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Polish-American soldier and his wife murdered by four marines

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gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:04 #91
Seanus: Today, 18:02 Report #90 Look at the song Jeremy in Pearl Jam. That was a tragic day, gun-related of course. A vital lesson wasn't learned and multiple killings ensued. A gun is just too much of a bargaining tool. If you have resorted to quoting Pearl Jam to make a point you have already lost. Death by firing squad is your punishment.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:08 #92
gtd: If you have resorted to quoting Pearl Jam to make a point you have already lost. What exactly has Seanus lost?

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07 ♂	Edited by: King Sobieski Nov 10, 08, 18:08 #93
gtd: Well thankfully you do not legislate in the USA :) am i dumb enough (in bush's instance)? maybe dont answer that.

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Edited by: gtd Nov 10, 08, 18:10 #94
King Sobieski: am i dumb enough (in bush's instance)? Apparently so since Bush is a part of the executive and not legislative branch. IronsE11: What exactly has Seanus lost? His dignity...but that has nothing to do with this topic ;)

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:18 #95
gtd: Apparently so since Bush is a part of the executive and not legislative branch. being known as dumb for not knowing the usa legislative process is something i can live with.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:18 #96
It showed how responsible some parents were by letting their kids get hold of their guns. Pearl Jam, being a HUGE grunge outfit at the time, issued a social commentary which the masses listened to. What, they weren't allowed to? They were wrong? Sorry, America loves drama and sensationalising sometimes. It created a phenomenon of sorts. People became ignorant as to what guns could really do.

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:20 #97
Seanus: Sorry, America loves drama and sensationalising sometimes. From a Brit? Hahaha....that is rich my boy. You guys invented drama. We just imported it when we escaped the tyranny. You are so far off the point I know you are scrambling now.

♂

Nov 10, 08, 18:25 #98

gtd:

Apparently so since Bush is a part of the executive and not legislative branch.

Bush has adopted the practice of appending whatever legislation sent to him that offends his Royal Hines, (a signing statement). In the signing statement he lets it be known that he may ignore the law signed by him. By means of an “Executive Order” the king can expand his authority and bypass any Law or create his own. Do you still insist on executive branch? More like a dictatorship but you still insist you have Democracy.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:27 #99
I'm talking about America's propensity towards sensationalising incidents such as the Jeremy case. Rappers singing about Murder Was the Case and guns in general is another. Movies, everywhere.

gtdThreads: 3 Posts: 875 Joined: Sep 8, 08 ♂	Nov 10, 08, 18:29 #100
Piorun: you still insist you have Democracy We have a democratic republic...I am quite clear on the difference.

♂

Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 14, 08, 21:52 #101

Thread attached on merging:
Polish-American Marine & Wife Tortured & Murdered by Four Animals in USA

Polish-American Marine and Wife Tortured and Murdered by Black Enlisted Men

I was shocked, to say the least, to learn that Marine Sgt. Jan Pawel Pietrzak and his wife Quiana Pietrzak were tortured and killed. But what is even more shocking is that they were killed at the hands of four black men who were under his command. The monsters, Emrys John, Kesuan Sykes, Kevin Cox and Tyrone Miller, have been charged with the heinous crimes. Why did they do it? According to the NY Daily News, for money. They confessed that they were looking for an easy score. According the the NY Daily News, three of them ratted out Pvt. Emrys John as the triggerman who ended the torture of the young couple, by shooting them in the back of their heads. All of the suspects say that Quiana Jenkins-Pietrzak was sexually assaulted, but each says it was the other three who did it, the papers have said.

thecwexperience

This story has been 'blacked-out' by American media for 'guess what reason'?...I thought it might be of interest to PF readers....Originally reported on ABC online and the NY Daily News.

pingwinThreads: 3 Posts: 164 Joined: Feb 2, 07 ♀	Nov 14, 08, 22:07 #102
Same as the following thread: http://www.polishforums.com/polish_american_soldier_his_wife-4_29512_0 .html

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 22:31 #103
Seanus: U don't know the full story tho, no disrespect. I don't either so that's why I don't go making snap judgments The full story is that it was a race murder/rape commited by four blacks, and for this reason, the press in the USA will not touch it.

polishcanuckThreads: 10 Posts: 583 Joined: Feb 11, 07 ♂	Nov 15, 08, 10:18 #104
joepilsudski: The full story is that it was a race murder/rape commited by four blacks, and for this reason, the press in the USA will not touch it. True dat.

