Polish army in afghanistan??

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Jan 4, 10, 06:21 #1

i have to do a project in school about the involvement of the polish army in afghan war. so i was reading about it all night(the bed in dorm sucks cant sleep anyway) and i don't see the sense in why poland should be involved in the war. I know quite a bit about afghanistan(originally from india). last i heard, India was sending engineers and medic there(makes more sense than sending the army there). So why is poland so keen on wasting its resources on a war which doesnt concern them? I was also reading that the polish government is planning to commit more troops to afghanistan(1200) or something...isnt it high time to "bring the polish boys home"??

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Jan 4, 10, 06:53 #2
Raj_ryder: So why is poland so keen on wasting its resources on a war which doesnt concern them? To please Washington...

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Jan 4, 10, 08:06 #3

Probably the greatest safeguard of Poland's national security in 1,000 years was its admission to NATO. The Polish authrotieis feel it is Poland's duty to support that NATO-led operation. Besides, lets not forget we are effectively in the midst of World War Three -- the struggle of the free world against global terrorism which can strike anywhere at any time. The age-old Polish motto "for your freedom and ours" may be cited as the spiritual underpinning of this involvment. How far would have Herr Hitler got if the USA had backed its British and French allies in 1939 without waiting for Pearl Harbour in Dec. 1941? And what did the French achieve when they didn't want to "mourir pour Danzige"?

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Jan 4, 10, 08:24 #4
Listen to someone who knows at 00:47 Remember, Nikto i nikagda.(No one ever concquered Afghanistan, ever.) It is only a cemetary for our soldiers.

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Edited by: jwojcie Jan 4, 10, 10:34 #5

The only true reason why Poland is in Afghanistan is because Poland is in NATO.
War in Afghanistan (contrary to Iraq war) is NATO war. Almost every full NATO member has some troops over there. It is not important in this regard what where all motives behind this war (which I believe, besides Al-Kaida, were oil and gas routes from central Asia to the Pacific ocean and envelopment of main antagonist of USA in the region = Iran). The fact is that NATO agreed with USA that Al-Kaida is enough to use article 5 of the NATO treaty. After that the only thing to do for NATO member was to engage in some level. The difference between this engagement reflect at least two things, relative postition in NATO and importance of NATO for choosen country. For example compare Poland and Germany:
Poland:
1. new member with weaker position in NATO structure
2. border NATO country with postcolonial syndrom (from the colony side), theoretically threaten by Russia, in general very pro NATO
Germany:
1. old member, with stronger position in NATO struture (NATO bases, high rank officials in NATO structure)
2. not any more border country and because of that feel secured from each side

To sum up every new member which feels unsecured alone treat NATO as an important part of security policy and because of that gives more to every NATO mission. West Europe in general don't do that because from their point of view even if there is any treat from the east they are behind buffer zone made by CEE countries. It is easy to be pacifist for them. So even if Gemany sent more troops they put obstacles for using those troops in real fight, and Poland didn't put such obstacles. I'm sure that as soon as Russia becomes fully democratic and more predictable country, Polish involment in NATO will diminish to minimally required level.

PS. Imporant exception from this pattern is UK, which has their own agenda with USA.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Jan 4, 10, 11:01 #6
Don't forget the Polish involvement of troops under the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 80's.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Jan 4, 10, 11:20 #7
Polonius3: in the midst of World War Three -- the struggle of the free world against global terrorism lol. Does anyone seriously believe this ??? Al quaeda only exists in the minds of Fox TV. This isnt a war on terror. Its a war of terror.

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Jan 4, 10, 12:26 #8

This isnt a war on terror.
Its a war of terror.[/quote]
i agree completely...al qaida is more now in pakistan than in afghanistan.

jwojcie:

Almost every full NATO member has some troops over there.

correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that all the other NATO countries got their troops out quite a while back and the poland seems to be the only country with solidiers stuck there.

Polonius3:

the struggle of the free world against global terrorism which can strike anywhere at any time.

Polonius3:

the struggle of the free world against global terrorism which can strike anywhere at any time.

and u really think that the presence of polish troops in afghanistan would prevent this?

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Edited by: jwojcie Jan 4, 10, 12:38 #9

ukpolska:

Don't forget the Polish involvement of troops under the former Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 80's.

