Poland's Jewish first lady?

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,547 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 15:58 #1
Foreign Minister Radek SWorski is among those regarded as possible presidential candidates following Tusk's abandonment of the race. SIkorski's wife is American Jewess Anne Apfelbaum. Do you think that will be a problem for Polish voters?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Jan 30, 10, 16:05 #2
Polonius3: Do you think that will be a problem for Polish voters? I think Sikorski will be a problem for Polish voters.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 16:07 #3
Polonius3: Anne Apfelbaum. What a nice german name! :)

BartolomeThreads: 2 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Sep 14, 06 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 17:24 #4
She speaks Polish better than many an allegedly native Pole.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 17:33 #5
Bartolome: She speaks Polish better than many an allegedly native Pole. He is a native Pole. Some native Poles speak better Polish then other native Poles. The same is true for other countries.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 17:34 #6

Polonius3:

American Jewess Anne Apfelbaum

American, immigrant to Poland and great historian. Not religious. Not called Apfelbaum. Nor ever was called Apfelbaum.

Her name is Applebaum.

And whether she's Jewish or not, I suspect most intelligent people in PL neither know nor care. The voters are looking forward to President Sikorski.

In Poland, the loony right and extreme 'nationalists' generally accuse every politician they don't like of being Jewish anyway. The rantings of armchair racists don't seem to affect the actual voting one iota.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Jan 30, 10, 17:35 #7
Depends which voters you have in mind. Antisemites? Of course they will have a problem. Normal people? Nope.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 30, 10, 17:46 #8
jonni: Her name is Applebaum. Applebaum - anglicized form of german/ashkenazi Apfelbaum :) Interesting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jillian-york/anne-applebaum-child-rape_b _305814.html http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909300030

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Jan 30, 10, 17:51 #9

Bratwurst Boy:

Applebaum - anglicized form of german/ashkenazi Apfelbaum :)

And my surname's an anglicised form of scottish/gaelic Something or other.

But my name's the one I was born with in 1967, the name on my passport and bank card, not the name my ancestors used 500 years ago.

And her name's the one she was born with in 1964, the name on her passport and bank card, not the one her ancestors used whenever. Meaning Applebaum, not Apfel anything.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 30, 10, 17:53 #10
jonni: Meaning Applebaum, not Apfel anything. Actually they only changed "Apfel" to "Apple" but left the german "baum". If they had been more consequent they should have chosen "Appletree"....;)

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 17:55 #11
Bratwurst Boy: "Appletree" I've met people called Appletree, presumably changed from Apfelbaum. But it sounds a little odd in English - Applebaum is a nice alternative - a nod to heritage, and easier for a non-German speaker to pronounce well.

♂

Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 30, 10, 21:35 #12

Polonius3:

Foreign Minister Radek SWorski is among those regarded as possible presidential candidates following Tusk's abandonment of the race. SIkorski's wife is American Jewess Anne Apfelbaum. Do you think that will be a problem for Polish voters?

Please refer to this recent thread about an article in the Rothschild owned 'Economist' as to this Sikorski, and 'Poland's improving economy that is making people take notice'...Now, who is taking notice?

http://www.polishforums.com/news-politics-4/economist-time-rethink-old -notions-poland-41739/#msg845290

Anne Apfelbaum, Sikorski's wife and columnist for Khazar owned Washington Post

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 21:57 #13
joepilsudski: Apfelbaum Why do you call her that? It is not nor ever has been her name.

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Jan 30, 10, 22:04 #14

jonni:

And whether she's Jewish or not, I suspect most intelligent people in PL neither know nor care. The voters are looking forward to President Sikorski.

It'll be a very easy win for him if he stands, no doubt Kaczynski will throw "JEWISH WIFE" at him and everyone else will laugh, meanwhile Sikorski will get on with being popular and won't even bother to attack Kaczynski. After all, it's hardly a secret that dear old Lech's popularity only increases whenever he doesn't open his mouth.

jonni:

In Poland, the loony right and extreme 'nationalists' generally accuse every politician they don't like of being Jewish anyway.

