Poland Slavs NATO UN & Slavic Union.

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Jun 2, 11, 00:10 #1

I am a firm believer than Slavs being divided is always a bad thing.

I think any tensions with Poland & Russia is a bad thing.

Poland has been kind of pissing off Russia with U.S ties.

I think it is potentially a bad thing.

It could even end up to another war. Perhaps a war of Poland & the U.S against Russia.

Thati s all we need is millions of more dead Slavs.

We Slavs lost hundreds of millions in the begining of this century.

You had Stalin the Georgian kill up to 20 - 40 million Slavs.

You had Lenin the Volga German, Jew, Swede, Kalmyk who hated Russians & who was involved in the Russian civil war & Bolshevik revolution where 20-40 million slavs died as well.

You had Germans in 2 World wars kill another 30 - 60 million Slavs.

How many more Dead Slavs do we need from our foolish trust of the West as Poles?

The NATO countries didn't care about us. They just sent us to Soviet territory in Potsdam & Yalta where Poles were instantly put into Gulags.

Even more Russians & Ukrainains were put into Gulags by that vile Georgian Stalin.

Do we Poles really think Westerners care about us? When in America Blacks, Latinos ect get civil rights & promotion & support? While Poles get demonized with Polak Jokes?
Russians are also demonized in America.

Hatred of Poles & All Slavs & seems to be very in the West.

Even my Western European friends here in America talk down about Poles.

The other day I was talking to my Western European friend about how my dad grew up out of Poverty & Became wealthy. When I mentioned the Poverty my dad grew up in the South Bronx.
My friend responded "That is Polish"

Western Europeans almost always have this kind of non sense.

While mostr russians I have met have actually had more respect for Poles.

With NATO, UN, Ect it has only divided Slavs further. Of course these NATO & UN are closely tied to the N.W.O

NATO nations helped create & Empower the Soviet Union.

It was Germany during WW1 that sent the Bolsheviks with Half Volga German with supplies & funding to Russia to destroy Russia.

Even U.S President Woodrow Wilson sent Leon Trotsky to Russia to help Create the Soviet Union.

Even though Germany & the U.S fought in WW1. Guess what? Germany & Woodrow Wilson worked together to send the Bolsheviks to Russia to Destroy Russia.

Of course without that there would have not been a need for a Polish Soviet war.

It was the U.S & England which funded & backed the Soviets in WW2. Then they just handed them Poland. BUT, as many Poles who suffered under the Georgian Maniac Stalin even more Russians & Ukrainians suffered.

Without NATO nations there would have been no Soviet Union.

Westerners ( NATO ) Nations always play these dirty games.

NATO Nations like Britain even helped to fund Nazis.

NATO bombing Serbia when it was a civil war. Yet, NATO not going against the U.S who killed more Iraqis than Serbs did Bosnians & Albanians shows how hypocritical NATO is.

I think a Slavic Union might be needed for us Slavs to survive & be able to counter act the N.W.O Mentality of the West.

There is so much non sense it is ridiculous.

Even England after Wladyslaw Sikorski died England refused to give Poland the Documents.

Some even think England did do it.

With Russia Russia was under control of Stalin the Georgian maniac then.

But, The way England backstabbed us is ridiculous. Some of the Tensions with Russia are our fault.

But, Poles have been Loyal to England, The U.S, Germany, France ect when ever they needed us.

They repay us with backstabbings, Anti Polish propaganda, Even support our suffering.

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Jun 2, 11, 00:28 #2

I agree with most of the points. Poland needs to stop playing the western game and take care of its own interests in a more direct manner. Fucck the US and NATO they are one and the same. Slavs should work together and whatever the reality of relations is between us fact remains that we are very similar to each other and not to the west. Ties with US should be kept at a minimum because it is them who exploit us, but we should also continue relationship with nations such as Germany and others. Western Europe is not all that bad.

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Jun 2, 11, 01:28 #3

PolskiMoc:

I am a firm believer than Slavs being divided is always a bad thing.

People are always going to be divided for as long as there will be people who believe one group of people to be better than another group of people.

PolskiMoc:

I think any tensions with Poland & Russia is a bad thing.

I think you can walk your dog tomorrow or enjoy doing your job, if you prefer.

PolskiMoc:

I think it is potentially a bad thing.

You're not too optimistic, are you?

PolskiMoc:

It could even end up to another war. Perhaps a war of Poland & the U.S against Russia.