As far as I know there wasn't any Warsaw Pact (including Poland) involvement in SU war in Afghanistan.

Raj_ryder:

correct me if im wrong, but i was under the impression that all the other NATO countries got their troops out quite a while back and the poland seems to be the only country with solidiers stuck there.

I think you have mistaken Iraq with Afghanistan. What you wrote is true regarding Iraq (Poland withdraw from there too one or two years ago. Why not to look directly at the source? :-) :
From official NATO site:
http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/epub/pdf/placemat.pdf
It suppose to be valid for 22 Oct. 2009.
You will find out that most if not all of NATO countries are in Afghanistan, even France...

PS. Yeap, I'm pretty sure that every NATO member has some presence in Afghanistan

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08 ♂	Jan 4, 10, 13:18 #10
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/tags.php?tag=poland

Raj_ryderThreads: 16 Posts: 178 Joined: Jan 15, 09 ♂	Jan 4, 10, 13:24 #11
jwojcie: PS. Yeap, I'm pretty sure that every NATO member has some presence in Afghanistan ok i didnt know that. But are other countries commiting more troops there like poland is??

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Jan 4, 10, 13:30 #12

Raj_ryder:

ok i didnt know that. But are other countries commiting more troops there like poland is??

Yes they are, for example Canada, Germany, France, Italy. It depends mostly on country size.
Just follow the link I gave you and you have it all there (but it says that numbers aren't exact). The problem is that some countries put strict restrictions on how and where and when their troops can be used.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂	Jan 4, 10, 17:34 #13
jwojcie: Yes they are, for example Canada, Germany, France, Italy. It depends mostly on country size. As far as I am aware Germany and France will wait until a meeting on Jan 28th in London before they blindly commit to sending any more troops like Poland have. Todays news - four yanks killed on Saturday, one Brit killed Sunday.....

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Jan 4, 10, 19:56 #14
Hello Raj_ryder, These thread will probably be of interest to you: Afghanistan and Poland Poll: Withrdraw from Afganistan and Iraq or not? (Someone renamed that thread and spelled Afghanistan incorrectly, wasn't me) it has now been corrected Poland Charges 7 in Afghan Killings

Raj_ryderThreads: 16 Posts: 178 Joined: Jan 15, 09 ♂	Jan 5, 10, 00:45 #15
thanks a lot man it clears somethings up... But i do hope that no one is living under the misconception that if the polish army is in afghanistan, poland is safe from terrorist attacks...its actually just the other way around i think.

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Edited by: jwojcie Jan 5, 10, 16:47 #16

szkotja2007:

As far as I am aware Germany and France will wait until a meeting on Jan 28th in London before they blindly commit to sending any more troops like Poland have.

As I stated earlier situation of Poland is different than Germany or France, at least in eyes of Polish decision-makers (it is another topic if their view is valid or not). So Polish gov. behaviour is not "blind", it is just motivated by different circumstances than German or French. Btw. Germany and France has already respectively 2x and 3/2x more forces in Afghanistan than Poland...

Raj_ryder:

But i do hope that no one is living under the misconception that if the polish army is in afghanistan, poland is safe from terrorist attacks...its actually just the other way around i think.

Terrorism is the last reason why Poland participates in this war.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 6, 10, 09:12 #17

Afghanistan is another case of 'goyim' being sent to fight for Jews...Why I say this?...Simple fact: The Rothschilds want to build a pipeline there, to send gas/oil from Central Asia through Afghan territory to Pakistani port for export to China and India...They want Pakistan dismembered too...Goy will build pipeline for them because Jews don't do this type of work.

If you want, I will document this, but a little later.

Obama is 'Yiddinski marionnetka'...Ultra Zionist Khazar Richard Holbrooke, Rothschild inlaw runs Afghan policy. Isarel is also in on the pipeline deal, through the 'Mehrav Group' from Tel Aviv.

Now, read this, from Ha'aretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1132797.html

AussieSheila	Jan 12, 10, 03:27 #18
joepilsudski: Afghanistan is another case of 'goyim' being sent to fight for Jews...Why I say this?... Because you are inferior human being and you are born to be oppressed by Jews and germans for life. Therefore you better commit suicide now since the world is run by Jews. tee heee

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Jan 12, 10, 03:51 #19

Raj_ryder:

i have to do a project in school about the involvement of the polish army in afghan war. so i was reading about it all night(the bed in dorm sucks cant sleep anyway) and i don't see the sense in why poland should be involved in the war...