♂

Nov 16, 08, 01:55 #105

joepilsudski:

The full story is that it was a race murder/rape commited by four blacks, and for this reason, the press in the USA will not touch it.

And again, where is all the "holocaust survivors" and "Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Push Co." ?????????????????????

No ones screaming hate crime! On top of that they wont even call a spade a spade.

So again, and again, only whites commit "hate crimes"? So the Jews will say....

Are these the things White people have to look forward to now that Barack Obama the "half baked half breed" black man is president???????

♂

Nov 16, 08, 03:03 #106

Warsaw8:

No ones screaming hate crime!

Enough people are actually. (Although it does leave room for debate, because one of the murderers has admitted to be a Crip general, and we don't know everything about the past of this particular woman, so this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with race.)

Warsaw8:

Are these the things White people have to look forward to now that Barack Obama the "half baked half breed" black man is president???????

I really don't think so? The murderers were caught, and will get what they deserve according to law. It's still a crime and it's still not tolerated? I fail to see how Obama can be held accountable or even be responsible for the extreme behaviour of people. (In general.)

Guns should be banned from society for personal and private use, unless you're a professional hunter. I'm perfectly able to sum up the destructive influence guns have on your country, so do humour me as to why you would think that guns are needed somehow..

You'll have to do better than: ''Bad people carry guns.''

Hey, even good people can be made bad? That's no excuse.

Or this lame attempt at philosophy: ''Guns don't kill people, people do.''

Someone could shoot a body builder twice his or her size with a gun, but without a gun, such persons will most likely not try that out. Someone could shoot up his or her whole class with a gun, but without a gun he or she can't fight, or in cases of knife-crime, even stab the whole class?

So my reply would be: ''Guns don't kill people, but they sure as hell make it easier to do so.'' How many more schools will have to get shot up before you realize that I'm right and you're wrong?

But please, go ahead and humour me. (You know, a gun only has one purpose, and one purpose only, because I'm not talking about a hunting rifle here.) So again, why do you need a gun?

Do you fix things in your house with a gun? Seriously, why do you need one?

Repeat after me: So I can defend myself if necessary, because if I'm honest it's just that I'm scared of other people who might carry a gun.

So if guns were banned from society, you wouldn't have to be that scared anymore, because maybe 5% of the people will still carry a gun. (Like over here.) Buying bullets may turn out to be a bit of a problem though. Now, with that idea in mind, you would only have to worry about the few people who are crazy enough to carry a knife, but really, if you are, just a few lessons in Aikido might restore your confidence?

You'll have to excuse my sense of humour, but I'm serious, most people aren't violent by nature. I really believe that it's the whole idea of people carrying guns that instills fear and paranoia, which probably results in a negative atmosphere, which probably results in more violence.

Vicious circle?

♂

Nov 16, 08, 05:00 #107

Arien:

So if guns were banned from society, you wouldn't have to be that scared anymore, because maybe 5% of the people will still carry a gun. (Like over here.)

Please refer to the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. Specifically the District of Columbia v. Heller (June 26, 2008), to protect an individuals right to possess and carry weapons ( "keep and bear arms").

In the USA I guarantee you that you could not keep guns off the black market. Five, ten, whatever percent is not the point.

The point is that the evil in society will have greater access to weapons of destruction. All of this at the expense of the good, honest, & hard working members of society.

