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POLISH ARMY AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS


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rychlikThreads: 51
Posts: 446
Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 08:35    #1
I'll ask a few simple questions. Given the destruction of WWII and Soviet dominance of Poland, should Poland think of acquiring nuclear weapons? France has them. Britain has them. Given Poland's history wouldn't it make sense? I'm not sure if it's realistic in this day and age. But shouldn't Poland start protecting itself instead of relying on the USA?
Also, what's the state of the current Polish army? I also heard Poland will have one of the most powerful air forces in Europe within a decade. Is this true?
Discuss.
lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 13:18    #2
Of course, Poland should obtain nuclear weapons. Sooner or later Germany will wish to have it as well. Poland should take advantage of this.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,399
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 16:17    #3
rychlik:

Given Poland's history wouldn't it make sense? I'm not sure if it's realistic in this day and age. But shouldn't Poland start protecting itself instead of relying on the USA?



Poland has signed the non-proliferation treaty. It means Poland can`t develop nuclear arms. By doing so Poland would risk multiple sanctions. A good example is Iran.
Do you want Poland to be treated like Iran? :):):)

All in all, it is completely unrealistic. Like a landing of Martians in the heart of Warsaw to snatch the mermaid from the Market Square. Not worth any discussion.


Also, what's the state of the current Polish army? I also heard Poland will have one of the most powerful air forces in Europe within a decade. Is this true?


The Polish Army in its current state is enough to repel the attack of minor armed forces, such as Czech Republic`s or Lithuania`s. Traditionally, it is not able to repel the attack of the stronger German or Russian army.

But don`t worry about Polish military capabilities. Don`t forget we are in NATO.....

PS. Rychlik, have you checked the newest photo in your Warszawa post? What do you think about it? :):):)
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
Posts: 6,213
Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 16:26    #4
Definately yes. Intersting thing is that Polish commies in 70's wanted to start a military nuclear program but Soviets didn't let them do that.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,399
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 16:32    #5
Grzegorz_:

Definately yes. Intersting thing is that Polish commies in 70's wanted to start a military nuclear program but Soviets didn't let them do that.



No, you got it wrong. Polish engineers wanted to develop a car which would consume less fuel, but Russians halted it in fear of Poland buying less oil from the USSR.
rychlikThreads: 51
Posts: 446
Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 8, 08, 21:23    #6
Can Poland ever get out of the non- proliferation treaty? Do they have that right? Poland has never been a threat in Europe. Therefore these weapons would be merely for protection.
lesserThreads: 7
Posts: 2,014
Joined: Oct 19, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 12, 08, 15:39    #7
pawian:

A good example is Iran.
Do you want Poland to be treated like Iran? :):):)


You know very well that this comparison is false. There are several countries which developed nuclear technology without permission. Anyway, this is not what I have proposed.

pawian:

All in all, it is completely unrealistic.


It is absolutely realistic if competent politician would run this state.

pawian:


But don`t worry about Polish military capabilities. Don`t forget we are in NATO.....


Do you forget to read The North Atlantic Treaty?
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 13:26    #8
rychlik:

I'll ask a few simple questions. Given the destruction of WWII and Soviet dominance of Poland, should Poland think of acquiring nuclear weapons? France has them. Britain has them. Given Poland's history wouldn't it make sense? I'm not sure if it's realistic in this day and age. But shouldn't Poland start protecting itself instead of relying on the USA?
Also, what's the state of the current Polish army? I also heard Poland will have one of the most powerful air forces in Europe within a decade. Is this true?
Discuss.

The answers to question #1...Yes.......#2.....Yes......#3.......I don't really know, but I am sure some Forum members will be better informed.
OgorkiThreads: -
Posts: 131
Joined: Aug 4, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 15:53    #9
pawian:

The Polish Army in its current state is enough to repel the attack of minor armed forces, such as Czech Republic`s or Lithuania`s. Traditionally, it is not able to repel the attack of the stronger German or Russian army.