It also could not.

PolskiMoc:

Thati s all we need is millions of more dead Slavs.

I certainly don't need millions of dead Slavic people.

PolskiMoc:

We Slavs lost hundreds of millions in the begining of this century.

So did every other sub-group which happens to belong to humanity. Welcome to the club!

PolskiMoc:

You had Stalin the Georgian kill up to 20 - 40 million Slavs.

Because nobody had the balls to murder him.

PolskiMoc:

You had Lenin the Volga German, Jew, Swede, Kalmyk who hated Russians & who was involved in the Russian civil war & Bolshevik revolution where 20-40 million slavs died as well.

Because nobody had the balls to murder them.

PolskiMoc:

You had Germans in 2 World wars kill another 30 - 60 million Slavs.

Because they didn't have the balls to murder their psychotic leaders either. Just out of curiosity: Can you see a pattern emerge here?

PolskiMoc:

How many more Dead Slavs do we need from our foolish trust of the West as Poles?

We don't trust our politicians either, you know.

PolskiMoc:

The NATO countries didn't care about us. They just sent us to Soviet territory in Potsdam & Yalta where Poles were instantly put into Gulags.

NATO didn't exist back then. So is this bad NATO or bad Russia who put Polish people in Gulags? I'm sure you're bright enough.

PolskiMoc:

Even more Russians & Ukrainains were put into Gulags by that vile Georgian Stalin.

Yes, bad Russians. Bad NATO.

PolskiMoc:

Do we Poles really think Westerners care about us? When in America Blacks, Latinos ect get civil rights & promotion & support? While Poles get demonized with Polak Jokes?
Russians are also demonized in America.

So which is it? Bad NATO, bad Europe, bad Russia or bad America? Make up your friggin' mind will you?

PolskiMoc:

Hatred of Poles & All Slavs & seems to be very in the West.

I don't hate anyone in particular. I just hate the human race because it's obviously too stupid to learn from their mistakes. I wish I was an alien. Maybe I am!

PolskiMoc:

Even my Western European friends here in America talk down about Poles.

Probably because Polish people aren't always behaving like they're the total **** either.

PolskiMoc:

The other day I was talking to my Western European friend about how my dad grew up out of Poverty & Became wealthy. When I mentioned the Poverty my dad grew up in the South Bronx.
My friend responded "That is Polish"

People who make fun of you of your family might not be friends.

PolskiMoc:

Western Europeans almost always have this kind of non sense.

That's funny, because I could swear I'm reading a lot of non sense right now!

PolskiMoc:

While mostr russians I have met have actually had more respect for Poles.

So they've put you in Gulags because they wanted to make the rest of your fellow countrymen happier behind the Iron Curtain?

PolskiMoc:

With NATO, UN, Ect it has only divided Slavs further. Of course these NATO & UN are closely tied to the N.W.O

Oh dear.

PolskiMoc:

NATO nations helped create & Empower the Soviet Union.

Like I've said, I'm reading non sense, but it kills time and it makes me laugh, so thank you for entertaining me.

PolskiMoc:

It was Germany during WW1 that sent the Bolsheviks with Half Volga German with supplies & funding to Russia to destroy Russia.

Which obviously didn't work.

PolskiMoc:

Even U.S President Woodrow Wilson sent Leon Trotsky to Russia to help Create the Soviet Union.

I guess Leon Trotsky wasn't Russian?

PolskiMoc:

Even though Germany & the U.S fought in WW1. Guess what? Germany & Woodrow Wilson worked together to send the Bolsheviks to Russia to Destroy Russia.

So those Bolsheviks weren't Russian either?

PolskiMoc:

Of course without that there would have not been a need for a Polish Soviet war.

In case you haven't noticed, it was a world war. Just saying!

PolskiMoc:

It was the U.S & England which funded & backed the Soviets in WW2. Then they just handed them Poland. BUT, as many Poles who suffered under the Georgian Maniac Stalin even more Russians & Ukrainians suffered.

They backed the Soviets because the truth is that they needed another ally in order to defeat the Germans.

PolskiMoc:

Without NATO nations there would have been no Soviet Union.

I hope this question isn't too complicated for you: Does the Soviet Union still exist?

PolskiMoc:

Westerners ( NATO ) Nations always play these dirty games.

Correction: Elitists play dirty games and use their politicians to bully the working-class into another war.