♂

Nov 16, 08, 13:11 #108

Babinich:

The point is that the evil in society will have greater access to weapons of destruction. All of this at the expense of the good, honest, & hard working members of society.

That's why we have a Police force? (Police officers will also be able to do a better job when less people are likely to carry a firearm?) Oh, and a society (Or even a world!) which is neatly divided into good and evil people doesn't exist, it's usually a lot more complicated than that. A good person could turn into a bad person. A bad person could turn into good person aswell. All depends on the circumstances and lessons learned?

I really believe in the idea of a better equipped and perhaps in general, a more specialized Police force? (I can easily imagine an increasing sense of disrespect for the law when almost everyone is allowed to carry a gun?)

I wish we could wait for a better world, but I'm afraid we'll have to change things ourselves to make it happen?

♂

Edited by: Babinich Nov 16, 08, 20:19 #109

Arien:

That's why we have a Police force? (Police officers will also be able to do a better job when less people are likely to carry a firearm?)

First off I choose to defend myself. It is my right to do so according to the Second Amendment.

Second, good people who own guns are not a threat to the police. If guns are taken off the market, the bad guys are the majority in possession of firearms.

That means the level of danger says constant because the police do not have to fear the good, respectful gun owner but they do have to fear those armed harboring bad intentions.

Arien:

Oh, and a society (Or even a world!) which is neatly divided into good and evil people doesn't exist, it's usually a lot more complicated than that.

I respectfully disagree; evil is evil. It cannot be quantified or qualified.

♂

Nov 17, 08, 04:23 #110

Babinich:

First off I choose to defend myself. It is my right to do so according to the Second Amendment.

There would be little to no reason to defend yourself at all if guns were banned from society.

Babinich:

Second, good people who own guns are not a threat to the police. If guns are taken off the market, the bad guys are the majority in possession of firearms.

I was actually talking about the people who are a threat to the Police, and ofcourse that's partly due to guns being available in stores. How to make it easy for a criminal I wonder? (Hey, it couldn't get any easier?)

Babinich:

That means the level of danger says constant because the police do not have to fear the good, respectful gun owner but they do have to fear those armed harboring bad intentions.

Even the good, and respectful gun owner could get into a psychosis? (Do you know what a psychosis is?) My point, even good people can sometimes do extreme things that they normally wouldn't do.

Babinich:

I respectfully disagree; evil is evil. It cannot be quantified or qualified.

Again, too simple for me. If killing is evil, then what is the difference between a soldier and a gangmember? (Or like the above article, being a gangmember and a soldier at the same time?) Again, it's not black and white, good and evil..

Oh, and ofcourse corrupt Police officers also exist. Priests who abuse children also exist. So who is good and who is evil? Now, Robin Hood was a criminal according to the Sherrif, but he did good things..

If you divide the world into good and evil, it only shows you haven't been through much yet? If you were a good person at heart, but grew up in a rough neighbourhood which was infested with gangs, then you would have to seriously consider joining one of these gangs just to survive. (And not because you enjoy being a criminal!)

Give me one reason why people should carry guns for private use other than for hunting purposes. (So they can defend eachother from eachother?)

I guess I might aswell talk to a wall?

♂

Edited by: Babinich Nov 17, 08, 04:47 #111

Arien:

There would be little to no reason to defend yourself at all if guns were banned from society.

Do you have faith in God?

Arien:

If killing is evil, then what is the difference between a soldier and a gangmember? [sic]

Please refer to the Ten Commandments: Killing is not necessarily evil; murder is evil.

Arien:

Oh, and ofcourse [sic] corrupt Police officers also exist. Priests who abuse children also exist. So who is good and who is evil?

The profession of the individual does not guarantee morality. It is the person that is responsible for their own acts.

Arien:

Now, Robin Hood was a criminal according to the Sherrif, [sic] but he did good things..

He did good things? For who did he do good things? What cost went into these 'good' acts?