Since you're from India you should understand. India has been in war with Pakistan several times and each time both sides asked for support from their allies. India from Soviet Union and Pakistan from the US and China. Being part of an aliance has its benefits but also obligations.

Poland has been brutally raped and pillaged by Germany and Russia so many times that it's only natural it seeks alliances. Germany is no longer a threat but the pseudo-democratic Russia still is. So helping out the US in an unpopular war (which I support very much) might help Poland in a future conflict with Russia. Based on the past history - that conflict will happen sooner rather than later.

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Jan 12, 10, 03:57 #20

skysoulmate:

Poland has been brutally raped and pillaged by Germany and Russia

Yes, it's one way to put it :/

skysoulmate:

Germany is no longer a threat

You reading this BB? :)

skysoulmate:

So helping out the US in an unpopular war (which I support very much) might help Poland in a future conflict with Russia. Based on the past history - that conflict will happen sooner rather than later.

100% with you mate on that!

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Jan 12, 10, 06:17 #21
skysoulmate: Based on the past history - that conflict will happen sooner rather than later Nonsense. Russia would never attack a NATO member state.

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Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 12, 10, 06:38 #22

TheOther:

Nonsense. Russia would never attack a NATO member state.

Well, that was my point - Poland became a NATO member for a reason...

However, Russia is turning all EU nations into Russian oil- and gas addicts - so trust me, they'll find other ways to terrorize other nations without an actual invasion. Centuries of tsarist- followed by communist-inspired repression of other nations doesn't end by simply declaring your country "democratic." Russkies will be back one way or the other.

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Jan 12, 10, 07:55 #23

AussieSheila:

joepilsudski:
Afghanistan is another case of 'goyim' being sent to fight for Jews...Why I say this?...

Because you are inferior human being and you are born to be oppressed by Jews and germans for life. Therefore you better commit suicide now since the world is run by Jews.

tee heee

I give you the bigger picture in my post.

Smaller picture, if Poland sends troops there, iy is only to 'toady up' ti NATO, police force for bankers.

Oppressed eternally by Jews and Germans?...Me?...Not quite....However, USA has a problem with the former and their political influence...As to Germany it is still an occupied country....Foreign troops still on it's soil...As a curiosity, has there ever been a formal document signed by Germany and 'the allies' ending occupation and WWII, or just Germany signing an unconditional surrender?

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: skysoulmate Jan 12, 10, 08:39 #24
joepilsudski: Oppressed eternally by Jews and Germans?...Me?...Not quite....However, USA has a problem with the former and their political influence... Wow... One thing the Russians succeeded with during their long and repetitious occupations of Poland was to create a "boogie-man" Jew paranoia in Poland... поздравления to you...

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Jan 12, 10, 09:11 #25

Tried to edit my post but apparently you can only do it once? Strange...

Here's the edit though.

joepilsudski:

Oppressed eternally by Jews and Germans?...Me?...Not quite....However, USA has a problem with the former and their political influence...

Wow...

I'm not a Jew but I love history and I do appreciate the history of the Jewish people. I travel for a living and love to interact with locals. It's amazing how often when discussing something in one of the eastern (central) European countries when people run out of valid arguments they end up blaming the Jews for whatever the argument was about (although antisemitism exists in many countries).

You're doing a disservice to the memory of the person whose name you are using as your screen name.

"...In 1926, Pilsudski worked a coup and installed the Sanacja camp into Parliament, lasting until the Marshal's death in 1935. At least politically, he was very open-minded towards the Jews. He was called the "Jewish grandpa" and supposedly said that he would be ashamed to be a Pole if pogroms ever occured in his country. At first, the situation looked promising as the Jews were protected under the new government from nationalist armed attack and the prime minister, Kazimierz Bartel, promised to protect the Jews from economic and cultural restrictions... While throughout his reign, Pilsudski denounced anti-Semitic rhetoric, harmful economic policies continued..."

http://library.thinkquest.org/C004509/discrim.htm

One thing the tsarist secret police succeeded with during their long and repetitious occupations of Poland was to create a "boogie-man" pogrom mentality, Jew paranoia in Poland (and Ukraine, Belorus, etc)...

