Poland's Lost Generation

cmsThreads: 6 Posts: 201 Joined: Sep 4, 09 ♂	Apr 26, 11, 10:41 #151
antheads: wages are stagnant, wages are not stagnant - on average they are up by 4% this year and 6-7% in bigger towns. I think more of an issue is that inequality is growing - i.e. some skilled people are getting very good wages and unskilled workers are indeed seeing stagnation.

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Apr 26, 11, 12:07 #152

cms:

wages are not stagnant - on average they are up by 4% this year and 6-7% in bigger towns.

4 per cent is not much more than the official inflation figures - and those official figures don't tell the whole truth believe me - my brother's appartment rent went 20 per cent higher in the last year - and it is over half of his monthly expenses (save for the ciggarettes - you should know that the cigarettes also became more than 10 per cent more expensive in the last year) - should I mention food prices? like that sugar speculation thing

rybnikThreads: 29 Posts: 1,232 Joined: Jan 16, 11 ♂	Apr 27, 11, 03:56 #153
gumishu: you should know that the cigarettes also became more than 10 per cent more expensive in the last year) - should I mention food prices? like that sugar speculation thing so how much is a pack of Marlboro? a dozen eggs? a loaf of bread? etc

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Apr 27, 11, 07:40 #154

rybnik:

gumishu:
you should know that the cigarettes also became more than 10 per cent more expensive in the last year) - should I mention food prices? like that sugar speculation thing

so how much is a pack of Marlboro? a dozen eggs? a loaf of bread? etc

a pack of Marlboro is not much more than 10 złoty - which is about 3 loaves of bread - there is a paradoxical situation that crap cigarettes cost just about 2 złoty less

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Apr 27, 11, 07:50 #155
rybnik: o how much is a pack of Marlboro? a dozen eggs? a loaf of bread? etc have a look this site http://www.tesco.pl/produkty/

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Apr 27, 11, 09:06 #156

gumishu:

4 per cent is not much more than the official inflation figures - and those official figures don't tell the whole truth believe me - my brother's appartment rent went 20 per cent higher in the last year - and it is over half of his monthly expenses (save for the ciggarettes - you should know that the cigarettes also became more than 10 per cent more expensive in the last year) - should I mention food prices? like that sugar speculation thing

With respect they are more reliable than anecdotal evidence from your brother. Lots of food prices actually fell last year as did many imported goods as the zloty got stronger. As for cigarettes well there is an obvious answer to that problem and one I took painfully several years ago - stop paying to kill yourself.

There is no reason why wage increases should outstrip inflation - the rationale for wage increases should be increased productivity.

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Edited by: gumishu Apr 27, 11, 09:13 #157

cms:

There is no reason why wage increases should outstrip inflation - the rationale for wage increases should be increased productivity

I don't question any rationales behind pay increases - I just point things out that contradict your soaring optimism - then again if pay increases are not higher than the inflation people are not getting richer but quite the contrary - if average pay rise equals inflation there's really no point of being overly optimistic
btw cms do you have to read something in Gazeta Wyborcza to believe or even make you wonder - if so there is a suitable link for you - http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896,9494646,Dlug_podtapia_zielona_wysp e__Zadluzenie_wzroslo_o.html

cms:

Lots of food prices actually fell last year

name these - do you mean like olives? - I mean those like potatoes

there is also alarm raised of growing consumer debt (with growing percentage of 'bad credit') - not much optimistic either

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Apr 27, 11, 10:07 #158
cms: There is no reason why wage increases should outstrip inflation - the rationale for wage increases should be increased productivity. Right, and one would think with all the FDI, EU money, and new business models being pumped into Poland, that productivity would be increasing... For stagnant (stable) developed economies, I'd tend to agree with you.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 27, 11, 11:02 #159
convex: Right, and one would think with all the FDI, EU money, and new business models being pumped into Poland, that productivity would be increasing Problem is, many of the lower end workers are still stuck in the Communist mentality - I've heard from more than a few people that these workers simply cannot understand that higher productivity = higher salary.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Apr 27, 11, 13:10 #160
A “LOST GENERATION” of children vulnerable to crime and exploitation is growing up in Eastern Europe as their parents migrate abroad for work and leave them behind, migration watchdogs warn. http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/international-news/7141-bringing-up -a-lost-generation-.html

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Apr 27, 11, 13:15 #161
Basically if you meet the lost generation of Polki who their husbands have left alone in Poland hm,yes,they seem to suffer sometimes I would say...

AdamKadmonThreads: 38 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂	Edited by: AdamKadmon Apr 27, 11, 15:20 #162
delphiandomine: simply cannot understand that higher productivity = higher salary Are you that super-productive?

alexw68

Apr 27, 11, 17:38 #163

AdamKadmon:

Are you that super-productive?