Arien:

If you divide the world into good and evil, it only shows you haven't been through much yet? If you were a good person at heart, but grew up in a rough neighbourhood [sic] which was infested with gangs, then you would have to seriously consider joining one of these gangs just to survive. (And not because you enjoy being a criminal!)

Oh, I've been through plenty.

To say that a person is forced into a gang and then performs an act of violence because they are coerced is quite a stretch. They have free will NOT to commit that act of violence. According to your argument, the person being coerced would never have to go join a gang because they can go to the police for protection.

As far as the world divided into good and evil, it is. Never once did I say that a person could not be contrite.
My point is that a person cannot commit sins/crimes/violations intermittently and proclaim themselves as a good person.

Arien:

I guess I might aswell [sic] talk to a wall?

Thank you for the beautiful example of an ad hominem attack. :')

♂

Nov 17, 08, 05:19 #112

Babinich:

Do you have faith in God?

I leave that open, because it's obvious that if there is a God, he gave us free will, and so if there is a God, I think WE have to DO things for eachother to make life better for ALL of us.

Babinich:

Please refer to the Ten Commandments: Killing is not necessarily evil; murder is evil.

I don't refer to anything except common sense. (Anyway, the first commandment says: Thou shalt NOT kill, so NOT means NOT. It doesn't mean not necessarily.)

Let me rephrase that into another question; If you kill someone, does that make you feel good? (Or, does thinking about killing someone make you feel good?) I think healthy people will answer that question with a no. (Because deep down you know that killing another human being is wrong.)

Babinich:

The profession of the individual does not guarantee morality. It is the person that is responsible for their own acts.

Exactly. So even respectable and hard working people have a profession, and that doesn't guarantee morality either!

Babinich:

To say that a person is forced into a gang and then performs an act of violence because they are coerced is quite a stretch.

No it isn't.

Babinich:

They have free will NOT to commit that act of violence.

True, but you know that's not the way it works. When you have gangs in your neighbourhood, intimidating you, threatening to kill you or your family, then you might be too scared to refuse? (Again, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be!) Once you're in, there's a small chance that you're getting out alive..

Babinich:

According to your argument, the person being coerced would never have to go join a gang because they can go to the police for protection.

According to my argument, people wouldn't have easy access to guns, making it more difficult to start a gang, and easier for the Police to repress gangs. Resulting in a possibly much safer environment, where people actually feel safe enough to go to the Police at all.

Babinich:

Thank you for the beautiful example of an ad hominem attack.

Hey, you're welcome, no real harm intended there!

♂

Nov 17, 08, 08:45 #113

Arien:

I leave that open, because it's obvious that if there is a God, he gave us free will, and so if there is a God, I think WE have to DO things for eachother to make life better for ALL of us.

Do you have faith that guns can be eliminated from society?

Arien:

I don't refer to anything except common sense. (Anyway, the first commandment says: Thou shalt NOT kill, so NOT means NOT. It doesn't mean not necessarily.)

Sorry, that is a common misconception. You need to brush up on the Ten Commandments.

Arien:

When you have gangs in your neighbourhood, intimidating you, threatening to kill you or your family, then you might be too scared to refuse?

Or, you might ask yourself what conditions exists that make gangs a reality. The other action you can take is to arm yourself to protect your family. If your child joins a gang your familial troubles do not end; they are just beginning. Your child's decision to join a gang puts the entire family in harms way.

Arien:

Let me rephrase that into another question; If you kill someone, does that make you feel good?

This question is a non sequitur; but I'll answer it anyways: No.

Arien:

Hey, you're welcome, no real harm intended there!

I know; hence the smiley...

