What are Poland's optimal both real and virtual neighbors?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 14, 11, 21:44 #61
Torq: swap Germany for France in the west Thank you :(

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Apr 14, 11, 21:45 #62

JonnyM:

Historically Poland has no claim. On what basis do you pretend it does?

On the same basis you have so conveniently dismissed the previous poster.

JonnyM:

As no doubt you know, it wasn't under any sort Polish control - not since the Treaty of Oliwa anyway. Kaliningrad was always German. No Polish government has ever asserted a claim of sovereignty regardless of whatever you pretend.

Always? Are you sure?

JonnyM:

Well, those of us who live in Poland have never heard of anything like that

Then I must be an exception then, but since I’m here and claim otherwise it does make your statement wrong then.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Apr 14, 11, 21:45 #63
Bratwurst Boy: Thank you :( Hey - it would still be only two hours flight away (and think about all those annoying car thieves going to France instead of Germany!)

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Apr 14, 11, 21:53 #64

Torq:

I would move Hungary in place of Slovakia, swap Germany for France in the west, Czechs, Ukrainians
and Belarus can stay where they are. In addition, I would exchange Lithunia for Ireland (similar in size,
so should fit in well) and give Kaliningrad district to China with full rights for all Chinese citizens to travel
to and fro between Kaliningrad and China proper he he :)

you have a bunch of great ideas ;) - maybe except that Slovakian part

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Edited by: JonnyM Apr 14, 11, 21:56 #65

ShortHairThug:

On the same basis you have so conveniently dismissed the previous poster.

Now you've simply stopped making sense. Not unusual when someone picks a fight then loses.

ShortHairThug:

Always? Are you sure?

Perhaps you know otherwise - some long forgotten pre-industrial era with no relevance to the present. Very long forgotten since it didn't even fall into Polish hands after the battle of Grunwald. Though as you no doubt know, perhaps from Discovery Channel or the cap of a Tarczyń bottle, Poland tried unsuccessfully to invade it shortly after 1500. And of course the Duchy of Prussia issue. Still Prussian though.

ShortHairThug:

Then I must be an exception then, but since I’m here and claim otherwise it does make your statement wrong then.

Interesting to see you squirm. It makes no difference. No Polish government has made a claim on Kaliningrad and there is no significant movement for Poland to annexe it. Perhaps you should start one and march round town with placards.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Apr 14, 11, 22:03 #66
Torq: Hey - it would still be only two hours flight away (and think about all those annoying car thieves going to France instead of Germany!) And the football??? Can you imagine a 'ski playing for Les Bleus???? Nooooooooooooooooooooooo

MEMBER ♂

Apr 14, 11, 22:11 #67

Bratwurst Boy:

And the football??? Can you imagine a 'ski playing for Les Bleus?

Hmm... good point, but then again - French, with all their former African colonies, and black players,
wouldn't have to take our Kloses and Podolskis from us. But then again, we wouldn't have all those
good used farming machines and reliable cars (some of them totally free of charge he he), and in case of
Russian invasion we would have French army behind our backs instead of Bundeswehr (which might be either
a good thing or a bad thing.) Decisions, decisons...

♂

Apr 14, 11, 22:38 #68

JonnyM:

some long forgotten pre-industrial era with no relevance to the present.

Everything that happen in history is relevant to the present, simply ignoring it or choosing the bits you like that suit your point of view and to reinforce them does not allow you to make a rational argument on any count. It’s all very much relevant
.
Ie. If for some reason a distant ancestor of yours was impotent or for some reason did not claim the woman that he did as his wife or whatnot the chain would have been broken and you simply would not be here to present your point of view. Your family line did not magically happen to appear at a convenient point in history like the dawn of industrial revolution.

You can dismiss the facts all you want but the simple truth is you can’t change the history. I have to give you credit for distorting it a great deal and making a mess of it in the process. So do tell me what’s the point of turning this into a history lesson and educate you when you resilience to knowledge is so strong? You will simply shrug it all off, throw in a few insults and call it a day. Wow! You lose, is that the best way for someone who aspires to be viewed as half an intelligent person to close the debate? Kind of childish but I’ll oblige.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Apr 14, 11, 22:47 #69
Wow. Squirming on an epic level! Nothing alters that fact that Kaliningrad isn't Polish, Poland doesn't have a claim on it, no Polish government has ever asserted any claim and there is no movement within Poland to annexe Kaliningrad. However you try to justify losing an argument, these facts remain unchanged.

