The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 69

Poland and Russia in military alliance - Is that even possible? At least temporary?


Harry
17 Apr 2014 #31
The inconvenient truth is that Poland does need Russian gas

Qatar might say otherwise.

Whats the deal with it being hard for Poles to get Visas for U.S.A?

Blame the idiots who keep applying when they have zero chance of getting a visa.
legend 3 | 660
17 Apr 2014 #32
I can see the hostility already- The inconvenient truth is that Poland does need Russian gas,..

I agree with some of that and this lfpr.lt/uploads/File/2012-27/Bielen.pdf

talks about the gas issue and other things. Uncle Sam wont give something unless you lose something in return.

If the US really cared about Poland, they would be handing some stuff like they do to Israel or Saudis. Polands army would be stronger,

theyd allow some heavier gadgets, the VISA problem wouldnt exist, they wouldnt be sending CIA there to spy on even friendly countries.

It is true that a significant percentage of Poles dislike the Russia (understandable especially because of historical aggressiveness) but I think after a couple generations this has potential to change). The key is for more exchange of information on culture. There are some Poles who have less problems with Russia too.

Ideally Poland should have neatural or friendly neighbours. This creates peace which allows time to focus on other issues.
Szalawa 2 | 240
17 Apr 2014 #33
Qatar might say otherwise

Qatar is rather far and small and there is likely to be demand for their oil from other countries too. So no, Qatar can not provide alll the energy needs for Poland
jon357 74 | 21,770
17 Apr 2014 #34
demand for their oil

They have gas rather than oil and yes, most is already sold under existing agreements. Any on the open market is subject to market price fluctuations.
Wulkan - | 3,203
18 Apr 2014 #35
then the only way for Poland to side with Russia is if the west push an anti Polish agenda.

why would they repete mistakes from the cold war times?
OP Crow 155 | 9,025
18 Apr 2014 #36
When are you going to finally comprehend that Poland doesn't want to have anything to do with Russia?

what if comes to it that Russia needs Poland, no matter in which kind of situation?

Are you really and absolutely sure that future of Poland could be brighter if there is no Russia? Do you really believe that Polish so called friends from the rest of the Catholic and Protestant countries, if they ever finish with Russia, intend to allow Poland to replace Russia, no matter Poland is Catholic in its great majority? Do you really believe that its about just religious question for the west of Europe? Are you that naive that you can`t comprehend that west of Europe play against all Slavs, no matter their religion. Do you think that if west of Europe, manage to destroy Russia, won`t move to finish with Slavic Poland once and for all in order to finally destroy last memory that Slavs ever existed? or, in best case, we can expect that west of Europe, once when last Slav extinct, start to behave as modern-day USA which now hypocritically glorifies and speak nice of native American Indians and their culture, now when they are almost all of them destroyed in genocide or assimilated.

If west of Europe and USA ever get rid of the Russia, you know how would they reward Poland? With the cold knife in the back. That`s how
R.U.R.
18 Apr 2014 #37
I would say that Poles and Russians share mutual dislike, Poles set Moscow on fire and the fire consumed large part of Moscow. Moscow at the time (17c) was a very big city , they say more than

Rome at the time. In Russia they still celebrate expullsion of Polish occupation forces from Moscow in November 1612 as a national day. So it is mutual.

But the difference between Poland and Russia lies deeper. Russia is a Eurasian country and a very specific civilisation as such. Poland is a European country (and for those who knows history it

is clear that Poland is more western country then Germany, for exaple).
The differences between Poland and Europe as a whole and Russia will only be increasing with the passage of time only blind people do not see this process .

Ukrainians and Russians are very close nations. Too many Ukrainians and Russians have family and friends in each other's countries. (Probably Norvegians and Swedes are more closely related)

Crow, what are you talking about ? What slavic union are you dreaming here?
You were not able to preserve your Yugoslavia but you have a vision of a union between the Pacific and the Oder river

Your imagination has no boundaries, I must say
OP Crow 155 | 9,025
18 Apr 2014 #38
European country (and for those who knows history it
is clear that Poland is more western country then Germany, for exaple).

those who knows history understand that are both- Germans and Poles, in general, of Sarmatian (read Serbian) origin and, that are Russians generally of the other Proto-Slavic branch- Scythians. Key difference between these two Proto-Slavic branches was that Sarmatians were more sedentary, while Scythians longer lived as steppe horde culture. But, tribes of those two branches lived side by side in mutual interdependence until the early middle age.

