1945-2010 Poles will march on Red square

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May 8, 10, 22:23 #1

As soon as few hours Polish soldiers will march on Red square in Moscow.
However polonophobic I am, yet even I, this moment, hope that Poland and Russia will be friend eventually. When it comes to prudence, I leave my specific views out of account, but where is the country in Europe, which suffered more than Poland and SU.

Hope, this common parade will serve us for our furture reciprocal affection.
Hope, you still remember that it was your victory as well.
Hope, you will forgive us some misdeeds towards your country in the past.

S prazdnikom, dear friends and brothers!

TITThreads: 9 Posts: 353 Joined: Jan 7, 10 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:24 #2
French, Italian, British not coming... only Komorowski the puppet

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:31 #3
Kostia, it is not called Red Square anymore. I heard this from a Russian writer who lives in Poland; he called it The Beautiful Square. Is that true?

PaulinaThreads: 2 Posts: 561 Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀	May 8, 10, 22:32 #4
TIT: French, Italian, British not coming... They weren't present also at the funeral of president Kaczyński and his wife. President Medvedev came and Poles appreciated this. And so Komorowski will be present at the parade in Moscow.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:33 #5
I sense that Poland is being lulled into a false sense of security and partnership. I'd like to feel otherwise but sth is up.

MEMBER ♂

May 8, 10, 22:34 #6

ConstantineK:

hope that Poland and Russia will be friend eventually

ConstantineK:

where is the country in Europe, which suffered more than Poland and SU.

ConstantineK:

Hope, this common parade will serve us for our furture reciprocal affection.
Hope, you still remember that it was your victory as well.
Hope, you will forgive us some misdeeds towards your country in the past.

S prazdnikom, dear friends and brothers!

*profoundly shocked*

We have to notify the administration - someone has hacked Constantine's account!

PaulinaThreads: 2 Posts: 561 Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀	May 8, 10, 22:43 #7
Seanus: I sense that Poland is being lulled into a false sense of security and partnership. I'd like to feel otherwise but sth is up. Well, I think Poles know well enough that with Russia we have to have our eyes on the back of our heads ;) But it won't hurt to try and make our relations with Russia better, I think.

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Edited by: 1jola May 8, 10, 22:45 #8

The Poles march at 116 steps/min. and the Russians at 122. Since it is in Russia, our guys need to adjust to the hosts.

The French Foreign Legion has this death march step that is a sight, but I don't think they are coming.

Also notable is the marching pace of the Legion. In comparison to the 120-step-per-minute pace of other French units, the Legion has an 88-step-per-minute marching speed. It is also referred by Legionnaires as the crawl. This can be seen at ceremonial parades and public displays attended by the Legion, particularly while parading in Paris on 14 July (Bastille Day).

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:46 #9
TIT: French, Italian, British not coming... Really? I read the Brits send a music band...

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:50 #10
Torq: profoundly shocked It's Saturday night, he's probably tanked. :)

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May 8, 10, 22:52 #11

1jola:

Kostia, it is not called Red Square anymore. I heard this from a Russian writer who lives in Poland; he called it The Beautiful Square. Is that true?

In Russian "red" sometimes, especially in old language, means "beautiful"

Torq:

We have to notify the administration - someone has hacked Constantine's account!

It dosen't mean I will cease my attempts of showing you the vanity of polish way.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	May 8, 10, 22:56 #12
ConstantineK: In Russian "red" sometimes, especially in old language, means "beautiful" Oh, as in Krasnaya Kraina? Been there.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	May 9, 10, 02:45 #13
ConstantineK: Hope, you still remember that it was your victory as well. Remember, did Poles invade SU during ww2? Were they marching towards Stalingrad or Moscow with the Wehrmacht? Were they not the people who put on their bayonets to fight the Nazis? :) There are good things to look after if you look closely enough

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: Chicago Pollock May 9, 10, 06:38 #14
Reading these posts it appears that the Poles are much more forgiving to the Russians than you are to the Germans. But when one looks at history, the Russians can be just as brutal as the Germans (ex.Katyrn Forest (Sp?)., attacking Polish forces while they were being attacked by Germany, they partitioned your country in cooperation with the Germans, etc.) Why?

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq May 9, 10, 07:45 #15

Chicago Pollock:

Reading these posts it appears that the Poles are much more forgiving to the Russians than you are to the Germans.

Chicago Pollock:

Why?

Because Russians didn't slaughter 6 million Polish citizens, didn't consider Poles
to be "untermenschen" (something between a man and an animal fit only to
become slaves or be exterminated) but rather their Slavic cousins.

Sure - Russians had their gulags and commited crimes as well, but somehow they
didn't see fit to burn us in crematories or manufacture soap out of our skins - that's
got to count too!

Russians didn't refuse Poles the very right to existence, sure - we were their satellite,
but we had our country and we could use our limited freedom and live, learn and work.

The general attitude of an average Russian towards Poles is one of sympathy and kinship,
the general attitude of an average German is unfortunately still very different than that.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq May 9, 10, 08:20 #16
I'm just listening to Miedwiediew's speech on RussiaToday - he makes a lot of sense. 8:33 AM - Poland has just marched :-)

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Edited by: Stu May 9, 10, 11:53 #17

TIT:

British not coming

Well ... I saw a lot of men in the Guards' summer outfit with bearskins on their heads "turning eyes right". So unless the Russians put some of their own in these uniforms, I am guessing the Brits were there. Well ... probably those who like complot theories have something else to talk about.

And you know what? I guess I saw AngelaM as well, which gives me reason to believe that at least there are people in this world, who don't only look at what happened in the past, but also try to look forward. Maybe a good idea for some on this forum as well.

