POLAND, GAZPROM AND THE RISE OF RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Edited by: Olga Apr 30, 10, 04:43 #1

Gazprom’s control over its gas supplies keeps tightening. Chaos erupted in the Ukrainian parliament on April 26, 2010, as parliament approved a treaty allowing Russia to extend the lease on a naval base in a Ukrainian port on the Black Sea until 2042 — a move bitterly opposed by pro-Western lawmakers. Ukraine would get cheap natural gas from Russia in exchange. Russia's influence in Ukraine has surged since the February election victory of pro-Kremlin President Viktor Yanukovych. Ukrainian nationalists who resented Moscow's long dominance of their land regarded the Russian fleet's presence as tantamount to military occupation.
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/65171/

Polish president slams govt over Russia gas talks—Jan. 9/2010
Poland's conservative President Lech Kaczynski criticised the centre-right government for prolonging gas negotiations with Russia and deepening Poland's already-heavy reliance on Russian gas. "The information about prolonged intergovernmental negotiations on supplies as well as signals that the agreement draft makes Poland even more dependent on Russian gas, and has forced President Kaczynski to ask Prime Minister Donald Tusk for clarification.” Kaczynski is a frequent critic of Russia and accuses it of trying to reassert its influence in the former Soviet bloc by means including energy supplies.
http://in.reuters.com/article/oilRpt/idINLDE60802420100109

Gazprom Debt Obstructs Poland-Russia Gas Agreement—Jan. 11, 2010
Poland and Russia have yet to sign a gas delivery deal for 2010 due to Gazprom owing Warsaw around 410 million dollars. Poland still has not signed a deal on gas supplies with Russian energy giant Gazprom, which should have been agreed at the end of last year. Poland is delaying the signing because the Russian company owes it over one billion zloty (410 million dollars).
http://www.oilandgaseurasia.com/news/p/0/news/6428

Gas more important than quarrels with Russia: Polish PM—Mar. 20, 2010
Gas supplies are more important than ideological quarrels with Russia, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Friday in parliament replying to criticism of his government's gas policy by oppositionist Law and Justice (PiS). PiS caucus leader Aleksandra Natalli-Swiat accused the Tusk team of protracting Poland's dependence on Russian gas by sealing a longterm contract with Russia's gas distributor Gazprom.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6925411.html

Russian gas quarrels Polish politicians—Mar. 29, 2010
Approved in February, the Polish government a new contract to supply the country and transit of Russian gas has led to public conflicts Deputy Prime Minister Waldemar Pawlak of the Polish government and Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski. After a year of negotiations with Russia's Gazprom, on February 11 Poland approved the agreement on the terms of Russian gas deliveries to Poland until 2037 and its transit to Germany until 2045. Experts estimate that Poland will lose 4.5 billion dollars of net profit for the transit of Russian gas under the new contract.
http://en.ura-inform.com/politics/2010/03/29/pl_gas#

Poland Gas Find Threatens Russia’s Hold Over EU—Apr. 7, 2010
Vast reserves of shale gas lying under Poland could free Western Europe from its dependence on Russian natural gas. Energy consultants estimate up to 1.36 trillion cubic metres of unconventional shale gas could be lying under northern and central Poland. If the find is confirmed it will increase the EU's reserves by 47 per cent and offer a more reliable alternative to Russia's vast natural gas supplies.
http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=3753

Russia, Poland agree to amendments to intergovernmental gas agreement
Russia and Poland have coordinated the text of a protocol introducing changes to an intergovernmental agreement on cooperation in the sphere of gas.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin signed a decree confirming the draft on April 13, 2010.
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/64462/

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 05:18 #2
Poland should use its vast coal reserves to produce natural gas through coal gasification which has been around forever. Poland needs to learn to be more independent. You're such a "needy" culture.

OlgaThreads: 2 Posts: 380 Joined: Apr 12, 10 ♀	Apr 30, 10, 05:36 #3
Isn't the timeline more than a little telling?

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Apr 30, 10, 05:58 #4

Isn't the timeline more than a little telling?

It's ridiculous to be dealing with a country for your energy supplies when they occupied your country for 200 years and after the recent spat with the Ukraine.

there is so much that Poland can do for their gas needs: recover methane reserves from coal beds, manufacture methane from your agricultural sector & urban sewage systems, construct coal gasification facilities. I wouldn't buy gas until these other energy sources were fully investigated.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 08:01 #5
Olga: Isn't the timeline more than a little telling? is it telling you the russkies killed kaczka?

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 08:06 #6
plk123: is it telling you the russkies killed kaczka? Like tea leaves she can now read the Oil ;):P

czarThreads: 4 Posts: 248 Joined: Mar 3, 10 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 08:14 #7
follow the euro

OlgaThreads: 2 Posts: 380 Joined: Apr 12, 10 ♀	Apr 30, 10, 08:19 #8
The Kremlin has certainly killed for less.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 30, 10, 21:55 #9
We can summarise it all very simply by saying that 'business is business'. This maxim knows no national boundaries.