PolskiMoc:

NATO Nations like Britain even helped to fund Nazis.

The people of those nations didn't.

PolskiMoc:

NATO bombing Serbia when it was a civil war. Yet, NATO not going against the U.S who killed more Iraqis than Serbs did Bosnians & Albanians shows how hypocritical NATO is.

It is, but don't try to tell me or anyone else how Slavic people are any better when you yourself talk about Stalin, who used to be very Slavic.

PolskiMoc:

I think a Slavic Union might be needed for us Slavs to survive & be able to counter act the N.W.O Mentality of the West.

I wouldn't worry about the West if I were you, because the West is currently destroying itself and its own people in the name of profit.

PolskiMoc:

There is so much non sense it is ridiculous.

True, but I don't think your non sense is any better.

PolskiMoc:

Even England after Wladyslaw Sikorski died England refused to give Poland the Documents.

That's politics for you, nothing to see here!

PolskiMoc:

Some even think England did do it.

Some people think I did it, but I'm not old enough and still a virgin, so don't worry about that!

PolskiMoc:

With Russia Russia was under control of Stalin the Georgian maniac then.

Yes, you need Slavic politicians to defend yourself from the evil West, don't you? Well, look how that turned out!

PolskiMoc:

But, The way England backstabbed us is ridiculous. Some of the Tensions with Russia are our fault.

Well, it's a start!

PolskiMoc:

But, Poles have been Loyal to England, The U.S, Germany, France ect when ever they needed us.

You know, nowhere in your whole post do I get the idea that you understand that all of Western Europe couldn't fight any country anymore. Why do you think the Americans and the Canadians went to our beaches? Because we could kick the Germans out ourselves? Because we were going to be able to fight off the Russians? Get real, will you?

PolskiMoc:

They repay us with backstabbings, Anti Polish propaganda, Even support our suffering.

Pease?

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Jun 2, 11, 02:14 #4

Oh boy (this place will be filled with flames in no time)...

Well PolishMoc I agree with almost everything. I have lived in Canada for over 20 years since moving from Europe with my family. Here its a bit more friendly than in the US. I live in Mississauga where there is a ton of Poles. Its basically Canadas version of Chicago (Mississauga/Toronto/Brampton).
We have somewhat of a voice here. For example in a Liberal stronghold, we had a conservative run called Lizon(sp?) and he beat the Liberals (Liberal=Democrat, Conservative=Republican just our versions are more left wing).

On occasions I definitely hear the same things you have. I had a German/Ukrainian friend (lots of mixes up here) and he said some of anti-Polish propaganda to me (funny enough he has an SS helmet lol).
"Poles are skinny, Poles are backward, stupid, etc" its spread across the western world (and eastern Europe as well).

You see there is pros and cons to the things Poland does. There is never just a good thing.
We have tried being allies with several countries in our history and it did not help much to the partitions of Poland and WWII.
We have been allied to various European nations so maybe it was time to ally to US (maybe thats the reasoning?)

For a lot of Poles everyone is enemy and for a lot of Poles we should make friends with anybody/everybody (for me both). Poles focus a lot on historical events and I do not think everyone will agree on Slavic Union (because of USSR). If WWII had not happened Poland would have 50,000,000 people and Russia + Ukraine + Belurus would have more people as well. We would be a more significant voice in Europe.

Poland is not the poorest, or the richest but we need money for our economy. That is part of the reason we are more western compared to other Eastern European countries. I would like a Slavic Union but I really have my doubts of it ever happening.

TrolbertThreads: - Posts: 38 Joined: Jun 1, 11 ♂	Jun 2, 11, 02:17 #5
legend: Oh boy (this place will be filled with flames in no time)... I'd say that's more or less the whole idea, yes.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jun 2, 11, 02:23 #6
PolskiMoc: Even my Western European friends here in America talk down about Poles. says it all really,another gobby plastic pole..................

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Jun 2, 11, 02:31 #7
PolskiMoc: I am a firm believer You are a slimy troll or some kid. Slavic - schmavic ! If you are talking business, then Russia as a strongest Slavic country should present their platform. So far there is nothing. Do you think that some other country is able to gather others around and built such confederation or union? Slim chance!

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Edited by: MediaWatch Jun 2, 11, 10:33 #8

PolskiMoc:

I am a firm believer than Slavs being divided is always a bad thing.

