Poland and Kresy being reunited?

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 10:59 #1
What are people thoughts of Kresy one day reunited with Poland as a single state which is multinational. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:17 #2
Czarnkow1940: What are people thoughts of Kresy one day reunited with Poland as a single state which is multinational. I like to dream, along with Crow, of Poland and other Slavic states forming a huge union, kind of a union of Slavic speaking republics. But seriously. The people are different, what is there to "reunite"? Borders are imaginary.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:26 #3
too full of Belorussian and Ukrainian peasants. it is a better idea to help these countries develop so they can become more economically productive whilst adopting certain governmental norms, that way Poles can settle in the area regardless.

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:32 #4
hague1cmaeron: too full of Belorussian and Ukrainian peasants. Is that a issue? hague1cmaeron: it is a better idea to help these countries develop so they can become more economically productive It hasn't been working what makes you think things would change anytime soon?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:34 #5
Czarnkow1940: What are people thoughts of Kresy I think that Poland should get back her lands. Kresy is just expression which meaning changed in time. convex: Borders are imaginary. somebody had a ****** imagination regarding Polish border hague1cmaeron: too full of Belorussian and Ukrainian peasants. so what ? let them go...

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:39 #6
Ironside: I think that Poland should get back her lands. After coming in last place in WW2, Poland is pretty lucky to have gotten what it did after the war. And yes, the borders are still imaginary. Arbitrary lines on maps.

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:43 #7
convex: Poland is pretty lucky to have gotten what it did after the war. is 45 odd years of Communist rule luck?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:45 #8
Czarnkow1940: is 45 odd years of Communist rule luck? Yes, as opposed to being completely absorbed by the Russians like the neighbors to the east.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:46 #9
I think it is an absurd idea. The tendency in Europe is to re-unite within a global organization, like the EU. If I lived in Ukraine or Lithuania, I wouldn't probably like the country of my residence to be re-united with Poland. What for? To take part in the discussions whether the Cross should be left in front of the Presidential Palace in Warsaw or it should be removed somewhere else?

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:49 #10
convex: Yes, as opposed to being completely absorbed by the Russians like the neighbors to the east. Poland was still under soviet influence considering Poland was promised free elections and Lwow maybe it was better off then the soviet republics but I wouldn't call it lucky.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 11:51 #11
convex: After coming in last place in WW2, what do you mean ?

♂

Jul 27, 10, 11:53 #12

Czarnkow1940:

Poland was still under soviet influence considering Poland was promised free elections and Lwow maybe it was better off then the soviet republics but I wouldn't call it lucky.

Same happened in Romania. Some countries accepted the noose more willingly than others.

Ironside:

what do you mean ?

I mean having your country ravaged by not just one, but two powerful neighbors...and then that whole being occupied for 45 years. That's not exactly a win.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Jul 27, 10, 11:57 #13
Ziemowit: I think it is an absurd idea. I think the fact that you call yourself a Polish is an absurd idea. You have no idea ..... You should call yourself serf Polsov because it is the truth about core of your identity and many others. To claim to be a Pole by default is sick jock - specially that you believe it yourself ! I-S ( is not personal)

♂

Jul 27, 10, 12:02 #14

Ironside:

I think the fact that you call yourself a Polish is an absurd idea. You have no idea .....

Can you explain why not caring about a place that is full of non Poles makes you not Polish? Can you explain why focusing on the people that here now instead of a couple of villages full of old foreigners is important? I mean, Poland isn't exactly hurting in the "run down village and dilapidated roads" department. Going to ask for more EU funds to fix it when you get it? What benefit would it have other than massaging a battered ego?

By the way, I'm available to explain satire on the weekends. Don't worry, I'll speak slowly.

ZiemowitThreads: 10 Posts: 1,063 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 12:06 #15
Ironside: I think the fact that you call yourself a Polish is an absurd idea. You have no idea ..... You should call yourself serf Polsov because it is the truth about core of your identity I think the fact that you go into personal insults instead of telling any arguments against someone's views means that you are a fool without knowing about it ...

