Where does Poland, the people of Poland stand with the Palestine/Israel issue

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: sjam Nov 6, 09, 20:45 #31
time means: hezbollah? Jolly nice chaps! Hezbollah are jolly good in the cannabis trade, controlling the growing and smuggling of the drug from its Lebanese bases!

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Nov 6, 09, 20:46 #32

King Sobieski:

i think the solution is located somewhere in monty pythons "meaning of life".

What? Pi55 off he's been a naughty boy?

Torq:

I did check a couple of Israeli forums and news portals and didn't find anything spiteful.

Probably because your average Israeli doesnt even think about Poland..thats not meant offensive, its just probably the truth, the old feelings are probably subsiding.

Torq:

I can't speak for all Polish people, but I am and always was 100% pro-Israel.

But dont you have any pitty for the Palestinians who have had land systematically taken from them and pushed further and further out and are living like refugees?

I am pretty much pro-Isreal, but I wouldnt say 100% Maybe if big fat rich american and european born jews stayed where they are and didnt go back to what they seem to call "the home land" then it would probably be a better place, less people scrambling for what little territory there is, the Arabs have rights too.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 20:59 #33

ShelleyS:

But dont you have any pitty for the Palestinians who have had land systematically taken from them and pushed further and further out and are living like refugees?

But you see, Shelley, Israel's "occupation" would never have existed if not for the Arab
desire to destroy the Jewish state over and over again from the very beginning and they
elected Hamas who readily admits to never recognizing Israel's right to exist and vowes
to destroy the country.

Sure, I have pity for poor people being driven from their homes and living like refugees
but I don't blame Israel for those people's fate.

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,767 Joined: Jun 20, 09 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 21:04 #34
Torq: Do you hate Jews as much as you hate Poles, or maybe your hatred towards them isn't that big? No. Maybe you will force them to wear little yellow stars again.

still_wisherThreads: 7 Posts: 186 Joined: Mar 9, 08 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 21:12 #35
Torq: I don't blame Israel for those people's fate. why should you ! when you have a bed to sleep ! strange that Israel the one who decided to give them this fate, actully why not , when no one wants to stop it and all this big support from mama America !!

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 21:16 #36

RevokeNice:

No. Maybe you will force them to wear little yellow stars again.

"You" will force them (...) "again"?

LOL I've always known that you're a retard, Harvey, but the level of your
idiocy never ceases to amaze me :-)

still_wisher:

why should you ! when you have a bed to sleep ! strange that Israel the one who decided to give them this fate, actully why not , when no one wants to stop it and all this big support from mama America !!

Those people are paying the price for the lunacy of their leaders and the political
choices that they make. They could have had their own country looooong time ago,
but instead of this they chose war and hatred over and over again. If you choose
war and you lose, you will eventually face consequences.

♂

Edited by: still_wisher Nov 6, 09, 21:24 #37

Torq:

If you choose
war and you lose - you will eventually face consequences.

what kind of war you are talking about ? because if it's war ,there are always lost in both sides ! logic ! like war between Egypt and Israel 73 or before ! but between Israel and Palestine ! common Israel is taking lands , souls , homes and lifes !! all the time with no limit and with no sign about when this greedy will end ! after Palestine what is next ?

RevokeNiceThreads: 21 Posts: 2,767 Joined: Jun 20, 09 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 21:25 #38
Torq: You" will force them (...) "again"? Many thousands of Poles aided and abetted the Nazis in killing Jews. Torq: LOL I've always known that you're a retard, Harvey, but the level of your idiocy never ceases to amaze me You lie with the dogs, you get fleas. Maybe I spend too much time around Polish bulletheads.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 21:33 #39

Torq:

But you see, Shelley, Israel's "occupation" would never have existed if not for the Arab
desire to destroy the Jewish state over and over again from the very beginning and they
elected Hamas who readily admits to never recognizing Israel's right to exist and vowes
to destroy the country.