Now don't come and whine that he or she lost family members because of what the Nazi's did and so they have the God-given right to still be outraged 65 years after VE-Day. So did my family, but generations change, you know. We have to be vigilant that history doesn't repeat itself, and some don't see that by excluding a whole nation, we are walking down the exact same path.

Have a look at this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8452937.stm); why would even a radical muslim (whom quite a lot of the people here wouldn't even want as their next door neighbour), be able to forgive his Guantanamo guard when some of the people here (who haven't even lived through WWII) aren't able to look at current day Germans and Russians without wanting to hold them responsible for what their forefathers did?

Just a thought on this Sunday ... .

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 9, 10, 12:29 #18
Paulina, true. However, Tusk is at the helm and he calls the shots!

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Edited by: Borrka May 9, 10, 12:42 #19

Seanus:

I sense that Poland is being lulled into a false sense of security and partnership.

It's obvious to me but at some political level only.

The average Vanias are rather nice sort of chaps - kind hearted, they believe every fairy tale from dyadya Putin.
And take it for granted - I know it - even our Kostik after expressing his quasi "Polonophobic" sentiments here, uses to start an old VHS video recorder and watch the black and white TV series "Four tank men and a dog".
Urrraaa !!!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 9, 10, 12:56 #20
LOL! I meant at the political level, yes. Tusk and Komorowski think they are onto sth good, I hope they are not merely misguided. Working with Russia is a nice idea but Poland must think practically and not romantically.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	May 9, 10, 13:15 #21
Seanus: Working with Russia is a nice idea but Poland must think practically and not romantically. As far as I can tell, they've adopted the old Reagan doctrine of "Trust, but verify". No bad thing, I think.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 9, 10, 15:02 #22

ConstantineK:

Hope, this common parade will serve us for our furture reciprocal affection.
Hope, you still remember that it was your victory as well.
Hope, you will forgive us some misdeeds towards your country in the past.

S prazdnikom, dear friends and brothers!

That is more like it. i second that, good on you.

Well done to our proud eastern neighbor for doing so much to defeat fascism, and having the strength to turn away from communism.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	May 9, 10, 18:03 #23
Stu: the Guards' Welsh Guards and a RAF band attended.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	May 9, 10, 18:50 #24
Was Obama there or did he have another golf game?

grethomoryThreads: 2 Posts: 212 Joined: Mar 19, 08 ♂	May 9, 10, 19:00 #25
Trevek: Was Obama there or did he have another golf game? What did Obama need to be there for?

czarThreads: 4 Posts: 248 Joined: Mar 3, 10 ♂	May 10, 10, 04:33 #26
russia is trying everything to avoid the issue of war reparations to Poland.

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May 10, 10, 11:39 #27

ConstantineK:

As soon as few hours Polish soldiers will march on Red square in Moscow.
However polonophobic I am, yet even I, this moment, hope that Poland and Russia will be friend eventually. When it comes to prudence, I leave my specific views out of account, but where is the country in Europe, which suffered more than Poland and SU.

Hope, this common parade will serve us for our furture reciprocal affection.
Hope, you still remember that it was your victory as well.
Hope, you will forgive us some misdeeds towards your country in the past.

S prazdnikom, dear friends and brothers!

Well said Constantine. You sound like you have an open mind.

You're suggestion of forgiveness shows that you are humble.

Although I'm sure Russia and Poland will continue to have their differences, its always good for countries that have had tensions, to try to get along.

The past Polish Pope seemed to have a good relationship with the former Russian leader Mr. Gorbachev. Although the Polish Pope didn't like the Soviet Union, he generally liked the Russian people.

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Edited by: ConstantineK May 10, 10, 13:07 #28

MediaWatch:

The past Polish Pope seemed to have a good relationship with the former Russian leader Mr. Gorbachev. Although the Polish Pope didn't like the Soviet Union, he generally liked the Russian people.

Stop! Please stop! No more words further! Don't mention here:

1. Gorbachev
2. Yeltsin
3. Shevardnadze
4. Kozirev etc.

Traitors, traitors, traitors.... My natural sympathy to Poles, for they are, non the less our kin, cannot be extended far to the polish government and policy. I suppose that it is greatly influenced by Anglo-American tendency. Despite the fact that sometimes we feel guilty of the past, it is beyond any doubts we will not stop at next series of partitions, if only this influence will endanger Russian interests.

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May 10, 10, 19:53 #29

1jola:

I heard this from a Russian writer who lives in Poland; he called it The Beautiful Square. Is that true?

Jola,
Red=krasny (czerwony is understandable too)
beatiful=prekrasny. Krasny is an archaism for "beautiful", still used poetically though and in set expression like "krasna devica"=a beautiful gal.

Torq:

We have to notify the administration - someone has hacked Constantine's account!

Exactly. :)

Borrka:

And take it for granted

take on trust you mean?

Borrka:

"Four tank men and a dog".

Whatever you say Boria I don't think it eventually played any bad role. Just try to step into my shoes... I was like 7 years old when watched my first Polish movies with gusto. Yes they probably overshadowed all the pitfalls of our relationship but on the other hand they taught me to see things in friendly perspective.

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Edited by: Borrka May 10, 10, 21:13 #30

Sasha:

they probably overshadowed all the pitfalls of our relationship

Sasha, "Chetiriye tankisty" movie created a false picture and understanding of the Russo-Polish relationship among at least two generations of "Soviet people".
And then, after perestroika (oh, how I hate this expression) many Russians were completely surprised - what's going on !? Our eternal friends and brothers in arms don't love us anymore !
You can see the results on Russian Internet boards today.

But it was not the case in Poland - our views were by far more realistic.

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