/just small digression on history/

You were not able to preserve your Yugoslavia but you have a vision of a union between the Pacific and the Oder river

Yugoslavia was destroyed by the EU and NATO

Crow,please keep on topic in your own thread
Archyski - | 44
18 Apr 2014 #39
Maybe there should be an alliance between PL and RUS.

US spent tons of $$ in Afghanistan and Iraq, and yet they didn't win.

The russian forces are occupying half a country without firing bullets........
Szalawa 2 | 240
18 Apr 2014 #40
and for those who knows history it
is clear that Poland is more western country then Germany

Really? that statement makes me believe you don't know Polish history. Are you referring to the times that Germans and Russians allied against Poles? because I am just confused. Look up Sarmatism.

those who knows history understand that are both- Germans and Poles, in general, of Sarmatian (read Serbian) origin and, that are Russians generally of the other Proto-Slavic branch- Scythians

Crow, Germans who are of Sarmatian origin (R1a) are most likely to be partial Polabians that weren't killed of when the German/Frankish people Invaded that region during the crusades. Polish people have highest percent of R1a of all Slavs, and this makes them (genetically speaking) a lot closer to Russia then Germany.

Back To Russia and Poland forming an alliance- If these countries ever go on board with each other Crows Slavic Union could be a reality- All you need is Poland, Russia and any South Slav country ( I think Bulgaria is more stable then Former Yugoslavia) and the rest will follow.

Problem is Poland would have to abandon its western ties which is a bad move, so I conclude that Poland and Russia can only ally with each other is if Poland would get attacked by a western country and Russia came to the defense of Poland instead of invading it from the other side.
legend 3 | 660
18 Apr 2014 #41
I think its possible that significant portion of East Germans are Germanized Slavs back when the Obotrites, Veleti were around. Only the Sorbs keep culture though.

A Union implies merging of countries and lose of national identities. This wouldnt make nationalists happy unless they are pannationalists.
Thats why alliance is better as opposed to union.

At the beginning Poland needs to work on the Visegrad group and get some additional countries to join.
Maybe in a few decades if the Russians act nicer serious dialogue can occur. The conflict in Ukraine doesnt help, but thats caused by multiple parties not just Russia.
McDouche 6 | 284
18 Apr 2014 #42
I think its possible that significant portion of East Germans are Germanized Slavs back when the Obotrites

Everyone in central Europe is mixed. East Germans have some Slavic ancestry but they are mostly of Germanic/Celtic extraction.
Harry
19 Apr 2014 #44
The russian forces are occupying half a country without firing bullets........

That's not entirely true, is it?
OP Crow 155 | 9,025
19 Apr 2014 #45
At the beginning Poland needs to work on the Visegrad group and get some additional countries to join.

Visegrad Group is vital for the survivor of Poland.

On the short run, this with Ukraine greatly complicate situation because negotiations of Visegrad Group with Ukraine went hand in hand with talks with Serbia (and via Serbia with Montenegro). Interests of Poland was to that way secure access to the warm seas (waters), what is, as we all know, primordial condition when one regional country have plans to become bigger factor. You would note that, speaking of region, in case with Croatia, Poland can`t expect to achieve political and military points. Its German zone of control and Poland needs to hold her fingers far from political and military influence there. Only touristic interests of Poland could be eventually satisfied in Croatia, nothing else. Be advised, traditionally, whenever Poland wanted to rise her head, no matter being under the pressure of Russia or from the west of Europe, Poland relied on Serbia. Its old strategic partnership and goes deep in past, what i know, since time immemorial. It goes from time when ancient Polish warlords wanted to secure transport of amber trade from Baltic to Mediterranean via Balkan, all the way to the situation when Serbs played role of the military elite in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

In any case, on the example of Ukraine we see how interests of Poland and EU/NATO leading powers differ. Where Poland needed peace, west of Europe and USA needed troubles. Old regime of Ukraine was maybe slower in internal reforms of the country but politically was more balanced between Poland and Russia. Russia tolerated formation of joint Polish-Ukrainian military force UKRPOLBAT, what on the other side wasn `t under direct NATO jurisdiction and NATO didn`t like it. When Ukraine was destabilized as country, official Kiev stooped to balance between Poland and Russia and simple fall under direct control of Germany, USA, Britain and France. Poland was automatically out of the game. Think about it.