Poland can take on Germany with the help of her allies (just like throughout history)
Poland can take on Russia with the help of her allies (just like throughout history)
Poland - however cannot take on both at the same time (just like throughout history)

pawian:

No, you got it wrong. Polish engineers wanted to develop a car which would consume less fuel, but Russians halted it in fear of Poland buying less oil from the USSR.

A Polish farmer did develop a fuel efficient engine but it disappeared mysteriously as soon as it was announced.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 16:03    #10
You people like to play war games, do you? :)
OgorkiThreads: -
Posts: 131
Joined: Aug 4, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 16:21    #11
Bratwurst Boy:

You people like to play war games, do you? :)

It was a defensive not offensive statement.

...you paranoid about somethin?...
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 16:39    #12
War is not a game, and should only be used as the very last resort...Poland, however, would be wise to have a nuclear capability, since she sits on the shortest route between Western Europe and Russia.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Aug 13, 08, 17:28    #13
Kewl,

then France, GB and Poland would have nukes...Germany get's feeling abit encirlced, want's to have some too...don't you think it would be nuclear overkill in central Europe???
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 18:39    #14
It's an effective deterrent in the game that is politics
rychlikThreads: 51
Posts: 446
Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 18:47    #15
Nobody should be worried about Germany and Germany shouldn't worry about her neighbours. They're a civilized country now with the biggest economy in Europe. Russia is a totally different story all together. Russia's economic future rests on oil, oil and more oil. What's Russia gonna do when in a generation or so that oil runs out? Invade other countries? Also did you know the average male life expectancy in Russis is 59?? Hehehehehe
Poland all the way!
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 18:58    #16
The average male life expectancy in Russia is 59? So, that's in KGB-controlled gagging areas then?
slick77Threads: -
Posts: 182
Joined: Nov 9, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: slick77  Aug 13, 08, 19:25    #17
rychlik:

Given Poland's history wouldn't it make sense?


Finland's history in many aspects is similar to Polish. Finland however never wanted to acquire nuclear weapons and seem to be doing quite well without them. Having nuclear weapons wouldn't make our country safer or stronger.

It would make more sense to build nuclear power plants and have reliable energy source for years to come.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Aug 13, 08, 19:45    #18
Seanus:


It's an effective deterrent in the game that is politics


Only if you want to use them!
Polish_RangerThreads: 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Apr 23, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 10:17    #19
Poland is on it's way in becoming one of the military powers in Europe. By 2020, Poland will have it's own nuclear power plant which will lead to nuclear weapons.

Moreover, if the new Barack Administration goes ahead with the installation of the missile batteries, in return, Poland will have an upgraded Air Force that be in the top three in Europe.

We will see what happens,
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 5, 08, 11:04    #20
Polish_Ranger:

Poland will have an upgraded Air Force that be in the top three in Europe.

Your air force is based around a plane which was first rolled out 25 years ago!

Good luck betting on F16s against Eurofighter Typhoons flown by the British Royal Air Force, the German Luftwaffe, the Italian Air Force, the Spanish Air Force and the Austrian Air Force or the Saab Grippens of the the Swedish Air Force, the Czech Air Force and the Hungarian Air Force or even that Dassault Rafale the French fly!
VaFunkooloThreads: 7
Posts: 823
Joined: Mar 24, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 11:07    #21
And watch out for Andorran paper darts
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Filios1  Dec 5, 08, 11:18    #22
Harry:

Eurofighter Typhoons


Eurofighter Typhoons certainly aren't worthy of being produced on a mass scale. They are nothing but an F-18 sized fighter, with performance just a tad better than F-15 models. I hope you don't believe it to be in the same class as F-22's in stealth, either.
The one strength of the Eurofighter is a very modern avionic package and optimal agility.
Polish_RangerThreads: 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Apr 23, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 11:39    #23
Harry:

Your air force is based around a plane which was first rolled out 25 years ago!


If you would do your research, these F-16's are brand new block 52+ class C and D. Around 50 in current fleet and 50 more coming in a few years. In the near future, F-35's are coming into the Polish Air Force.