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Edited by: ShortHairThug Apr 14, 11, 23:26 #70

Like I said, what’s the point to carry on a discussion with a dimwit individual who doesn’t know the meaning of the word debate. If I wanted an argument I might as well could of picked one with my wife, but that would have been an insult to her, at least she knows how to present her argument in a half intelligent way and can make a supporting argument as to why her reasoning is the way it is, a skill that you have failed to present here, you failed so miserably. I haven’t started to debate you yet, just probing your knowledge on the subject matter, but there’s nothing there except an opinion to which any as*hole is entitled. If I had to make an comparison to what this experience has been like I would have to say you’re just like my as*hole, it’s also very opinionated especially after certain kind of food and speaks loudly in a foreign language but it only all makes a perfect sense to another as*hole, I’ll bet. Win? Lose? No such thing in a debate, you simply present your point of view with supporting arguments that are logical and easily absorbed and understood by a casual listener. The more converts you gain to your point of view the better but there’s no such thing as winning.

strzygaThreads: 4 Posts: 988 Joined: Apr 30, 08 ♀	Apr 14, 11, 23:59 #71
Torq: I would move Hungary in place of Slovakia, swap Germany for France in the west, Czechs, Ukrainiansand Belarus can stay where they are. Then let's move Slovakia in place of Belarus, and Belarus in place of Hungary. I'd be closer to Spisz and Poprad hot springs and the Belarussians might enjoy being neighbours with Austria and Serbia. Crow might like it too.

♂ [Suspended]

Apr 15, 11, 02:37 #72

ShortHairThug:

Wrong on both counts, there was a time when it was under Polish control so you can’t say Poland never did asserted its claim, as for the latter you speak for every person in Poland now. LOL

Most people in Poland couldn't care less about Kaliningrad.

Vilnius and L'viv, sure - but Kaliningrad?

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of Poles (even the PiS voting ones) only want the land that they had during the II RP back - nothing else.

justwondering	Apr 15, 11, 03:56 #73
delphiandomine: As far as I can tell, the vast majority of Poles (even the PiS voting ones) only want the land that they had during the II RP back - nothing else. Interesting. Are they also willing to give back the land that they didn't have during the II RP?

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM Apr 15, 11, 04:04 #74
ShortHairThug: Like I said, what’s the point Still meaningless bluster. Whatever you say doesn't alter the facts. That there isn't any significant movement within PL to annexe Kaliningrad, there isn't a legal vasis for any claim, and no Polish government have ever asserted one.

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Apr 15, 11, 04:16 #75
Optimal...? In what way? Why just European countries? I think it would benefit from being sandwiched between Argentina and Japan... But who wouldn't?

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Apr 15, 11, 09:08 #76

delphiandomine:

As far as I can tell, the vast majority of Poles (even the PiS voting ones) only want the land that they had during the II RP back - nothing else.

as far as I can tell the vast majority of Poles don't bother about Lwów and Wilno and are only moved by the Lithuanians reducing Polish minority rights = only some young hotheads envision Poland back in Lwów and Wilno (i used to when I was much younger)

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Apr 26, 11, 11:35 #77

Nathan:

Germany, the Czech republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Belorus, Lithuania and Russian Federation.

Well I live in Canada and havent been to Poland in over 15 years but here are my opinions.

Germany: I think Polands relationship with Germany is on fairly good terms
Czech and Slovakia: Czechs and Slovaks I cant really say. They are very similar to us in some matters.
Ukraine: I dont have anything bad to say about Ukraine really. East Ukraine is mostly Russian speaking and some of them wouldnt mind rejoining Russia. West Ukraine is mostly Ukraine speaking. They are quite nationalistic.
Belarus: I am not sure.
Lithuania: I personally have no problems with them.
Russia: is a VERY complex situation. Either Poland has to have aid from the west or from Russians or mix it somehow -_-

(If I have any misinformation please correct).

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Edited by: Nathan Apr 26, 11, 15:34 #78

Ashleys mind:

Optimal...? In what way?

In a very direct way. Among various choices there is often one which is optimal.

Ashleys mind:

Why just European countries?

Because, first of all, nobody gives a damn about non-Europe and, secondly, Poland, I have no idea how, ended up neighboring only European states.

legend:

I dont have anything bad to say about Ukraine really

You better not :)

legend:

Belarus: I am not sure.

legend:

Czechs and Slovaks I cant really say.

legend:

Russia: is a VERY complex situation

legend:

If I have any misinformation please correct

But you didn't say a thing ;) How can you be wrong?

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,353 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Apr 26, 11, 16:55 #79
West Ukraine should become part of Poland. Most of the citizens there have some Polish blood anyway. Welcome to Polokrania.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Apr 26, 11, 17:13 #80
legend: (If I have any misinformation please correct). you actually said nothing, so you'll be fine

vlad_i

May 20, 11, 18:11 #81

If I may add something first we should discuss what neighbors we do not like, whom we like and why one should go or stay:

We do not like:

1. Germans (because they invaded us in WWII and they are stupid - they do not know when and how we cheat them)

2. Russians (they are smarter than Germans and they cannot be cheated so easily, but we do not like them because of communism and because they grabbed Ukraine and Belarus, not us)

3. Lithuanians (we do not care about Lithuanians, so we don't like)

4. Czechs (because they are cowards, they didn't fight in WWII and they drive only Skodas)

5. Slovaks (they screwed up - we liked them in the past when beer was cheap there, but now they entered eurozone!)

6. Ukrainians (one big mess, although they’ve got nice chicks, chicks we like)

7. Byelorussians (maybe we could even like them but who knows who those folks are??)

8. Ourselves (because we are Polish)

And we like:

...

So you can see everything must be changed in the region.

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