The best way to control the masses is to give the masses someone to hate...

поздравления to you...

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Jan 12, 10, 09:37 #26
skysoulmate: It's amazing how often when discussing something in one of the eastern (central) European countries when people run out of valid arguments they end up blaming the Jews for whatever the argument was about joepilsudski is from the U.S.A. skysoulmate: Tried to edit my post but apparently you can only do it once? There is a time limit, it is about 15 minutes, after that it is locked.

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Jan 12, 10, 09:40 #27

you know, this thread wasnt really meant to sound anti semitic as it now does.

skysoulmate:

However, Russia is turning all EU nations into Russian oil- and gas addicts - so trust me, they'll find other ways to terrorize other nations without an actual invasion. Centuries of tsarist- followed by communist-inspired repression of other nations doesn't end by simply declaring your country "democratic." Russkies will be back one way or the other.

they are having massive problems with their economy. You really believe that they will come in with all guns blazing? and for what purpose exactly? history has told repeatedly, that it is not possible to annex your neighbour for very long, its more or less a waste of time. The only reason america america seems to be bombing the crap outta ME and not getting bombed right back is because of geography...its too far away.

TheOther:

Nonsense. Russia would never attack a NATO member state.

I agree completely...and to what end?? u attack one...you'll have the entire world on your ass. im pretty sure ruksies aint looking for any trouble. Yes their military capability remains very strong, but that doesnt necessarily mean that they'll actually use it.

So the conclusion is that Poland is sending 18 year old boys to afghanistan to keep washington happy?
You do realize the implications of this dont you??
Poland which till now is a completely terrorist attack free country will suddenly have buildings blowing up and people dieing, thereby leading to a weaker economy and hence leading to a panic. "this is how the cookie crumbles"...

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 12, 10, 11:26 #28

Mr Grunwald:

You reading this BB? :)

Yeah...I feel insulted! ;)

szkotja2007:

As far as I am aware Germany and France will wait until a meeting on Jan 28th in London before they blindly commit to sending any more troops like Poland have.

We most probably won't....at least defense minister Guttenberg said so on telly....
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,670710,00.html

...Guttenberg also described the addition of 2,500 more German soldiers in Afghanistan as "unrealistic."

skysoulmate:

So helping out the US in an unpopular war (which I support very much) might help Poland in a future conflict with Russia.

And again a stupid assumption by Poles/Poland (you know that: "You need me so I help you out so you are surely bound by your honour to help us out when we need you!"...just waiting to get disappointed again....:(

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Jan 12, 10, 12:00 #29

SeanBM:

joepilsudski is from the U.S.A.

I didn't realize that but based in his(her?) screen name I'm guessing a Polish heritage? Either way, antisemitism exists everywhere. I think people in Eastern Europe maybe more open about it? No scientific data to back it up, just some personal observations. Then again, maybe I just happened to run into all the existing antisemites in the region? ;)

Thanks for tip on the editing rules btw.

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Edited by: Sokrates Jan 12, 10, 12:02 #30

skysoulmate:

So helping out the US in an unpopular war (which I support very much) might help Poland in a future conflict with Russia. Based on the past history - that conflict will happen sooner rather than later.

US has already shown that its unwilling to help Poland in any regard, we bought the most modern jets in Europe, you'd think we could count on some discount as an "ally" but no, we had to pay through the ears, top market price and then they tried to cheat us during the offset.

When in Iraq we needed patrol car, you see Polish army was by design an offensive creature and we were simply not prepared for policing mission, Americans have tens of thousands of humvees, they could easily give us a couple of hundred and their army wouldnt even know they're gone, instead they sold them to us for a top price again, the cheapest most abundant vehicle in US army of which they have thousands in excess and they sell their ally used vehicles for the price of new ones, sorry but US is not going to help Poland in anything, ever.

We, the Poles have no illusions about where we and US stand and what we can count on from America (nothing) and the crushing majority of the nation is opposed to the idiotic decisions of our goverment, its gonna hiccup on them during elections.

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