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 12:10 #16
Ziemowit: instead of a couple of villages full of old foreigners is important? 5% of the Berussian population is polish thats a but more then a couple of villages full of old foreigners

♂

Edited by: Ironside Jul 27, 10, 12:16 #17

convex:

I'm available to explain satire on the weekends.

what do you wanna know?

convex:

Don't worry, I'll speak slowly.

speak through your teeth, cherish them, may not last long ...

convex:

Can you explain why not caring about a place that is full of non Poles makes you not Polish?

Its not only that ....I would have to write an essay to explain it to the foreigner.

convex:

I mean, Poland isn't exactly hurting in the "run down village and dilapidated roads" department. Going to ask for more EU funds to fix it when you get it

That is the different kettle of fish, as for run down villages and dilapidated roads they are rule not exception in the world, even in USA you can find fine examples of it!
As for EU funds, as far as I'm concerned this is a bait on the hook, it cost Poland more to be EU member. They can shove it .....I was voting against accession, and fund should be at last three time bigger(on the principle of equality ).
First of all Poland should get government working for her benefit, otherwise all consideration will go don the drain.

What benefit would it have other than massaging a battered ego?

strategical
political
and do not understudy ego
last but not least - there is globally more people less land,
justice - wouldn't you try to get back land, well house of your family, forcibly stolen from you? I bet you would...

♂

Edited by: convex Jul 27, 10, 12:21 #18

Ironside:

Its not only that ....I would have to write an essay to explain it to the foreigner.

No, it's because you can't explain it.

I do agree with you on Poland joining the EU. Huge millstone for advanced countries.

Yea, in fact, when I'm driving around the German and Swiss countryside, I'm constantly reminded of how things are falling apart and everything looks run down and dirty..

Ironside:

justice - wouldn't you try to get back land, well house of your family, forcibly stolen from you? I bet you would...

What was stolen from you?

♂

Jul 27, 10, 12:29 #19

Ziemowit:

into personal insults instead

is not insult, is not personally against you, its against attitude presented by you, and widespread in Poland.
I'm only saying that is not attitude which would found understanding in pre-war generation.
Its not thinking of free people is attitude of serfs.
Well you are offended so you wont be listening to me, now!
Sorry, you can call me fool, remember that - one man fool is another prophet!
Cool down and think about it! Your attitude is not set in stone!You can always change!

I-S ( not that I call myself prophet, but I'm speaking the truth )

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Edited by: Czarnkow1940 Jul 27, 10, 12:30 #20
Ironside: wouldn't you try to get back land, well house of your family, forcibly stolen from you? I bet you would... That is the past if kresy was to become part of Poland or a single state.We would have ot accept that there are Belorussians and Ukrainians living and learn to live with them it wouldnt be far to kick them out.

♂

Jul 27, 10, 12:43 #21

convex:

What was stolen from you?

from my country

convex:

No, it's because you can't explain it.

Well, mister 'knowAll", you explain it to me !
(I would say more but if you want to learn you kneel - you obviously think yourself wiser, so I will not waste my time)

convex:

I do agree with you on Poland joining the EU. Huge millstone for advanced countries.

Exactly! Poland needed to sort out her problems, stabilise, have a time to grow - not to be bounded by EU regulation, norms and expectations at the same time opening her marked for EU country;s goods.
Poland paid for EU membership !
As for huge millstone - doubt it ! Freedom of movement was common in middle-ages, only regulations and control is new!

convex:

Yea, in fact, when I'm driving around the German and Swiss countryside, I'm constantly reminded of how things are falling apart and everything looks run down and dirty.

Oh yes ! and those country's constitute most of the world! I see you have typical American education :) ever heard about geography ?

♂

Jul 27, 10, 12:50 #22

Ironside:

from my country

no, from you. you're getting all worked up. what was stolen from you?

Ironside:

Well, mister 'knowAll", you explain it to me !

alright, you can't explain it. fair enough...