Oh please....the Poles fighted the German settlers also quite hard and long if they like to remember too, even proud of it.
You should support the Palis for that similiarity alone!

Since when is it the fault of the occupied to suffer an occupation???

Torq:

If you choose
war and you lose, you will eventually face consequences.

Palestine was still a third world country as the Israelis began their take over with support of the whole western world and with the weapons of a modern world...totally disunited they never knew what hit them as all these pale strangers from another planet began to stream into their land.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 21:33 #40

still_wisher:

what kind of war are you talking about?

Look, palestinian arabs elected Hamas - an organisation who readily admits to never
recognizing Israel's right to exist and vowes to destroy the country, that's hardly
a sign that they want peace with Israel. Or maybe you claim that there is a peace
in Israel? OK, then...

still_wisher:

after Palestine what is next?

It depends on what you call "Palestine" - that's a subject that would merit an entire
new thread and I'm not sure if I could be arsed explaining all the history of Middle
East conflict to you, Still_Wisher.

The author of this thread asked the people of Poland which side of the conflict
they support and I stated that I support Israel, that's all.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 21:37 #41
Torq: I stated that I support Israel, that's all. Why?

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Edited by: Salomon Nov 6, 09, 21:43 #42

Where does Poland, the people of Poland stand with the Palestine/Israel issue

Officialy Polish goverment has good contacts with both Israel and Palestine ... durring Polish presidency in EU ... Poland is going to support two states solution - what means independence for palestine.

As to Israel - in Poland people don't debate about it ... it sins't popular issue when it comes to politicians... so it isn't part of mainstream debate.

still_wisherThreads: 7 Posts: 186 Joined: Mar 9, 08 ♂	Edited by: still_wisher Nov 6, 09, 21:44 #43
Bratwurst Boy: Why? probably because he had a couple of beers with israelian guys when he visited israel ! or because he is jew !

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 21:46 #44

Bratwurst Boy:

Since when is it the fault of the occupied to suffer an occupation???

Of all people on this forum, you shouldn't ask that question, BB.

Germany suffered occupation by USA, Britain, France and Soviet Union and
it was completely their fault. They started the war, lost it and had to face
the consequences (the occupation, refugees and all that).

Bratwurst Boy:

Palestine was still a third world country as the Israelis began their take over with support of the whole western world and with the weapons of a modern world...totally disunited they never knew what hit them as all these pale strangers from another planet began to stream into their land.

A very poetic description, but not entirely true. Really lads - it's Friday evening, I had
a hard week at work and I really couldn't be arsed tackling such a heavy issue right
now. I read a lot on the matter and with time I developped pro-Israel point of view,
which I might one day present in a separate thread.

Bratwurst Boy:

Why?

A mixture of knowledge (45%), logic (45%) and personal preference and sympathy (10%).

Satisfied? ;)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 21:47 #45
still_wisher: or because he is jew ! That I could understand but he isn't...I'm quite sure of this!

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 21:49 #46
still_wisher: probably because he had a couple of beers with an israelian guys when he visited israel! I've never been to Israel (I would like to go one day though - to see all the Christian holy places). or because he is jew! :-D

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 21:50 #47

Torq:

Germany suffered occupation by USA, Britain, France and Soviet Union and
it was completely their fault. They started the war, lost it and had to face
the consequences (the occupation, refugees and all that).

Well, it wasn't seen as occupation for very long, remember??? Both Germany's became very quickly valued allies in their blocks.
And in the West the occupation not at least ensured a relatively quick rebuilding....compare that to the Palis!
Not to mention that they didn't had a thing to do with what happened in WWII in Europe...

Torq:

I read a lot on the matter and with time I developped pro-Israel point of view,
which I might one day present in a separate thread.

There is not much to discuss I think....

Torq:

I've never been to Israel (I would like to go one day though - to see
all the Christian holy places).

Don't tell me you are an evangelical nutter?
With such "friends" Israel needs no enemies....

