Poland’s budget problems = Polish funerals

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Aug 17, 10, 21:38 #1

Poland’s budget problems are becoming so serious that even the dead are going to have to pay their share, as the government considers spending cuts that include taking an axe to generous funeral allowances.

“The allowance will be set closer to EU norms,” Ludwik Kotecki, the deputy finance minister, told reporters, adding: “Currently it is too high, which has meant that funeral costs [in Poland] are some of the highest in the world.”

The current state handout is 6,487 zlotys (€1,621, £1,344, $2,100) and the government wants to cut it to 3,500 zlotys, which would save about 1bn zlotys a year.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77961b34-a9db-11df-8eb1-00144feabdc0.html

About time they do something about it. I even saw a documentary called Necrobusiness that was about this issue where the undertakers in Lodz makes huge profit by paying ambulance drivers to get the information where the unfortunate relatives live, then they go there with contracts to get the relatives to sign over the burial funds to the undertakers.

You can find the Documentary on youtube

Part 1

Part 2

If you wanna see the other parts, just search for "_Łódzki nekrobiznes. Wątki nieujawnione. Dokument BBC zabroniony w Polsce02" and it will come in a sec.

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Aug 18, 10, 00:18 #2

David_18:

Poland’s budget problems are becoming so serious that even the dead are going to have to pay their share, as the government considers spending cuts that include taking an axe to generous funeral allowances.

They're not serious. PO is simply culling a lot of the pointless allowances and fluff from the budget in order to make sure that the budget deficit doesn't run out of control. It makes perfect sense to cut money such as this - all it's doing is subsidising the funeral sector.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 14:57 #3
delphiandomine: It makes perfect sense to cut money such as this - all it's doing is subsidising the funeral sector. Yah it's insane that they give out 6,487 zlotys for a dead guy. I mean this is actually serious money. Instead of giving 6,487 zlotys to a dead guy maybe they should give this amount for every new born instead? This would for sure help the parents.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Aug 18, 10, 16:31 #4
David_18: Instead of giving 6,487 zlotys to a dead guy maybe they should give this amount for every new born instead? This would for sure help the parents. new born kiddies get about 1,000zl already. it's seems one is worth more when dead.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 16:55 #5
Wroclaw: new born kiddies get about 1,000zl already. it's seems one is worth more when dead. Adding 6000zl for the new born would be much better then 1000zl. 1000zl ain't even enough for 1 year consumption of diapers...

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 18, 10, 17:16 #6
David_18: Adding 6000zl for the new born would be much better then 1000zl. 1000zl ain't even enough for 1 year consumption of diapers... No, there should be nothing for new born children. If you can't afford them, don't have them!

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 17:19 #7
delphiandomine: No, there should be nothing for new born children. If you can't afford them, don't have them! People shouldn't be subsidized for life choices.

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 17:34 #8
Delphiandomine wrote: If you can't afford them, don't have them! which is exactly what poles are doing. Poland averages 1.28 children born per woman, ranking them in 206th place out of 220 countries. http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=0&v=31&l=en

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Aug 18, 10, 17:50 #9
FUZZYWICKETS: which is exactly what poles are doing. Good for them. Poland seems to be in good company compared to the countries that are lurking higher up on that list..

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Aug 18, 10, 18:07 #10
delphiandomine: No, there should be nothing for new born children. If you can't afford them, don't have them! nothing wrong with a little help along the way. the uk has been paying for kids for 50 years or more.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Edited by: David_18 Aug 18, 10, 18:42 #11
delphiandomine: No, there should be nothing for new born children. If you can't afford them, don't have them! Well i bet it can't be easy to raise a child without any support from the goverment. Especially for single parents.

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Aug 18, 10, 20:49 #12

Wroclaw:

nothing wrong with a little help along the way. the uk has been paying for kids for 50 years or more.

True, and it looks like the first moves to put a stop to universal child benefit are underway.

David_18:

Well i bet it can't be easy to raise a child without any support from the goverment. Especially for single parents.

Why should single parents receive anything extra? They still have the father/mother to provide support. Additionally, if you can't raise a child without help - why have one?

I'm in favour of tax allowances for those with children instead of money. Tax allowances encourage people to work - handouts don't.

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Aug 26, 10, 15:59 #13
delphiandomine: Why should single parents receive anything extra? Not always so easy for a single parent? especially in Poland... delphiandomine: Additionally, if you can't raise a child without help - why have one? Abortion is a tabu in Poland you know ;)

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Aug 26, 10, 16:35 #14

David_18:

Not always so easy for a single parent? especially in Poland...

Its not easy being a single parent anywhere in the world, but why do you think other people should pay? As already stated people make life choices and its down to them to ensure they are able to provide financially for a new addition to the family. As for single parents in Poland, I hear the courts are quite good at making absent parents pay for their offspring..

David_18:

Abortion is a tabu in Poland you know ;)

So is contraception!

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,212 Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂	Aug 26, 10, 17:29 #15
Amathyst: Its not easy being a single parent anywhere in the world, but why do you think other people should pay? Yes but by not providing the single parents with some wellfare beneifts you also make the childs situation way worse.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 26, 10, 17:42 #16
Amathyst: As for single parents in Poland, I hear the courts are quite good at making absent parents pay for their offspring.. They're very good - it's probably one of the very few things where Poland is much better than the UK.