But, on the long run, we now have clear situation. If we presume that one day Visegrad Group could turn to be new Commonwealth, Crimea in Ukraine and all regions along Ukrainian Black See coast, populated with Russian and strongly pro-Russian population, could represent main obstacle in Russian opposition to the formation of Commonwealth around Poland, from countries that exist between Russia and west of Europe, from Baltic to Balkan and Black see. See, NATO/EU pressure on Ukraine may result in situation, ironically, that on the long run, Russia (after completely satisfied with situation in Ukraine) has even greater interests to support strengthening of Poland.

In any case, i am absolutely sure, situation in Ukraine, definitely and once and for all, shows Serbia as primary Poland`s partner on the Polish way to become European power thru transformation of Visegrad Group into the embryo of new Commonwealth. Serbia (via other Serbian land- Montenegro) has direct access to the Mediterranean warm waters.

Now, let us also don`t forget Bulgaria. Way to Bulgaria, strategically and geographically also goes via Serbia. So, i expect that in days that coming, let`s say very soon, Poland start more and more to invest in Serbia and Bulgaria and to talk about those two countries in its mass media. That, if there is at least little fire of independence still live in Polish intelligentsia, elite and politics.
4 eigner 2 | 831
19 Apr 2014 #46
whole lot more than you ever will be able to

can only agree with you, here, LOL
Archyski - | 44
19 Apr 2014 #47
That's not entirely true, is it?

Of course it isn't, have a sense of humor. But they are gettin' hands of Ukraine without the presence of a real war.
R.U.R.
20 Apr 2014 #48
A significant portion of Poland was incorporated into the Russian Empire in XIX c.
And we can count four polish uprisings against Russia.
And this means that Poland and Russia are incompatible. The difference is too large

Crow, about the stub in the back you can read in "Soviet invasions in Poland 1929" ( can be fount in the net)

Must be "Soviet invasions in Poland 1939" , Sorry.
Archyski - | 44
20 Apr 2014 #49
During the potsdam agreement, it was STALIN who pushed the border far more to the west than the english and americans had in mind... Making Poland a bigger country even that churchill didn't wanted that. I know that Stalin took more than he gave, but thanks to him Poland have a place in the central of europe which makes a lot of more sense than the Lwów area.

So the russians aren't only to make our days bad...
Harry
20 Apr 2014 #50
Sorry but you're talking utter bollocks there. The first world leader to propose that Poland's western border is where it is now was Sikorski. His plan was supported by the British, largely as a way of preventing that as most of Poland had been part of the Russian empire, post-war Poland should become one of the republics of the USSR.
Archyski - | 44
20 Apr 2014 #51
World leader Sikorski who ?

Stalin wanted the border to be at the Oder river, which Churcill didn't wanted. But he wasn't the prime minister any longer during the final agreement.
Szalawa 2 | 240
20 Apr 2014 #52
Visegrad Group is vital for the survivor of Poland.

I think its interesting to look at the Intermarium, the Visegrad group can very well become this over time
iwp.edu/news_publications/detail/prof-chodakiewicz-delivers-lecture-on-the-intermarium
R.U.R.
21 Apr 2014 #53
In my opinion, the principle to take but not to give anything to

Poland meant a long term instabilty in this part of Europe and

Stalin understood this wery well, he wanted a lengthy period of

peace for rebuilding the USSR .
OP Crow 155 | 9,025
17 Oct 2014 #54
Merged: Should Poland change its policy on Russia and take more friendly stance?

Events in Europe accelerate and i have that feeling- that politics of official Poland goes in wrong direction.

As a Serbian, considering my (and of my people) deep warm feelings for Poland and Poles, i want to say that official Poland needs to change something. i beg officials of Poland.

Anyway, i am glad that my opinion isn`t isolated. Point is, politics of official Poland needs to serve to the Poles, not to outside powers. Russia can be partner. Poland isn`t destined to be in eternal conflict with Russia.

Spot this >>>

Poland Sees Reality

October 15, 2014

It seems certain of the Central European countries are not going along with Washington's desires to isolate Russia due to .... :

So let's consider Hungary, a NATO member whose prime minister recently named Putin's Russia as a political model to be emulated. Or NATO member Slovakia, whose leftist prime minister likened the possible deployment of NATO troops in his country to the Soviet invasion of 1968. Or NATO member Czech Republic, where the defense minister made a similar comparison and where the government joined Slovakia and Hungary in fighting the European Union's sanctions against Russia.