The F-16's were chosen over the European counterparts because of there packages (Block 52+). These fighters Block 52+ are better equiped that the mainframe European fighters.
VaFunkooloThreads: 7
Posts: 823
Joined: Mar 24, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 11:41    #24
Im glad Poland is getting a new airforce

It means next time they are attacked by the Russians, Germans or anyone else they wind up, they wont need the British to bail them out
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 11:41    #25
Polish_Ranger:

European counterparts


I believe the main challenge came from Saab Grippens, but the American bid won out.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Dec 5, 08, 11:53    #26
Polish_Ranger:


Poland is on it's way in becoming one of the military powers in Europe. By 2020, Poland will have it's own nuclear power plant which will lead to nuclear weapons.


The big mouth was never lacking with the Poles....
Polish_RangerThreads: 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Apr 23, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 12:06    #27
No harm intended. Just getting the stats correct.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 5, 08, 14:25    #28
Polish_Ranger:

If you would do your research, these F-16's are brand new block 52+ class C and D. Around 50 in current fleet and 50 more coming in a few years. In the near future, F-35's are coming into the Polish Air Force.

Remind me: in which month of 1973 was the F-16 first rolled out?

Poland actually has 48 F16 either in service or on order. Those 48 will be fully operational by 2012. No agreements at all have been signed for F35 and even if they were signed tomorrow, there wouldn't be any supply until 2016 at the very earliest.


Polish_Ranger:
The F-16's were chosen over the European counterparts because of there packages (Block 52+). These fighters Block 52+ are better equiped that the mainframe European fighters.

Oh yes, they are so well equipped that they don't even have an IT system! And the purchase includes no waranty clauses.

October 2, 2007 (by Lieven Dewitte) - Two F-16 jet fighters stationed at Krzesiny airport in western Poland, were forced to make an emergency landing, due to avionics malfunctions.

Both aircraft managed to land safely thanks to the skills of the experienced pilots and a good dose of luck.

Since the Polish air force began operating the F-16s in December last year, dozens of faults and defects have been detected in the fighter planes' equipment. All repair costs are to the account of the Polish military, as the government failed to include waranty clauses in the purchase agreement.

The defence ministry recently ordered spare parts for the F-16 for a total amount of 123 million USD, which should at least satisfy demands until 2010.

The list of problems with the Polish F-16 also includes a lack of a comprehensive IT system. Currently, all of the flight details, including fuel consumption, are recorded in an Excel spreadsheet.

"Without [the IT system], effective F-16 program management is impossible. We have two choices: either a team of air force experts will develop it by themselves or we'll organise a bid", Jacek Kotas, deputy minister of defence responsible for the implementation of the F-16 program told "Newsweek Polska".

http://www.f-16.net/news_article2540.html
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 5, 08, 17:14    #29
Poland should have them, they are bargaining chips and may redefine positions. To hell with disarming and scaling down, America and Russia have them so why not Poland?

Yeah, get some nukes and hold some sway.
Polish_RangerThreads: 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Apr 23, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 6, 08, 09:12    #30
Harry:

Remind me: in which month of 1973 was the F-16 first rolled out?


The F-16 program started in the 70's with the U.S. Air Force. The Polish F-16's were manufactured in Connectiicut and in Poland in 2006. My point is these are brand new F-16's advanced block 52+. These fighters are not as advanced as the F-22 but are more advanced that the European counterparts.

Harry:

Oh yes, they are so well equipped that they don't even have an IT system! And the purchase includes no waranty clauses.


Every Air Force has malfunctions with there fighters, the issue will be corrected as Poland purchased technology and parts for these fighters. In addition, Poland has a manufacturing plant on it's soil that will be cost effective to maintaining the F-16's


When delivered, Polish F-16s will be the most advanced in NATO. Features of the Block 52+ include an AN/APG-68(V) 9 radar fire control system and a Sniper Extended Range pod, which is an advanced targeting pod designed with an infrared pointer, laser, day TV, forward looking infrared, laser spot tracker and advanced algorithms. The pod delivers superior tracking performance and reliability. Additionally, the multi-role fighter developed for Poland is equipped with a helmet-mounted cueing system used for directing precision guided munitions and off-boresight missiles as well as for increasing pilot situational awareness

http://www.f-16.net/news_article1702.html

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