book.

that is not a book by many is regarded as the book.
Should I then make that comparison more valid by insulting his mother or parents?
Maybe lifestyle or something he holds dear?
The point is nobody should be able to insult people or their beliefs without consequences. Sadly some people seems to think that is doesn't apply to the religion.
Meaning you can say what you think about religion or Bible but in a way that isn't insulting.
What says you ?

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 20:50 #11
Seperation of church and state. It's about time Poland gets out of the stone age.

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 20:56 #12
modafinil: She deserves the fine for her most idiotic and erroneous reasoning. exactly stone the talentless dog

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Jan 17, 12, 21:00 #13

Ironside:

that is not a book by many is regarded as the book.
Should I then make that comparison more valid by insulting his mother or parents?

It isn't anyone's parents. It is a book. Would you also prosecute Sir Salman Rushdie?

modafinil:

being drunk and stoned doesn't make the many writers of the books that 'make up' the bible, or anyone else, a liar.

Certainly alcohol was popular in that time and place, but some of the books of the bible (Jeremiah, Ecclesiastes, Revelation) seem more the product of serious and untreated mental illness.

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 21:05 #14
JonnyM: Would you also prosecute Sir Salman Rushdie? me personally, yes gladly the vile little git deserved the fatwa and I for one am disappointed that he did not get what he deserved winding up the entire muslim community just to make a few quid the poisonous little weasel

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Jan 17, 12, 21:16 #15

JonnyM:

Ecclesiastes

Is the most noble book in the entire Old Testament. You cannot honestly believe that it is:

JonnyM:

the product of serious and untreated mental illness.

unless you yourself are cracked.

modafinil:

There's plenty of reasons one can give not to believe the bible as literal truth, but being drunk and stoned doesn't make the many writers of the books that 'make up' the bible, or anyone else, a liar.

I agree with you Mondafil. This pop singer's critique of the Bible was that of an uptight ignoramus.

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Edited by: modafinil Jan 17, 12, 21:28 #16

JonnyM:

Certainly alcohol was popular in that time and place, but some of the books of the bible (Jeremiah, Ecclesiastes, Revelation) seem more the product of serious and untreated mental illness.

When I worked in Mental Health I was told psychotic's could only communicate from within a dreamlike state using symbolism. The use of 'psychodelic' drugs can also mimic this state. Though anyone who claims to have deciphered St. John's work in Revelations in modern times needs his head checked. It must have been great entertainment waybackwhen and given its hearers much to muse over.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 21:30 #17
Foreigner4: "A Warsaw court ordered her Monday to pay a fine of 5000 zlotys (NZ$1827) for offending religious feelings." -Offending religious groups? Oh F*ck off? that is the law in Poland - if you feel obliged to change it start campaining - be a New Male Suffragist

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Jan 17, 12, 22:15 #18

Ironside:

She did it to be a subject of controversy to promote herself to be able to make more monies - despicable,she should pay a fine.

People say and do things all the time just to make some money.

Is there a list of things in Poland's constitution that says, "You have freedom of speech most of the time, as long as you don't insult A, B, C, and D." ???

I didn't know "Blasphemy" was still illegal in the developed world.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 22:26 #19
FUZZYWICKETS: You have freedom of speech most of the time, as long as you don't insult A, B, C, and D." ??? try insulting Mr Komorowski :) I'm pretty sure you would regret it dearly

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Jan 17, 12, 22:36 #20

I don't recall the exact phrasing, but Polish law forbids inciting ethnic. racial or relgious hatred and that includes offending religious sensibilities. Wouldn't the New York press making a big deal about Dodo (er, um, oops...I mean Doda) change their tune if someone had r'pped up the Torah on stage, wiped his bum with an Israeli flag or placed a star of David in a jar of urine and called it art? The latter BTW occurred a few years ago in New York, except someone placed a crucifix in a jar of pee. Christians were outraged, but the arty-farty and liberal media types, especially those of the 'chosen race' who run the show were invoking freedom of artistic expression.
But when they are publicly atacked or ridiculed they call for a ban on 'hate speech'. Either there is total freedom for all views, or laws mandating civility are impartially enforced across the board. You can't have your matzoh and eat it!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 22:36 #21
FUZZYWICKETS: People say and do things all the time just to make some money. Should they be able to make a mockery and abuse freedom of speech just to make a few bucks ?

