POLISH COPS TO BREATHALISE CANOE USERS....

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May 8, 11, 00:49 #1

I must confess to having a few swigs from a flask of vodka as we kyaked along a frozen river into the town of Drawko pomorskie , just for survival purposes of course....

It was november , and bloody freezing... a really daft idea...but fun...

I remember a cop grinning at us as we passed under one road bridge near Drawsko , he said we were all mad , he did not comment on the Vodka flask passed among us...

Now it seems you can get a big fine for such silliness....

http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul154838_dont-drink-and--kayak.htm l

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Edited by: Moderator May 8, 11, 00:53 #2
I think a 600 quid fine for being pissed in a canoe is a bit steep tho.... i mean its not like you are gonna kill anyone with a canoe...apart from yourself...

BartolomeThreads: 2 Posts: 1,345 Joined: Sep 14, 06 ♂	Edited by: Bartolome May 8, 11, 13:55 #3
wildrover: I think a 600 quid fine for being pissed in a canoe is a bit steep tho.... i mean its not like you are gonna kill anyone with a canoe...apart from yourself... It may seem harsh, but saving your drunk ar$e while sailing or kayaking, often during strong winds or/and high wave is a bit costly for emergency services.

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May 8, 11, 14:39 #4

Bartolome:

It may seem harsh, but saving your drunk ar$e while sailing or kayaking, often during strong winds or/and high wave is a bit costly for emergency services.

That's the point a lot of people overlook Bart. For every brave daring person who demands the right to risk their own lives if they want to, there is a team of people who have to risk theirs to save their necks and it comes at a cost

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May 8, 11, 14:44 #5

wildrover:

Now it seems you can get a big fine for such silliness....

According to the article, the bill hasn't been passed yet.

Bartolome:

It may seem harsh, but saving your drunk ar$e while sailing or kayaking, often during strong winds or/and high wave is a bit costly for emergency services.

Absolutely! The 2500 zl fine is small compered to how much it will cost the rescue services to retrieve some drunk from a kayak not to mention endangering their lives.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 8, 11, 15:06 #6
Vincent: Absolutely! The 2500 zl fine is small compered to how much it will cost the rescue services to retrieve some drunk from a kayak not to mention endangering their lives. Making the world safe for idiots by punishing everyone. Floating down the river enjoying a beer, there are few things better in life.

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,708 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	May 8, 11, 15:12 #7
convex: Making the world safe for idiots by punishing everyone. Anyone over the "limit" endangering others lives, is indeed an idiot. I assume there will be a breathalyser if in doubt?

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May 8, 11, 15:18 #8

convex:

Floating down the river enjoying a beer, there are few things better in life.

We're not talking about this level of "drunk" here at all. I do some canoeing and I know that alcohol and swift rivers with stretches of rapids and / or windy expanses of lake don't mix too well. And I enjoy my beer too. Also, the fines would start at 20 PLN for minor offences, so don't get your panties in a twist.

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: convex May 8, 11, 15:18 #9
Vincent: Anyone over the "limit" endangering others lives, is indeed an idiot. I assume there will be a breathalyser if in doubt? 0.2 is a single beer, and it's already illegal to recklessly endanger other people's lives.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	May 8, 11, 15:21 #10
I think they could do far more good by getting all the drunk drivers off the road....how much does the carnage on Polish roads cost each year.....?

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May 8, 11, 15:23 #11

Magdalena:

We're not talking about this level of "drunk" here at all. I do some canoeing and I know that alcohol and swift rivers with stretches of rapids and / or windy expanses of lake don't mix too well. And I enjoy my beer too. Also, the fines would start at 20 PLN for minor offences, so don't get your panties in a twist.

The law will fine you for having a single beer. .05 is two beers. Airline pilots have a limit of .04...are canoes really that complicated to operate?

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May 8, 11, 15:25 #12

convex:

Making the world safe for idiots by punishing everyone. Floating down the river enjoying a beer, there are few things better in life.

One never knows when such nice relaxing conditions turn to a real disaster: sudden squall (if you are on open water), big waves, unexpected rapids, or just swift current combined with a fallen tree across the river. I know, I experienced all of those. Then you do not need any drunk on board in such conditions. Drinking is fine later, after you made your camp.

And before this thread turns into one of those threads about stupid Poles and their bureaucracy I am eager to report that Canadian Police is very, very strict about such issues. Driving licence taken away, etc.

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May 8, 11, 15:28 #13

boletus:

One never knows when such nice relaxing conditions turn to a real disaster: sudden squall (if you are on open water), big waves, unexpected rapids, or just swift current combined with a fallen tree across the river. I know, I experienced all of those. Then you do not need any drunk on board in such conditions. Drinking is fine later, after you made your camp.

Two beers, 2500zl penalty. Public intoxication is already illegal in Poland. Why the need for new regulation when it already exists?