Polski,

With all due respect, I think you are getting a little carried away with your generalizations about West Europeans or Americans of West European descent or about Americans in general.

Sure there are some bad ones, but you have good and bad ones just like you have good and bad Poles.

I kind of have the feeling that you wear your Polish nationalistic feelings on your sleeve and probably always have your Polish nationalism on the tip of your tongue when you talk to other Americans. In my experiences, when fellow Americans see that someone else comes across as ethno-centric, they may eventually make a disparaging comment at their ancestry if they think they are too ethno-centric.

I have seen Italian Americans and German Americans and others get mocked when they get carried away in conversation about their ancestry. I'm not saying its right, but that's the way a lot of Americans feel. I can kind of see their viewpoint.

I have noticed that when African Americans get carried away with their "African heritage", they eventually get ridiculed from other Americans because other Americans start to feel they care more about their African heritage then their American heritage.

As an American, I think the way how people view you is by your individual interaction with them. If people respect you as an individual, they generally will respect your ancestral identity as well. On the rare occasion that I hear somebody ignorantly make an anti-Polish slur, I find that when I kindly tell them it comes from anti-Polish bigotry, they generally refrain from making further anti-Polish comments. A long time ago, I knew a guy who made anti-Polish jokes/slurs. When I kindly explained to him that they came from anti-Polish bigotry in the media, he seemed to respect me and appreciated my input on the matter. True story......he later became one of my best friends. Go figure.

As for people who use anti-Polish slurs to put you down no matter what, maybe they are actually just jerks and are not the type to be anybody's friends. I have found that people who make slurs about Polish people, don't stop with the Polish people.

Trolbert:

People who make fun of you of your family might not be friends.

Bingo!

This is true.

You have jerks in every society and country. Even if on the surface they act like "a friend". These people are actually frienemies ;)

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Jun 2, 11, 12:24 #9

The key question that Poles, and especially Poles, need to ask themselves is, 'Is representative government, as a key tenet of democracy, actually working properly?' I say especially because Poland is steeped in democratic traditions and people must shape the world through governments. Any potentially inflammatory political decision of sufficient magnitude should be put out to public opinion first. We have to live with the decisions of politicians and putting their subjects in the lion's den is hardly fair. We allegedly live in an age of informed choices and consent but I really question to what extent it is the case given the progressive dilution of democracy and reduction in the employment of democratic tools.

Every teacher worth their salt should be outlining what DEMOS KRATOS originally meant. Don't forget the words 'of, by and for' :) :)

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Jun 3, 11, 19:38 #10

MediaWatch:

I knew a guy who made anti-Polish jokes/slurs. When I kindly explained to him that they came from anti-Polish bigotry in the media, he seemed to respect me and appreciated my input on the matter.

My experience with people like this is that they usually take the hint, and they wait,,, till they meet a person wjho shares their bigotory and then they rant the same sh1t. I doubt you convinced him about anything.

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Edited by: MediaWatch Jun 3, 11, 21:30 #11

milky:

It depends on the person.

If they're generally a decent person, they probably won't do that. But if they're a jerk to begin with and insecure about their own ancestry, then you're probably right.

But whether they're a jerk or not, at least it makes them think twice about making ethnic slurs about Poles and other people.

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Jun 3, 11, 21:46 #12

Another dimension to this discussion is pagan metal fans and their influence. I listen to the Russian group 'Arkona' and they really appeal to the senses of Slavs. They are a pan-Slavic group who aim to attract Slavs to their music. In their concert, 'Zhizn vo Slavu' (on Youtube), they start some songs with a cry to Slavdom. Posters here like Crow have had to accept that, while not being his style of music, they express the sentiments that he wants to garner and ultimately convey. Underestimate the power of metal at your peril!! OK, the governments can make the decisions but they are outnumbered by such people who can orchestrate changes of their own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZlIm0vhmME, a taste of pan-Slavic sentiment by Arkona. Beautiful lyrics!

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 3, 11, 21:49 #13
Seanus: Arkona This was the name of the temple complex upon the island of Rugen (now German territory).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 3, 11, 21:52 #14
I don't think that was the inspiration of these great Russians ;0 ;)

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Jun 3, 11, 22:06 #15

Seanus:

I don't think that was the inspiration of these great Russians ;0 ;)

Do those emoticons mean you are kidding Seanus? Because if they are Slavic pagans then the temple complex called Arkona, which included the temple of Swantewit, and was the last major center of Slavic paganism to fall to the Christians, was surely their inspiration. I read the lyrics of a Behemoth song (the most prominent Polish band in the world) and they too refer to this last bastion of the old faith.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 3, 11, 22:23 #16
I don't know if they had that temple foremost in mind when forming their band name but who knows, right? It would make sense in a way! I see remarkable similarities in some Poles/Russians. On a night out, there would be many a good time had.