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 21:55 #48

Bratwurst Boy:

Well, it wasn't seen as occupation for very long, remember???

That's beacuse Germans after 1945 didn't want to continue the war (like palestinian arabs
want to) they didn't refuse the France or Poland their right to existence (like Hamas does
towards Israel) and they didn't elect Nazis to power to continue the struggle (like palestinian
arabs elected Hamas).

Bratwurst Boy:

Don't tell me you are an evangelical nutter?

I'm Roman-Catholic through and through.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 21:59 #49

Torq:

That's beacuse Germans after 1945 didn't want to continue the war

Because the Germans had no reason to.

I'm again and again astounished about the heights of bigotry I encounter with Poles. You, especially you, always touting their braveness, their will to fight against all odds, to never give up, born freedom fighters, YOU of all people should feel WITH the Palis...you were once in the exactly same situation!

Why should they give up? They are in the right! They have nothing to give, it's the Israelis with all their modern military might who are the only ones who can and have to give something for peace, THEY are the foreign settlers...not the poor sods in the Gaza ghetto who have not much more then stones to throw at modern tanks and jets.

Why didn't the Poles just give up '39 and all the centuries before as Germans tried to dominate them???

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 22:06 #50

Bratwurst Boy:

YOU of all people should feel WITH the Palis...you were once in the exactly same situation!

I believe that Poles have much more in common (as regards history, culture,
education, religion etc. with Jews than with palestinian arabs).

Bratwurst Boy:

They are in the right!

That's debatable - we would have to go back to the times of the division
of the lands of British palestinian mandate into Palestine and Transjordan
and consequent events, but as I said before - that's a huge subject that
would merit a separate thread.

Why didn't the Poles just give up '39 and all the centuries before as Germans tried to dominate them???

Don't make such comparison, BB.

When Jews were expulsed from Palestine, those lands were under Roman occupation
and after that under Ottoman Empire (not the arab) rule for centuries. You can't
compare that to the struggle of Poles against Germans in the space of 1000 thousand
years on the core Polish territory.

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Nov 6, 09, 22:09 #51

Torq:

I believe that Poles have much more in common (as regards history, culture,
education, religion etc. with Jews than with palestinian arabs).

Oh...wait...let get this clear, freedom and independence for Poles and Jews but not for Palis???
Do you mean that to say?

Torq:

that's a huge subject that
would merit a separate thread.

Actually it's quite easy (for anybody with a healthy feeling for justice that is).

still_wisherThreads: 7 Posts: 186 Joined: Mar 9, 08 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 22:12 #52
Torq: with Jews than with palestinian arabs). the word Palestinian is not enough to know who we are talking about ?!! or you have to add arabs everytime , because it's some how showing why do you like Israel ! or oh maybe someone dosent know that they are arabs :)

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 22:12 #53

Bratwurst Boy:

Oh...wait...let get this clear, freedom and independence for Poles and Jews but not for Palis???
Do you mean that to say?

You know very well that it's not what I meant.

They WERE offered independence, but they chose WAR. When palestinian arabs
stop electing Hamas (who vow to destroy Israel and refuse them their right to
existence) and show a little bit of good will then I'm quite sure that they will
again be offered independence.

still_wisher:

the word Palestinian is not enough to know who we are talking about ?!! or you have to add arabs everytime

Why do you have a problem with "palestinian arabs"? That's who they are.
There is no substantial difference in ethnicity, religion and culture between
Palestinian arabs, Egyptian arabs, Syrian arabs or Jordan arabs - they are
arabs so that's what I call them.

OK - very well, if you want it so much, I will simply call them "Arabs".

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 22:18 #54

Torq:

They WERE offered independence, but they chose WAR. When palestinian arabs
stop electing Hamas (who vow to destroy Israel and refuse them their right to
existence) and show a little bit of good will then I'm quite sure that they will
again be offered independence.

You've got to be kidding!