It's not about being a Stakhanovite. It is, though, about not spending the entire day on Gadu-Gadu or tlen. At least with PF one drops in 2 or 3 times a day.

I'm surprised that even small businesses don't have the simple IT skills to blacklist certain sites and prevent software installs on to the desktop. That alone would improve productivity out of sheer boredom.

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May 13, 11, 01:14 #164

Great Britain is easing recruitment requirements for nurses from new EU member states, which may leave Poland facing yet another brain drain, this time in the health sector.

While Polish hospitals are already lacking at least 50,000 nurses, several thousand more of them could up and leave for Britain.

Around 12,000 Polish nurses have migrated for economic reasons since Poland’s entry into the European Union in 2004, according to estimates by a nurse’s trade union.

A decreasing number of young Poles are opting for the profession, says Elżbieta Buczkowska, head of the Main Chamber of Nurses and Midwives, who argues that low pay is one factor turning people away from nursing.

“Unfortunately, we didn’t manage to convince the health minister that so long as the minimum wage is not set at the level of the national average in an employment contract, youth will not choose a job that offers 1,400 – 1,600 zloty [an equivalent of around 360 – 400 euro] basic pay,” stressed Buczkowska.

In March, several nurses carried out a hunger strike at the Lower House of Parliament, while around half a thousand nurses protested in front of the Parliament building in Warsaw.

The protesters demanded the resumption of employment contracts as the sole binding form of taking on the professional group in hospitals, which, they claim, has been detrimental to both nurses and patients.

While up to 220,000 nurses are registered in Poland, 200,000 of them being professionally active, as many as 15,000 Polish nurses work abroad

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	May 13, 11, 01:18 #165
warszawski: While Polish hospitals are already lacking at least 50,000 nurses, several thousand more of them could up and leave for Britain. It won,t be a problem when most of the Poles are in the UK.... A bit worrying for those of us Remaining in Polska....so . if you are not feeling well , better head to the UK to get sick....

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: warszawski May 13, 11, 01:51 #166
wildrover: It won,t be a problem when most of the Poles are in the UK.... There will be an influx of asian doctors/nurses to take the place of the migrating Poles. In 5-10 years time they will wonder why there is so many dark skinned immigrants here. Priceless.

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May 13, 11, 09:26 #167

warszawski:

wildrover:
It won,t be a problem when most of the Poles are in the UK....

There will be an influx of asian doctors/nurses to take the place of the migrating Poles. In 5-10 years time they will wonder why there is so many dark skinned immigrants here. Priceless.

well - I can hardly see all of those Indians and Chinese learning Polish (Poland will not switch to English in 10 years - (nor it will in 20)

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 13, 11, 09:35 #168
gumishu: well - I can hardly see all of those Indians and Chinese learning Polish Thats most likely what the British, Irish thought when they opened their borders to workers from Central/Eastern Europe.

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May 13, 11, 09:41 #169

warszawski:

gumishu:
well - I can hardly see all of those Indians and Chinese learning Polish

Thats most likely what the British, Irish thought when they opened their borders to workers from Central/Eastern Europe.

everybody in the world (sorry for oversimplification) is learning English not Polish - these dark-skinned doctors that you probably know or have seen in Poland all educated here and this is how they obtained their Polish -

you need to know the language well to be a doctor in a given country, wouldn't you agree

it is a different story with say construction teams where it is often enough that one or two guys actually speak any decent English

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Edited by: warszawski May 13, 11, 09:48 #170

gumishu:

everybody in the world (sorry for oversimplification) is learning English not Polish - these dark-skinned doctors that you probably know or have seen in Poland all educated here and this is how they obtained their Polish -

I met a Jordanian Doctor, educated in Poland, who had worked in a Polish hospital in Gdansk for 10 years, now he is back in Jordan working as a tour operator. It is all about the money.

If Poland has a shortage of Doctors and nurses, someone has to fill the void.

gumishu:

you need to know the language well to be a doctor in a given country, wouldn't you agree

If you are a trained specialist, English will do.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 13, 11, 09:58 #171
warszawski: If Poland has a shortage of Doctors and nurses, someone has to fill the void. vets? honestly, one needs to learn Polish to be a doctor in Poland - and as your example shows it is possible only in case you are studying in Poland - you lost some of your touch here I think warszawski

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	May 13, 11, 10:05 #172
gumishu: and as your example shows it is possible only in case you are studying in Poland Doctors are academics, to acquire another language is not a big deal.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	May 13, 11, 10:19 #173
warszawski: gumishu: and as your example shows it is possible only in case you are studying in Poland Doctors are academics, to acquire another language is not a big deal. yeah, sure, most English-expats will tell you that learning Polish is a piece of cake

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