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Jun 3, 11, 22:43 #17

Seanus:

if they had that temple foremost in mind

According to Wikipedia's entry on the band-
"The name of the band "Arkona" refers to the last pagan Slavic city-castle." It didn't fall to Christianity until 1169

Seanus:

I see remarkable similarities in some Poles/Russians

Arkona was niether Polish nor Russian but rather a stronghold of the Rani or Rujani (for whom Rugen is named) a West Slavic tribe. So in picking this name this Russian band has indeed promoted a Eastern and Western Slavic reconciliation in a genuine Pan-Slavicist spirit

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 3, 11, 22:46 #18
More than likely, DE. They don't seek to limit their focus solely to Russians. They want to strike a chord with a broad audience. Their label of 'pagan' might lose them some fans but I hope not. I love their bagpipe use :) :) They rekindle the Slavic flame and that's sth politicians tend not to give a hoot for.

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Jun 3, 11, 23:31 #19

Seanus:

rekindle the Slavic flame and that's sth politicians tend not to give a hoot for.

not in Russia. Unfortunately, they very much give a hoot for, and not in the way you suggest.

Slavic/Russian nationalism is pretty much the only viable political force capable of effectively opposing the current klepto oligarchy (which is in cahoots with the Russian Orthodox Church), so they get persecuted a lot. Same applies to Ukraine (except the nationalist movement is split there - there's (pan)slavic, and there's zapadenski kind). It's pretty sad :(

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 3, 11, 23:35 #20
Heart sees them through. When drunk and at a concert, you are not really thinking about political/religious institutions and that's my point. Let them live their dream!

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Jun 4, 11, 00:04 #21

Des Essientes:

I read the lyrics of a Behemoth song (the most prominent Polish band in the world) and they too refer to this last bastion of the old faith.

Interesting I always thought Vader was up there (I dont know much about metal but I like it).

More on topic though I think Poland (the smaller cities/villages), Russia, and Ukraine still need a bit more time to catch up. Russia was fairly richer (I think) before the Bolsheviks ruined it and started killing millions of our own. Its amazing how cruel and unfortunate history has been for us.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 4, 11, 00:09 #22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv8FftQeeWs, Vkus pobedi part 1. Poles should be able to understand parts of this song which builds bridges. If I can follow parts through knowing Polish then so can they :) Again, metal is a major drive towards union between select peoples :)

Wiedzmin_fanThreads: 2 Posts: 133 Joined: May 31, 10 ♂	Jun 4, 11, 00:56 #23
Seanus: metal is a major drive towards union between select peoples it doesn't have to be metal :) any slavic music would do. for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUM4tC_l1vY

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 4, 11, 18:57 #24
True but metal carries messages with it in a big way. Being a true metalhead is like belonging to an institution and that helps the cause of unity.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jun 4, 11, 18:59 #25
PolskiMoc: Poland has been kind of pissing off Russia with U.S ties. I think it is potentially a bad thing. There are slavs, here, lol. Besides, Russia isn't pissed off.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 13, 11, 13:46 #26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRuq2j31ew, a recent meeting of Tusk and Obama. Obama looks so smug here.

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Edited by: Crow Aug 13, 11, 14:32 #27

Masks falling down and time of divisions among Slavs is at end. New era is in front of us all. We would found scent. We, numerous Slavic tribes, people, every single individual of our great civilization has right to preserve its own characteristics but still, we are all children of Slavija.

Slavs should refuse crisis and we should pledge to prosper. We have enough resources for sustainable development. Our wide Slavic soul and our deep connection to the nature would show us way.

Slavija Majka! Slavija Besmrtna!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 13, 11, 14:47 #28
Crow, what position would Belarus and Croatia play in this union?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 13, 11, 14:53 #29
Crow, what position would Belarus and Croatia play in this union? every care should be taken in future Slavic Confederation, there should be democratic and transparent institutions which deal with any opened question within the Slavic world

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 13, 11, 14:54 #30
So, without the prevarication, what's your answer?

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