Poland's Kaczynski blames Russia for brother's death

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: ukpolska Jun 29, 11, 19:42 #1
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland's main opposition party, said on Wednesday Russia bore the main responsibility for a plane crash last April in which his twin brother and Poland's then-president died. WARSAW, June 29 (Reuters) LINK Oh dear!!!

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 29, 11, 19:48 #2
ukpolska: Poland's Kaczynski blames Russia for brother's death OMG. Tell him to come onto the forums and come clean with his sexuality. Homosexuality in Polish Culture

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Jun 29, 11, 21:09 #3
Seems to me and I might be wrong, that he is playing a political game with his brothers death in an election year, trying to gain the either the sympathy vote or the 'let's all unite against Russia' vote. If he is doing this then it is a very dangerous path to go down and could backfire.

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Jun 29, 11, 21:31 #4

ukpolska:

Seems to me and I might be wrong, that he is playing a political game with his brothers death in an election year, trying to gain the either the sympathy vote or the 'let's all unite against Russia' vote.
If he is doing this then it is a very dangerous path to go down and could backfire.

It's not going to work. People don't like it - in fact, it's almost certain to end in yet another electoral humiliation.

Seems to me as if he has simply run out of ideas - either that, or the obsession with revenge has finally boiled over.

♂

Edited by: dtaylor5632 Jun 29, 11, 21:34 #5

I'll continue with the phrase "seems to me".... Seems to me that the guy knows he is well past being re-elected and is scraping the remains of a very empty barrel to gain votes.
Unfortunately there still are a lot of voters who would still vote for him and would use this to as an excuse why to. The babka hat grannies comes to mind ;)

Oh and may I just say.... Let the nut job conspiracy theorists follow..........

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 29, 11, 21:36 #6
What a twat! He was nicey nicey with the Russians in a carefully calculated speech after Smoleńsk but now he has the gaul to have a dig at them :( I researched the catastrophe and found fault on both sides. True, the Russians could have done more but they were not solely to blame.

LenkaThreads: - Posts: 241 Joined: Nov 17, 09 ♀	Jun 29, 11, 21:40 #7
As well as for floods,hurricanes and diseases.Germany is responsible for fires,eruption of the volcano and crimes.Nothing new.

alexw68	Jun 29, 11, 21:46 #8
Lenka: Germany is responsible for fires,eruption of the volcano and crimes. It was us? Wow. A (denizen of Poznań, but half-son of Nordrhein-Westfal - and proud of it :) )

LenkaThreads: - Posts: 241 Joined: Nov 17, 09 ♀	Jun 29, 11, 22:11 #9
alexw68: It was us? You didn't know? Poor child :D I'm happy that I added to your knowledge :D But serious-sometimes I feel sorry for Kaczyński. He must live in a very sad and lonely place.I can't imagine how it feels when you think everybody is your enemy and the truth(of course truth in his opinion) you tell is ignored and ridiculed.That must be hard.

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Edited by: mafketis Jun 29, 11, 22:18 #10

ukpolska:

Seems to me and I might be wrong, that he is playing a political game with his brothers death in an election year

Your only mistake is understatement. He's been using his brother's corpse as a political weapon since about a week after the crash - it's been one of the most gruesome political ploys I've ever witnessed. In the process he wrecked the tremendous outpouring of goodwill and hopes for reconciliation in this very divided country and tried to increase the divisions to keep his own career afloat (and/or exorcise the guilt he must be feeling). I will always despise him for choosing his personal political ambition over the wellbeing of the country.

There's about 25-30% of the electorate will still vote for his party for one reason only - they don't have anyone else. Oddly enough the long term beneficiaries of his current strategy are ... the left (including post communists who for all their corruption seem viable in comparison).

Lenka:

sometimes I feel sorry for Kaczyński

I did too but I got over it.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 29, 11, 22:22 #11
ukpolska: Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland's main opposition party, said on Wednesday Russia bore the main responsibility for a plane crash last April in which his twin brother and Poland's then-president died. He said it, but nobody worth bothering about was listening. Duckboy has got to be the best political weapon PO and the SLD have.

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Jun 29, 11, 22:22 #12

Lenka:

But serious-sometimes I feel sorry for Kaczyński. He must live in a very sad and lonely place.I can't imagine how it feels when you think everybody is your enemy and the truth(of course truth in his opinion) you tell is ignored and ridiculed.That must be hard.

I think so too - he probably doesn't realise that his party will be sharpening the knives for him - PiS simply cannot survive another 3 years in opposition with Kaczynski as leader. He's already driven them downwards and lost a few talented members - one more defeat is going to really hurt them.

mafketis:

Oddly enough the long term beneficiaries of his current strategy are ... the left (including post communists who for all their corruption seem viable in comparison).

Yep, agreed. The SLD have been behaving like a real opposition party, including pulling PO up on several issues that PiS really should have been shouting about - it's my opinion that another 4 years of credible opposition will see them returned to power in 2015. The courting of the SLD by PiS is nothing short of laughable.

rybnikThreads: 29 Posts: 1,232 Joined: Jan 16, 11 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 02:36 #13
delphiandomine: Seems to me as if he has simply run out of ideas - either that, or the obsession with revenge has finally boiled over. revenge for what?

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 08:16 #14
rybnik: revenge for what? Not being interned during martial law? He can never forgive the communists for that slight.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 08:45 #15
mafketis: Not being interned during martial law? He can never forgive the communists for that slight. That's because mummy told him to be a good boy, stay home give her a foot massage, eat some of her soup, and play with the cat.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 10:08 #16
rybnik: delphiandomine: Seems to me as if he has simply run out of ideas - either that, or the obsession with revenge has finally boiled over. revenge for what? For letting them have a spacious flat in Żolibórz during commie time ?