I still don't understand this - sure, people who were around before WW2 might have a reason to dislike Jews, but nowadays?

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Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 22:11 #15

delphiandomine:

I still don't understand this

Me too. Look at post #12. Some people are nutters, some are malicious, some are both. Some are just looking for a group of people to blame for the world's ills, seeing connections and conspiracies that just aren't there. Most normal people here in PL just get on with life.

I don't think Kaczyński would openly make racist slurs (though his campaign leaked the story about Tusk's grandfather being in the Wehrmacht a couple of days before the election - enough time for it to hit the front page, not enough time for people to figure out that he was drafted against his will and under threat of death). And Kaczyński himself isn't noticeably anti-semitic.

There'll be grafitti on a few campaign posters, oblique comments on Radio Maryja, pages of garbage on the internet, put there by malicious obsessives like @joepilsudski, but in the end, people will choose the candidate they think will do the job best.

RogalskiThreads: 9 Posts: 146 Joined: May 8, 09 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 22:15 #16
How come EVERYTHING is a conspiracy to some people? Other than them being paranoid schizophrenics, of course. In which case, their access to a computer should be more carefully monitored by their carers. http://www.schizophrenia.com/help/Schizanon.html

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 30, 10, 22:28 #17

joepilsudski:

joepilsudski

Whether she's a Jewess or not is of little consequence unless she did something to compromise her position in Poland, did she or did she not?

Also Joe no i'm not interested if she's related to Rotschilds, just whether she did something that would make us question her?

delphiandomine:

I still don't understand this - sure, people who were around before WW2 might have a reason to dislike Jews, but nowadays?

LOTS of Jews backed communism the general populace never fully forgave the Jewish minority, today its mostly sentiments but still it lingers.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 22:30 #18
Sokrates: unless she did something to compromise her position in Poland Even the reverse. Her book 'Gulag' is an amazing piece of scholarship - a good book on a bad subject, and eminently readable. Her presence is a credit to her adopted home.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 30, 10, 22:32 #19

jonni:

Even the reverse. Her book 'Gulag' is an amazing piece of scholarship

Jonni i dont give a crap about her books in regards to communism all i care about is her stance on Poland in light of her being a possible first lady.

If she as much as looked wrong our way she definitely should be opposed, i'm of course not happy about her not being Polish but lets not be stupid about it, unless she did something thats aimed at us negatively i say let her be.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 22:38 #20
Sokrates: i dont give a crap about her books Many people do. To have a first lady with an international reputation is quite something. Sokrates: i'm of course not happy about her not being Polish Why? France and Iceland have first ladies from other countries. Belgium, Sweden, Spain and Britain have Heads of State married to foreigners. Nobody thinks it at all strange.

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Jan 30, 10, 22:42 #21

delphiandomine:

I still don't understand this - sure, people who were around before WW2 might have a reason to dislike Jews, but nowadays?

My dear, do you live in the US?...This country is run by Jews: Wall Steet, the Federal Reserve, all of Obama's top advisors are Jews, Obama was put into office by Jewish money...They brag about it in their press: Vanity Fair, Israeli press...The media is controlled by Jews, every major network, newspaper and magazine...And all we hear is give more money to Israel, and bail out this, bail out that...We have spent and are spending over $1 trillion for Zionist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...all triggered by Israelis blowing up the WTC.

Maybe the goy are really fools.

This sound extreme?...Believe me, the evidence is solid...

Now, this is the Zionist ruling elite, and not necessarily individual Jews, although Jews always fall into line when their leaders call and frighten them...I try to educate you as to current events and maybe to history...The same forces that prompted WWII exist now.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 30, 10, 22:43 #22

jonni:

Many people do. To have a first lady with an international reputation is quite something.

I'm more interested in her views on Poland then her reputation, reputation is a thing thats important externally we're talking about internal influences.

jonni:

Why?

Because Poland has to be run by Poles and i feel uneasy whenever people of non-polish lineage are near the nexuses of power in Poland, of course she's probably just a regular person but who's to say Joes conspiration theories dont hold a grain of truth?