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Jan 17, 12, 22:38 #22
Ironside: Should they be able to make a mockery and abuse freedom of speech just to make a few bucks ? see my comment about Salman Rushdie above

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 17, 12, 22:53 #23
" Should they be able to make a mockery and abuse freedom of speech just to make a few bucks ?" The thing about freedom of speech is that one had to agree that if one has it, everybody else had the right to call one an arssehole. I support free speech (although there obviously is not free speech here).

a.k.

Jan 17, 12, 22:56 #24

FUZZYWICKETS:

Seperation of church and state.

Polish law says that no one can offend someone's religious feelings. That's not only about Catholicism but other religions too.

FUZZYWICKETS:

It's about time Poland gets out of the stone age.

Please cut such comments. It's not your country.

WhyMedSchool:

I can't believe she was fined

Hard to believe is that her boyfriend wasn't fined after burning on stage Bible.

FUZZYWICKETS:

Is there a list of things in Poland's constitution that says, "You have freedom of speech most of the time, as long as you don't insult A, B, C, and D." ???

Yes you cannot offend the head of the goverment. Do you remember the case of some drunk homeless?

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jan 17, 12, 23:02 #25
Being fined for something like this is silly but someone should inform the singer the Apostles were not drunk. They drank wine that was very watered down as was the custome back then since plain water made people sick.

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Edited by: Foreigner4 Jan 17, 12, 23:07 #26

gumishu:

that is the law in Poland - if you feel obliged to change it start campaining - be a New Male Suffragist

The "Oh F*ck off" part was actually my prophecy of your reply, so please heed my directive.

Now, anyone should be able to see that "offending" someone is more up to them than it is up to you. One decides if one is offended and if one is so inclined can take great liberty with what is truly offensive and what is not. Think about how that forces people to behave: don't question religion if you're not very well spoken, you may offend someone and have to pay them money.
This isn't a Polish problem, merely the Polish expression of how freedom of speech is covertly curtailed by those in power (it appears the RCC is still in power here).

PlasticPole:

Being fined for something like this is silly but someone should inform the singer the Apostles were not drunk. They drank wine that was very watered down as was the custome back then since plain water made people sick.

Is this a Fact or just something that religious people like to pretend is a fact if one calls into question the cultural habits of those who wrote the bible? I'm doubtful but open to hearing the explanation or source for this.

a.k.

Jan 17, 12, 23:10 #27

Harry:

I support free speech (although there obviously is not free speech here).

Do you also support hate speech on ethnic group? Do you support fascist rights of free speech?
I don't. And I don't support hate based on religious background too.
As for the case of Doda, she shouldn't be fined because it wasn't really offensive. It was her who made a bit of blondie out of herself by saying that she rather will believe in dianosours than stories from Bible! Lol.
I think that her comment was merely her personal opinion not a hate speech.

a.k.	Jan 17, 12, 23:12 #28
a.k.: Do you support fascist rights of free speech? Of course should be: the fascists' rights of a free speech.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 17, 12, 23:17 #29
a.k.: Do you support fascist rights of free speech? I may disagree with what they sa but I'd die for their right to say it. a.k.: I think that her comment was merely her personal opinion not a hate speech. Which by definition makes it perfectly acceptable.

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Jan 17, 12, 23:19 #30

FUZZYWICKETS:

Seperation of church and state. It's about time Poland gets out of the stone age.

Which is ridiculous coming from a American, a predictable and meaningless mantra.

modafinil:

She deserves the fine for her most idiotic and erroneous reasoning.

No, she deserves the fine for breaking a law. If you don't like a particular law, tough ****.

Different countries have different sensibilities, drinking alcohol, sex with 16 years olds or prostitution is illegal in some countries, outrageous you may think but in their country they make the law so abide by it.

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