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Edited by: SeanBM Aug 26, 10, 17:47 #17

delphiandomine:

They're very good

Just out of curiosity, do they track an absent parent if they leave for another E.U. country?
(not that I have any plans of course).

This is where I think the E.U. ought to be more like the U.S. and have state law (in our case country laws) and federal laws ( in our case Interpol).
To make sure it is easier for laws to be enforced, like that other thread with the paedophile that was caught.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 26, 10, 17:48 #18
SeanBM: Just out of curiosity, do they track an absent parent if they leave for another E.U. country? As far as I gather, they'll issue a European Arrest Warrant if the person fails to comply with the court order. In practice though, I guess they go after the parents of the person who has fled first - if they're resident in Poland.

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Aug 26, 10, 17:51 #19

SeanBM:

Just out of curiosity, do they track an absent parent if they leave for another E.U. country?

I'm not so sure. I know of a few Polish workmates here that have children back home. But I don't think (going by what they are spending here) that they pay anything towards their children back home. I think its down to the other parent to inform the Polish version of CSA, but even at that, im guessing it would be near damn impossible to locate the other parent abroad.

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Edited by: SeanBM Aug 26, 10, 17:55 #20

delphiandomine:

European Arrest Warrant

I know this is becoming off topic now but one last question, since the conversation has gone this way.

Who enforces a European Arrest Warrant? I mean say I leave my 15 children here (in Poland) and go back to Ireland.
Would it be the local gardai (Police) that I would expect knocking on my door? and if so would Polish law apply or Irish law, since I am in Ireland yet my children are in Poland? for more serious crimes would I be deported?

dtaylor5632:

im guessing it would be near damn impossible to locate the other parent abroad.

You'd imagine that many are legally employed and pay taxes and can be tracked?

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Edited by: dtaylor5632 Aug 26, 10, 18:00 #21
SeanBM: You'd imagine that many are legally employed and pay taxes and can be tracked? But do you think the Government agencies would put the time and effort into searching for the EXACT person ect. CSA at the moment is far too busy searching for British Fathers and mothers rather than chasing up ones from abroad. Not that I agree with it at all.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Aug 26, 10, 18:03 #22
Amathyst: As for single parents in Poland, I hear the courts are quite good at making absent parents pay for their offspring.. You hear wrong, very wrong.

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Edited by: SeanBM Aug 26, 10, 18:11 #23

dtaylor5632:

But do you think the Government agencies would put the time and effort into searching for the EXACT person ect. CSA at the moment is far too busy searching for British Fathers and mothers rather than chasing up ones from abroad. Not that I agree with it at all.

What's the CSA?

I was amazed recently, with the English social services.
My mate in Ireland has a son with a Scottish woman in London.
She is mad and the social services in England want my friend's son to live with his father, as it is the best for the child.
I can't remember exactly but they gave my friend between 1000 and 3000 pounds to use finding a lawyer and getting custody.
A social worker flew over to Ireland and checked my friend's situation and it was clear that the child would benefit the most from living in Ireland with his father.
I am really impressed with this, as it really shows that they have the child's well being at heart.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Aug 26, 10, 18:14 #24
SeanBM: What's the CSA? Child Support Agency, those responsible for dealing with this kind of stuff. I would suppose the sensible thing would be for the Polish government to pay for the other parent, blacklist him with the amount he/she owed, then on their return force them to pay up. That would be sensible enough, though I doubt they would do it.

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Aug 26, 10, 18:19 #25

dtaylor5632:

I would suppose the sensible thing would be for the Polish government to pay for the other parent,

I suppose this is kind of what the thread is about, cut backs on the budget and I suppose the voters are not too concerned with these cases.

dtaylor5632:

I would suppose the sensible thing would be for the Polish government to pay for the other parent, blacklist him with the amount he/she owed, then on their return force them to pay up. That would be sensible enough, though I doubt they would do it.

How do they do it in the U.S.? anyone?

They have been doing this cross (state) boarder stuff for a while, I just wonder if they have a better system?

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Aug 26, 10, 18:21 #26
SeanBM: They have been doing this cross (state) boarder stuff for a while, I just wonder if they have a better system? I think if they are caught commiting any crime during that case all background checks can be done. If they are found not to have been paying, they can face a huge bill or lengthy jail term. Though my knowledge of this comes from watching too much Judge Judy....I love that woman!

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Edited by: SeanBM Aug 26, 10, 18:26 #27

dtaylor5632:

I think if they are caught commiting any crime during that case all background checks can be done. If they are found not to have been paying, they can face a huge bill or lengthy jail term.

I remember a good few years ago, one Dublin gangster who had many warrants for crimes in Ireland, was caught in Amsterdam because he didn't buy a ticket for a tram, they did a background check and deported him back to Ireland.
Apart from the translation, it shouldn't cost that much to have a E.U. criminal data base and we would all reap the benefit.

dtaylor5632:

Judge Judy....I love that woman!

It is times like this that I love not having a TV.

Are we on the right thread?

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