We in Poland have a long history of why non-Polish people need a shorter leash when close to power.

jonni:

France and Iceland have first ladies from other countries. Belgium, Sweden, Spain and Britain have Heads of State married to foreigners. Nobody thinks it at all strange.

Different countries different requirements we're a political and economic frontier, a place where cultures and interests clashed for a 1000 years and still do, where others can let themselves go we in Poland need to be extra careful.

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 22:45 #23
Polonius3: Do you think that will be a problem for Polish voters? no

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Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 22:46 #24

Sokrates:

Because Poland has to be run by Poles

So the first lady runs Poland. Not that Poland needs to be run by ethnic Poles at all. It needs to be run by competent leaders, elected by popular vote. Some of the greatest patriots can have ethnic roots elsewhere.

Sokrates:

i feel uneasy whenever people of non-polish lineage

Lineages by blood or by culture.

Sokrates:

who's to say Joes conspiration theorie

The guy is a malignant obsessive who is best ignored.

where others can let themselves go we in Poland need to be extra careful.

I don't disagree with that. Being too careful can lead to Ciemnogrod of course, but Poland is evolving into a modern European state, and can take a few steps forward with confidence.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 30, 10, 22:52 #25

jonni:

So the first lady runs Poland. Not that Poland needs to be run by ethnic Poles at all. It needs to be run by competent leaders, elected by popular vote.

First of all Jonni you being foreign telling a Polish guy who needs to run Poland is a tad insolent dont you think?

Second of all Poland needs to be run by ethnic Poles since they're more likely to identify themselves with national interest while foreigners are more likely to exploit our country, neither me nor any sane Pole would agree for Poland to be run by a different nationality.

jonni:

Lineages by blood or by culture.

Either, i wouldnt mind if a Polish citizens of French heritage but born in Poland and feeling Polish would go for president, i would mind if a naturalized one did though.

jonni:

The guy is a malignant obsessive who is best ignored.

And you're overly liberal, both of you present certain unreasonable extremes which doesnt preclude the fact that either of you might be right to some degree so...?

Joe has one thing going for him that you dont, he asks questions, stupid obsessive questions but he still is questioning things, as far as crucial positions like first lady, we need to ask questions and we need to get answers, your attitude is extremely naive.

jonni:

I don't disagree with that. Being too careful can lead to Ciemnogrod of course, but Poland is evolving into a modern European state, and can take a few steps forward with confidence.

Yes but not in this regard, we dont have the luxury of absolute tolerance since it destroyed our great kingdom in the past and can still bite us in the arse, tolerance and being open yes but limits need to be laid down.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 23:02 #26

Sokrates:

First of all Jonni you being foreign telling a Polish guy who needs to run Poland is a tad insolent dont you think?

No. I live here (and have a right to be here), pay taxes, a lot of taxes here, and will probably always be here. I vote in Euro and local elections, and sooner or later in general elections. Also if I applied for citizenship I would get it.

And voting by Poles probably changed the person who runs London. Is that insolent?

Sokrates:

while foreigners are more likely to exploit our country

Why do you think that?

Sokrates:

you're overly liberal

Not particularly liberal at all.

Sokrates:

unreasonable extremes

What "unreasonable extremes" do I present? That the president can have a foreign born wife? Carla Bruni would laugh herself silly.

Sokrates:

[quote=Sokrates]Joe has one thing going for him that you dont, he asks questions

He doesn't ask questions. He copies and pastes malicious and disingenuous nonsense from internet hate-sites. I think I ask some very pertinent questions.

Sokrates:

as far as crucial positions like first lady

Crucial in what way? Pillow talk with Mr President? Didn't Ojca Rydzyk describe Maria Kaczyńska as a witch who should be euthanised? Yes. Has it made the slightest difference? No.

Sokrates:

your attitude is extremely naive

Naive how? By saying that the Head of States choice of spouse is a matter for him, and not the ethnic nationalist tendency in his country, and that Poland as a country is developed enough to accept that choice, as France and Britain have.

sokrates:

Yes but not in this regard

Are you saying that Poland can't take steps forward with confidence?