OlgaThreads: 2 Posts: 380 Joined: Apr 12, 10 ♀	Edited by: Olga Apr 30, 10, 22:22 #10
If Gazprom were a normal Western company, interested in profits and building customer relations, one could apply such a simple analysis but, as recent events show, Gazprom isn't that kind of company; it's more aptly described as a tool of foreign policy for Russia.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	May 1, 10, 12:11 #11
Olga: Gazprom isn't that kind of company; I agree, its more like the East India Trading Company.

OlgaThreads: 2 Posts: 380 Joined: Apr 12, 10 ♀	May 1, 10, 12:13 #12
szkotja2007: its more like the East India Trading Company Gazprom is the third largest company in the world.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	May 1, 10, 12:21 #13
Olga: Gazprom is the third largest company in the world. Rated by what means - profit? turnover ? Here is a link for the East India Trading Company. I think this is the way Gazprom are heading in Eastern Europe.

OlgaThreads: 2 Posts: 380 Joined: Apr 12, 10 ♀	Edited by: Olga May 1, 10, 12:35 #14
szkotja2007: Rated by what means - profit? turnover ? Profit. 20% of the Russian economy is based on its taxes alone, which would certainly explain all the political maneuvering lately. Did I mention Medvedev was the CEO of Gazprom before his presidency?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 2, 10, 12:05 #15
That kind of thing happens a lot though, Olga. Hamid Karzai was a consultant in Unocal before accepting his post in Afghanistan. It is Putin that is the wolf, not Medvedev. Poland is heavily reliant on Gazprom's supplies. They say Poland has its own supplies so why aren't they using them?

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	Edited by: sykora May 2, 10, 22:37 #16
Seanus: It is Putin that is the wolf, not Medvedev. Yes, Medvedev was handpicked by the wolf himself for his powerful influence with Gazprom. Seanus: They say Poland has its own supplies so why aren't they using them? Ahhhh... why do YOU think? Ukraine also has abundant stores of shale gas...BUT Putin just announced that Gazprom is to pursue a "merger" with Naftogaz.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus May 2, 10, 22:40 #17
Well, they know that Russia will run out eventually and they maybe want to see that sooner rather than later :) Also, the contracts have been signed and they will honour them. Any sensible country is making provisions on future energy options as we speak across the board.

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	May 2, 10, 22:51 #18
Were you aware that Poland waived Gazprom a 410 million dollar debt when the agreement was signed on April 13th? Kaczynski was furious over this "amendment", which resulted in this amendment being put on hold when Kaczynski was alive. http://www.oilandgaseurasia.com/news/p/0/news/6428 http://www.energia.gr/article_en.asp?art_id=21520 http://www.kyivpost.com/news/russia/detail/64462/

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 2, 10, 22:55 #19
That's quite a sizeable figure. I wish I could waive that kind of money :) Please check interviews with Garry Kasparov. He's a super smart guy who often speaks about Putin and his business deals.

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	May 2, 10, 23:02 #20
Do you have any links, Seanus?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 2, 10, 23:05 #21
None at hand but they are easy to find on Youtube. I'm sure you'll find them :)

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	Edited by: sykora May 2, 10, 23:06 #22
Thanks for narrowing it down ;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 2, 10, 23:09 #23
Putin knows he must roll the dice for the future as Russia can hardly boast sustainable development. Russia has a lot of business in the Balkans, esp Montenegro. They need to branch out, otherwise they'll go nowhere fast!

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	May 2, 10, 23:10 #24
Seanus: branch out Interesting choice of words... more like monopolization.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 2, 10, 23:11 #25
They need more business, some diversification.

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Edited by: MareGaea May 2, 10, 23:15 #26

Olga:

could free Western Europe

Well, we in NL have a pretty big gasfield of our own in the Northern part of the country and also in our part of the North Sea. Furthermore, there is Norwegian gas and oil, so I don't think we (NL) will be ever for a 100 per cent be dependent on Russian gas.

Edit: oh, I see, the gas matter is of course a reason to kill the Polish president...I think Russia has other sources that could very well provide a major income. After all it's the largest country in the world and has probably the most resources of all countries on Earth.

>^..^<

M-G (I believe it's one of Europe's biggest gasfields)

sykoraThreads: - Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 19, 10 ♂	Edited by: sykora May 2, 10, 23:17 #27
Diversification, aka conglomerate, is when you look to other investment sources, not consolidation of smaller companies into one monstrous behemoth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conglomerate_(company) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidation

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May 3, 10, 01:54 #28

If Poland was energy independent they wouldn't have to worry about Putin or who or what is the reason why Kaczynski died.

This is a good example of why Poland has been invaded time after time. They (Poland) don't look after themselves first. Politically speaking they leave themselves wide open.

Pursue all domestic energy sources first, than think about signing contracts for energy supplies with your former masters. Poland should avoid all business relationships with both Germany and Russia.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	May 3, 10, 04:18 #29
Chicago Pollock: Poland should avoid all business relationships with both Germany You are suggesting that Poland commits financial suicide? "Great" advice.

VelundThreads: 1 Posts: 417 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	May 3, 10, 04:29 #30
Chicago Pollock: Poland should avoid all business relationships with both Germany and Russia. Why not? Poles may look at Northern Korea to see how it will look like. ;)

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