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Jun 30, 11, 10:15 #17

mafketis:

Not being interned during martial law? He can never forgive the communists for that slight.

His father collaborating in some way too - rather suspicious that while many former AK members were imprisoned and brainwashed (or worse), his father managed to climb the ladder very quickly. Very odd that a journalist involved with Solidarity would manage to operate for years without being locked up, too. And then there's the case of his brother, who managed to get interned and then quickly released (and was still free to practice his trade).

I'm convinced that the brothers anti-Communist stance comes not from belief, but from shame and guilt.

rybnik:

revenge for what?

Revenge for the belief that everyone is out to get him.

What's frightening is that if, somehow, he ever wins power again - we're going to see witchhunts on a massive scale.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 30, 11, 10:17 #18
sobieski: For letting them have a spacious flat in Żolibórz during commie time ? And for letting the two of them star in that film despite their father having been an NCO in the AK (and as we all know, the vast majority of AK leadership were ruthlessly persecuted after the war).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 10:27 #19
We see a total lack of ethics in JK here. The level of ruthless opportunism is staggering. Maybe he has conducted his own investigation with somehow more experienced personnel? ;) Russian ineptness combined with Polish cockiness was an obvious recipe for disaster. JK should stick to honouring his brother rather than looking for political gains.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 30, 11, 10:39 #20

mafketis:

Your only mistake is understatement. He's been using his brother's corpse as a political weapon since about a week after the crash -

Well....maybe I'm getting soft...but maybe, just maybe, he is still mourning?
Because it wasn't just his brother who died, it was his twin! He never spend a day alone in his life, they were close as non-twins can't imagine.
I could believe that the pain of missing his other half is still strong and sometimes unbearable....people suffering often strike out against others, blaming them and attacking them, trying to relieve their pain and anger...it's a psychological step during the grieving process. It's quite natural.

Problem is that he is also an outspoken, famous politician - so everything he says gets to the media!

alexw68

Jun 30, 11, 10:49 #21

Bratwurst Boy:

Well....maybe I'm getting soft...but maybe, just maybe, he is still mourning?

Undoubtedly, and he is on the record as saying exactly what you point out - losing a sibling is tragic, losing a twin is another dimension entirely.

That said, the translation of private grief into political crusade is demeaning, opportunistic ... inappropriate. Both Gordon Brown and David Cameron lost children during the last government and NEITHER made political capital out of it. In fact, it was sobering to see how MPs of opposing parties downed weapons - briefly - and acknowledged the grieving fathers' distress in Prime Ministers' Question Time.

Had JK even momentarily acknowledged that the sympathies of those in the opposing political camp - and the Russians' for that matter - might be genuine, he was in with a shout at the polls. So basically he has failed on the counts of both personal integrity and tactical nous.

In short - yesterday's man.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 11:42 #22
Yeah, he has lost the plot well and truly. He needs to put some excellent policy proposals forward that address realities here. If he doesn't do that then he is always going to be the barking little dog in the background that has no chance of getting into power.

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Jun 30, 11, 20:36 #23

sobieski:

For letting them have a spacious flat in Żolibórz during commie time ?

A spacious house even - it's actually quite nice despite being on a main road.

alexw68:

That said, the translation of private grief into political crusade is demeaning, opportunistic ... inappropriate. Both Gordon Brown and David Cameron lost children during the last government and NEITHER made political capital out of it.

And the public didn't even get to hear about Tony Blair's serious family problem until well after he left office and the story was no longer 'hot' - no politician tried to use it against him either.

alexw68:

In short - yesterday's man.

Very much - even when he had some political support he was disastrous - in defeat he is a walking windbag of paranoia.

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 22:18 #24
Let's hope it's gonna be his downfall and another PiS campaign that backfires...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 22:21 #25
JK orchestrated a foul PR campaign. He is such a false little twat! He will blow with the wind and such politicians have no place when clear stands need to be taken. He has some element of practicality but, as a complete package, he comes up short in more ways than one :)

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Jun 30, 11, 22:27 #26

Seanus:

JK orchestrated a foul PR campaign. He is such a false little twat! He will blow with the wind and such politicians have no place when clear stands need to be taken. He has some element of practicality but, as a complete package, he comes up short in more ways than one :)

Whoa Seanie! :)
I didn't know you had it in you...
But he is anti-Brussels and anti-EU, shouldn't you be more sympathetic to him? ;)

frdThreads: 8 Posts: 1,956 Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 22:30 #27
I'm not saying PO won't pull something similar from their sleeve to get the attention of the great unwashed. But the whole leveraging of nationalistic feelings and the deep rooted hatred towards Russia is just way over the top, it will get them only the most right wing votes.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jun 30, 11, 22:34 #28
I'm not anti-EU in some ways, BB. I just dislike the power brokers. Choosing a politician and political party is overly simplified. I may agree with him in some areas and disagree in others.

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Jul 1, 11, 00:22 #29

Bratwurst Boy:

But he is anti-Brussels and anti-EU, shouldn't you be more sympathetic to him? ;)

He's not, though - this is one of the common myths about Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

EU membership, like in most (all?) EU countries is made on the basis of an Act of Parliament - one that Parliament can presumably repeal at any time with a simple majority. If Jarek so wished to leave the EU, they could have left in the 2005-2007 period - they had a majority in the Sejm and the Presidency.

What's more accurate is that he pretends to be Euro-sceptic in order to appease part of his electorate (the 'moustache' faction) while doing nothing to appease the other part of his electorate (the rural ones who depend on EU handouts).

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 4, 11, 18:53 #30
You mean other than to ensure his status as martyr for Poland and to keep alive the dreams of his political puppet master? Well, we already know Jarek has blood on his hands...

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