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Jan 30, 10, 23:13 #27

jonni:

No. I live here (and have a right to be here), pay taxes, a lot of taxes here, and will probably always be here. I vote in Euro and local elections, and sooner or later in general elections. Also if I applied for citizenship I would get it.

When you get your citizenship Jonni you get to teach me about the governing of my country k?

jonni:

Why do you think that?

Because Europe despite its outwards appearance is full of particular interests which are often conflicting in nature.

jonni:

What "unreasonable extremes"do I present? That the president can have a foreign born wife? Carla Bruni would laugh herself silly.

Who said he cant? I just said i feel uneasy about it but if he proves to be a reasonable candidate i'm going to vote for him anyway.

jonni:

He doesn't ask questions. He copies and pastes nonsense from internet hate-sites. I think I ask some very pertinent questions.

Many of these hate sites do make a good point and make you think which is why they're branded as "hate sites" and people like you who follow the general view brand them as well, i have an open mind about it.

jonni:

Naive how? By saying that the Head of States choice of spouse is a matter for him

Yep, it doesnt matter if you're Joe Average, if you're a president it matters like hell.

jonni:

and that Poland as a country is developed enough to accept that choice, as France and Britain have.

Are you saying that Poland can't take steps forward with confidence?

I'm saying that Poland cannot and should not step forward in a way Western countries did because we're still a geopolitical ground zero and have to find our own way with much more caution in regards to foreigners who are near centres of political power.

Emulating the West would be just stupid.

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Edited by: jonni Jan 30, 10, 23:21 #28

Sokrates:

When you get your citizenship Jonni you get to teach me about the governing of my country

I don't plan to apply - the citizenship I have is sufficient for me to live here; sooner or later we'll all have European citizenship anyway, like it or not. And who's teaching? Debating maybe. Though perhaps that was a Freudian slip that suggests you've got a lot to learn.

Sokrates:

Europe despite its outwards appearance is full of particular interests which are often conflicting in nature

And so has Poland. As above, so below. But are they intranational, international, extranational or cross-national?

Sokrates:

a good point and make you think which is why they're branded as "hate sites

Branded?? They are described as 'hate sites' for other reasons.

Sokrates:

people like you who follow the general view

Hmm. Ad hominem already! And I don't follow "the general view" whatever that might be. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Sokrates:

if you're a president it matters like hell

Like hell it matters. Unless she strangles puppies for a hobby or the countries involved are at war. The president's husband or wife's nationality is a matter for them and no more that mildly interesting for others.

Sokrates:

I'm saying that Poland cannot and should not step forward in a way Western countries did

Sokrates:

Emulating the West would be just stupid

Are you saying Poland isn't "the West"?

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Jan 30, 10, 23:27 #29

jonni:

Branded?? They are described as 'hate sites' for other reasons.

What reasons would that be? While Joe is either a troll or a nutter some of the sources he brings up have significant credibility and do make sense.

jonni:

Sokrates:
Europe despite its outwards appearance is full of particular interests which are often conflicting in nature
And so has Poland. As above, so below.

I'm sorry but what was the point of your reply here? The point is we're voulnarable and need to be more careful.

jonni:

Hmm. Ad hominem already! And I don't follow "the general view" whatever that might be. Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Dont make me dig now, this thread is not about you but yes you do have opinions that fit in a general frame of political correctness.

jonni:

Like hell it matters. Unless she strangles puppies for a hobby. The president's husband or wife's nationality is a matter for them.

Use your imagination, if she doesnt like Poland she might influence her husband in a negative way, heck she might even work with groups who seek to exploit Poland, such things happened in the past and can happen in the future.

jonni:

Are you saying Poland isn't "the West"?

No Poland is Poland, its a mix of East and West, add to this the difficult frontier position we have and we need to find our own way.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06 ♂	Jan 30, 10, 23:28 #30
jonni: Are you saying Poland isn't "the West"? Do you think it is?

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