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Nov 17, 08, 10:02 #114
Arien: Guns should be banned from society for personal and private use, unless you're a professional hunter. I'm perfectly able to sum up the destructive influence guns have on your country, so do humour me as to why you would think that guns are needed somehow.. You are a fool.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06 ♂	Nov 17, 08, 10:21 #115
perhaps but hes a european fool which makes him smart when compared to an american

FranekThreads: 21 Posts: 525 Joined: Apr 12, 08 ♂	Nov 17, 08, 10:40 #116
Arien you are living in a dream world. You know nothing about America. Why do you people tell we Americans how to live. This is our land.. Stay the hell out of our business.For your information, gun sales in the US are booming since the election. People are lined up to purchase them.. Hmm! I wonder why????

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06 ♂	Nov 17, 08, 10:44 #117
as is was saying...

♂

Nov 17, 08, 10:47 #118

Arien:

But please, go ahead and humour me. (You know, a gun only has one purpose, and one purpose only, because I'm not talking about a hunting rifle here.) So again, why do you need a gun?

Do you fix things in your house with a gun? Seriously, why do you need one?

Repeat after me: So I can defend myself if necessary, because if I'm honest it's just that I'm scared of other people who might carry a gun.

So if guns were banned from society, you wouldn't have to be that scared anymore, because maybe 5% of the people will still carry a gun. (Like over here.) Buying bullets may turn out to be a bit of a problem though. Now, with that idea in mind, you would only have to worry about the few people who are crazy enough to carry a knife, but really, if you are, just a few lessons in Aikido might restore your confidence?

You'll have to excuse my sense of humour, but I'm serious, most people aren't violent by nature. I really believe that it's the whole idea of people carrying guns that instills fear and paranoia, which probably results in a negative atmosphere, which probably results in more violence.

Vicious circle?

generally, i'm pretty leftist but seeing as you asked an open question, i'll try to give you a succinct answer.
Why not try to make America a gunless society? Because then only the criminals will have them.

America's founding fathers insisted on the right to bear arms to ensure that the nation have the freedom to revolt should the people's leaders ever abuse power or become tyrants.

And what causes more deaths in the u.s., motor vehicles or guns? If the answer is motor vehicles (i know, i know, it's people not the implement but for the sake of brevity on this one) would you want to ban those?

I'd sooner look at the failings of the education system as to why there is so much violent crime.

Warsaw8Threads: 7 Posts: 227 Joined: Jul 23, 08 ♂	Nov 17, 08, 23:48 #119
Hey Arian, why dont you tell us how you Really feel? LOL And why do almost all of your sentences end with a question mark? Are you asking us those stupid questions or giving your opinion?

♂

Edited by: Arien Nov 19, 08, 04:31 #120

Franek:

Arien you are living in a dream world. You know nothing about America.

Do some research on my last name, and I'm sure you'll be able to find out exactly how much I know about America.

You my friend, know nothing about me.

Franek:

Why do you people tell we Americans how to live.

Why do you people tell us Americans how to live. (question mark.)

We might aswell tell you how to spell too?

Franek:

This is our land.. Stay the hell out of our business.

Your country usually doesn't stay out of our business either, besides, I live in a democratic country, I have freedom of speech and am just as much entitled to my vieuws and opinions as you are.

Franek:

For your information, gun sales in the US are booming since the election. People are lined up to purchase them.. Hmm! I wonder why????

I wonder about that too.

Warsaw8:

Hey Arian, why dont you tell us how you Really feel?

Some of your friends know exactly where I live. I'd say, come and ask me an honest question if you think my feelings really matter to you, and you'll probably receive an honest answer.

Warsaw8:

And why do almost all of your sentences end with a question mark?

Why not?

Warsaw8:

Are you asking us those stupid questions or giving your opinion?

Both.

And why are you a Nazi? Don't you know that's extremely bad for your health these days?

joepilsudski:

You are a fool.

Atleast I have my own point of vieuw, my own opinion and a decent answer when people ask me a question.

Fool.

Foreigner4:

would you want to ban those?

No ofcourse not, but then again there's a huge difference between accidents and accidentally pulling a trigger..

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