Then there is Poland, which until recently was leading the effort within NATO and the European Union to support Ukraine's beleaguered pro-Western government and punish Putin's aggression.

reformedlibertarian.com/blog/poland-sees-reality/

Long live Poland and Poles! Poland to Poles!

Regards from Serbia my sisters and brothers

letter to Admin

Dobri Pane Admine,

You know that i never question your wisdom, Pane. Just, i have suggestion and kindly ask.
These two threads should stay separated. Topic there isn`t same.
Thank you in advance.

Your loyal,
Crow
pawian 221 | 23,991
4 Mar 2024 #55
Poland and Russia in military alliance - Is that even possible? At least temporary?

The Russian ambassador complains about the Poles/Polesses in the latest interview:

The Russian ambassador also talked about whether the coming to power of a new government in Poland might affect relations with Russia. However, he said, so far "no significant changes have been recorded."- Let me remind you that our relations broke down in 2014 (this year, Russia illegally annexed the Ukrainian Crimea - ed.), when the liberal government of the current Prime Minister Tusk was in power. The function of the Minister of Foreign Affairs was also in the hands of the same person - Radosław Sikorski. So there is some continuity, said Sergei Andreev.According to the Russian diplomat, in recent years the government and opposition in Poland, just changing places in political games, have been competing with each other for who is "more anti-Russian and uncompromising towards Moscow." - They accuse each other of lack of decisiveness and tendency to compromise and make concessions. That's why not much has changed for us - neither when Law and Justice came to power at the end of 2015, nor when Tusk returned to lead the government coalition at the end of last year, Andreev said.
amiga500 4 | 1,520
5 Mar 2024 #56
about the Poles/Polesses

Pawian you vodka addled baboon, stop trying to transpose your new woke polish linguistics into English. There is no genitive case for nouns in English. It sounds ridiculous. Imagine having to write Americanlesses and Australianesses. You woke virtue signalling fools need to be put in the loony bin.

Besides when did the word 'Polacy' aquire a male genitive case. Maybe these idiots coming up with these notions should concentrate on more pressing matters, like global poverty and starvation?
amiga500 4 | 1,520
5 Mar 2024 #57
Should we have a separate genitive word for 'samochody;' if driven by a woman? lolzo
jon357 74 | 21,770
5 Mar 2024 #58
polish linguistics into English

Polesses just sounds daft. As he well knows, the English language isn't gendered and that is one of its strengths.

Australianesses

We have the Lionesses however that is a worthy exception. The whole point when genderising English is to create an exception like that either to praise, or like 'Manageress' to diminish or like 'hostess' to distinguish a role.
mafketis 36 | 10,694
5 Mar 2024 #59
here is no genitive case for nouns in English

The 'apostrophe s' works a bit like a genitive

The lion's mane.

My brother's house.

On the other hand it occurs at the boundary of the noun phrase and not on the head

"The King of England's throne" and not "*The King's of England throne"

But what does genitive have to do with the very unlovely coinage 'Poless'?

It adds unneeded and unwelcome specifically male meaning to 'Pole' (very much gender neutral already)

I'm not crazy about the Panie i Panowie tha'ts been creeping up lately (when Polish already had the far superior word Państwo)

In general I don't like creeping English lexicalization in Polish.... I really hate 'szczęśliwego nowego roku' (a real mouthful) instead of the simple and elegant 'do siego roku'.

On the other hand "Polki i Polacy" is possibly from German....
pawian 221 | 23,991
5 Mar 2024 #60
polish linguistics into English

But I already do it in the thread about Polish idioms. I can`t stop now. When you say A, you have to say B. :):):

There is no genitive case for nouns in English

You don`t know what you are talking about. Genitive refers to `s or of. :):):)

the English language isn't gendered Lionesses 'Manageress' 'hostess'

Plus actress, poetess, waitress etc etc.
Exactly, jon, English isn`t gendered. hahahaha buhahaha

PS. As you can easily assume, I am not convinced by your arguments above which means I will happily continue using my Polesses coz it is already a traditional usage originated in 2008. 16 years is a lot of time and what is more, I am a trendsetter!!!! Ha!!!

Anybody who objects to Polesses is an azhole. Simple. Ha!


Home / News / Poland and Russia in military alliance - Is that even possible? At least temporary?
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.