Ironside:

Exactly! Poland needed to sort out her problems, stabilise, have a time to grow - not to be bounded by EU regulation, norms and expectations at the same time opening her marked for EU country;s goods.

yup.

Ironside:

Oh yes ! and those country's constitute most of the world! I see you have typical American education :) ever heard about geography ?

You're right, how silly to compare Poland to developed countries, that's just unfair. I understand now though. Yes, Polish villages look a bit better than Kazakh villages. The roads are much better than in Liberia.

Aim high, right?

Czarnkow1940Threads: 11 Posts: 167 Joined: Mar 5, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 12:52 #23
convex: what was stolen from you? A soviet stole my vodka while i was sleeping I want it back ;)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Jul 27, 10, 13:14 #24
convex: Aim high, right? Try USA, Ireland, Spain - get real ! convex: you're getting all worked up. Its not about me ! I can renounce my right if Poland will get back her land! convex: no, from you. land and house and workshop and orchard convex: alright, you can't explain it. fair enough. Post-communism: Emerging Enigma (1999) you read it and we can talk

♂

Edited by: convex Jul 27, 10, 13:23 #25

Ironside:

Try USA, Ireland, Spain - get real !

Yea, US, Ireland, and Spain. All in better condition than the Polish countryside. To think otherwise is to be delusional.

Ironside:

Its not about me ! I can renounce my right if Poland will get back her land!

Who will get the land? Who's Poland? Is she hot?

The Russians already gave it to Belarus. Poland fought for it, and lost.

Ironside:

land and house
and workshop
and orchard

That must put you at what, 90?

Ironside:

Post-communism: Emerging Enigma (1999)

Good stuff, will check it out.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 13:33 #26
Czarnkow1940: Is that a issue? Yes it is they don't want to be Polish and have a different culture.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 27, 10, 13:41 #27
convex: All in better condition than the Polish countryside. generally maybe, but my point is those country's have a lot of the run down places. convex: The Russians already gave it to Belarus. Poland fought for it, and lost. time to get even ! convex: That must put you at what, 90? very funny ! Where are you from in States ?

♂

Jul 27, 10, 14:13 #28

Ironside:

very funny !
Where are you from in States ?

So nothing was actually stolen from you I take it? You're trying to right some historical wrong? I think a big problem is this "we" mentality. Usually when I talk to nationalists, they somehow think they were part of history. Remember when "we" saved France? Remember when "we" fought the Nazis in Warsaw? Remember how "we" stood up to the police for our rights?

Ironside:

generally maybe, but my point is those country's have a lot of the run down places.

The entire point was that Poland is already struggling with a run down infrastructure, it doesn't exactly need more.

♂

Jul 27, 10, 14:20 #29

convex:

So nothing was actually stolen from you I take it?

personally ? you oversimplify it a big time!

convex:

we" mentality.

well, we or not we - people are grouped in country's or tribes - all the same !
You can theorize all you like because your country has no such problems - quite opposite I would said1!

convex:

The entire point was that Poland is already struggling with a run down infrastructure, it doesn't exactly need more.

Both issues have no bearings on each other, run down infrastructure can be deal with or not regardless of few hundred square kilometres more or less!

♂

Jul 27, 10, 14:24 #30

Ironside:

personally ? you oversimplify it a big time!

It is simple. If you want to fight historical wrongs, why stop there? What is the criteria?

Ironside:

well, we or not we - people are grouped in country's or tribes - all the same !

Right, and weak people like to think of themselves as heroes based on what their countrymen achieved in the past.

Ironside:

Both issues have no bearings on each other, run down infrastructure can be deal with or not regardless of few hundred square kilometres more or less!

Of course it does, because it addresses the reality of what is on the table here. Take run down land and kick people off it so that.... So you can move Poles onto it? Just a quick note, Poles are already leaving the countryside in droves here. There's no shortage of run down countryside...

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Meet Polish People at PF!	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 21:10 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com