The Palis live in overcrowded Ghettos in now only tiny strips from what was once their own land and what the Jews left them to live in and you demand "good will" from them FIRST????

You can't be serious!

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Nov 6, 09, 22:20 #55

Torq:

They WERE offered independence, but they chose WAR.

it's their own LAND !!!

Torq:

When palestinian arabs
stop electing Hamas (who vow to destroy Israel and refuse them their right to
existence) and show a little bit of good will then I'm quite sure that they will
again be offered independence

Hamas Hamas Hamas !!! what is exactly you want from them to do or to say ?? they took their land , they started this "war" and 1st bullet came from israel !! and the respond was stones!! please make some sense

MEMBER ♂

Nov 6, 09, 22:20 #56

Bratwurst Boy:

You've got to be kidding!

No, I'm not.

Arabs started aggressive war against Israel one after another, over and over
again with the aim to wipe the Jewish state off the face of the Earth, and still
Israel was willing to conduct peace talks and negotiate with them
It's only logical that when Arabs in Palestine will be willing to make peace with
Israel, they will again be given a chance for their independence.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 22:22 #57

Torq:

Arabs started aggressive

Erm...when did it start? Do you know that?

Torq:

Arabs started aggressive war against Israel one after another, over and over
again with the aim to wipe the Jewish state off the face of the Earth, and still
Israel was willing to conduct peace talks and negotiate with them
It's only logical that when Arabs in Palestine will be willing to make peace with
Israel, they will again be given a chance for their independence.

That is so wrong, I get pimples just from reading that!
Did you had a brainwashing some time???

That reads as if Hitler was all the time true and the Poles were the real warmonger in WWII and deserved what happened to them!
Maybe all a matter of interpreting facts...

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 6, 09, 22:28 #58

Bratwurst Boy:

That is so wrong, I get pimples just from reading that!

What exactly do you deny? That Arabs started numerous aggresive wars against Israel
or that they vowed to wipe the Jewish state off the face of the Earth or that Hamas
denies Israel its right to existence? What exactly gives you those "pimples"?

Bratwurst Boy:

Did you had a brainwashing some where?

No. I simply posess the ability to read with understanding and draw logical
conclusions from what I read instead of relying on what politically correct,
leftist, European press is force-feeding our brains with.

Bratwurst Boy:

That reads as if Hitler was all the time true and the Poles were the real warmonger in WWII and deserved what happened to them!

I can't believe you made that comparison. I don't recall Israelis trying to wipe out
all Arabs, closing them in concentration camps and putting them into gas chambers.
I also don't recall Poles wanting to wipe Germany off the face of the Earth and
refusing Germans the right to their very existence.

Completely wrong comparison...

still_wisherThreads: 7 Posts: 186 Joined: Mar 9, 08 ♂	Nov 6, 09, 22:34 #59
Torq: Arabs started numerous aggresive wars against Israel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjoFEy9LK7E

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 6, 09, 22:35 #60

Torq:

Completely wrong comparison...

Absolutely right comparison!
I can put you easily in the boots of the Palis and the other way around - the perfect comparison!
And you would make a brave pali resistance fighter, I'm sure of it!

Torq:

That Arabs started numerous aggresive wars against Israel
or that they vowed to wipe the Jewish state off the face of the Earth or that Hamas
denies Israel its right to existance? What exactly gives you those "pimples"?

The Arabs started NOTHING Torq!
The Jews streamed after WWII into this land, with the support of a guilty feeling UN with the support of first world weaponry, first world diplomacy, first world technology....
They squatted there, settled down, cleansed ethnically big parts of the land from Palis (nakba)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day
and then put their flag into Pali land and declared it Israel.

When Germans tried to do this you would accept that??? Would you call your compatriots agressors against german settlers too??? No? But that is exactly what you demand from the Palis...giving up, rolling over and additionally "being good"!
Being grateful to Israel for living in tiny Ghettos instead of their own land!

That is so sick!

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