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	May 8, 11, 15:37 #14
convex: Why the need for new regulation when it already exists? Learn to read. It's an amendment of the existing bill, to include water sports.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	May 8, 11, 15:45 #15
Magdalena: Learn to read. It's an amendment of the existing bill, to include water sports. OOOH ERR MISSUS... you would think that having lots of beer would encourage such naughty practices.... You started this thread in the public forums. Just for once stay on topic, rather than trying to turn it into a smutty thread.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	May 8, 11, 15:47 #16
wildrover: you would think that having lots of beer would encourage such naughty practices.... what naughty practices? amending existing bills and suchlike?

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 8, 11, 15:54 #17
Magdalena: what naughty practices? Golden showers

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 8, 11, 15:54 #18
wildrover: Now it seems you can get a big fine for such silliness.... Quite right so! I am sick and tired of those crazy kayakers, who, under the influence, go totally blind and instead of rowing on the river, they encroach on roads, still rowing!! Can you imagine it??

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May 8, 11, 16:04 #19

convex:

Vincent:
Anyone over the "limit" endangering others lives, is indeed an idiot. I assume there will be a breathalyser if in doubt?

0.2 is a single beer, and it's already illegal to recklessly endanger other people's lives.

if there is no limit to how much alcohol can be consumed then there is no legal threat to those who like to have a lake trip after say a bottle of vodka - and even after just a couple of beers many people don't think reasonably any more (if they ever did)

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May 8, 11, 16:06 #20

pawian
Lost?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	May 8, 11, 16:14 #21
boletus: Lost? Yes! Blind!

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Edited by: convex May 8, 11, 16:27 #22

Magdalena:

Learn to read. It's an amendment of the existing bill, to include water sports.

I'm learning....but, public intoxication is already illegal. Again, why the need for new regulation?

gumishu:

if there is no limit to how much alcohol can be consumed then there is no legal threat to those who like to have a lake trip after say a bottle of vodka - and even after just a couple of beers many people don't think reasonably any more (if they ever did)

The limit is reached by having a beer. With that kind of BAC, you can still fly an aircraft with passengers on it, but not canoe...

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	May 8, 11, 16:32 #23
convex: but not canoe... The last I heard, canoes were not equipped with autopilots and other computerised whatnots that basically do all the hard work for you. Also, a canoe tends to get stuck under a fallen log with the crew trapped underwater and left fighting against a strong current in about 30 seconds. Airplane accidents don't happen that fast.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 8, 11, 16:34 #24
Magdalena: Airplane accidents don't happen that fast. But when they do......... Would you prefer to be flown to Okecie by a drunken pilot or passed in the river by a drunken canoist? This is rather a pointless piece of legislation - hard to enforce and completely unnecessary.

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May 8, 11, 16:37 #25

Magdalena:

The last I heard, canoes were not equipped with autopilots and other computerised whatnots that basically do all the hard work for you. Also, a canoe tends to get stuck under a fallen log with the crew trapped underwater and left fighting against a strong current in about 30 seconds. Airplane accidents don't happen that fast.

Which means that it won't be a rescue crew, but rather a hearse. Problem solved.

And uh, most GA aircraft (and indeed most of the big stuff) is flown by hand when it counts.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Edited by: Magdalena May 8, 11, 16:45 #26
Seanus: Tell me, are people supposed to press a sobriety button before going home? No, they are supposed to take a taxi. convex: And uh, most GA aircraft (and indeed most of the big stuff) is flown by hand when it counts. Many serious accidents actually take place when the pilot overrides what they think is a computer error (and turns out not to be one).

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May 8, 11, 16:58 #27

Seanus:

The potential to harm others was somehow raised through time?

1) Maybe someone finally realised that the potential was there.
2) It's not about harm to others here as much as about harm to yourself, the drunk canoeist, if you will. ;-)

I like to drink beer on the river. As long as I know the river and know what's coming (never easy even on a river you think you know BTW). But there is a lot of Sunday kayakers out there who drink themselves silly and think they can tell the river what to do. Never a good idea.

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Edited by: Seanus May 8, 11, 17:05 #28

Which post were you replying to, Magda? ;) ;)

If sb is silly enough to get blind drunk in a canoe then they need to accept the consequences of their actions. It's harm to others that I would be worried about. Breathalysing would then appear to be fair if sb gave off the impression of being drunk.

To the mods: Why don't you do your jobs properly and sweep off the rest of the irrelevant stuff above? Mine was far more relevant and that is abundantly clear. I've told you this umpteen times, I try and steer things back on track. I suggest that you target others more too.

I've never seen a drunken canoeist but checking them makes sense.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	May 8, 11, 17:17 #29
Seanus: I've never seen a drunken canoeist You missed out! ;-)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 8, 11, 17:22 #30
The police probably didn't ;) ;) They likely watched him safely make a fool of himself before stepping in to do their duty :) I think this may have stemmed from the recent decision of the police not to fine drivers as often due to them (the police) not getting a payrise. The govt has just broadened their (the police's) remit so that they can potentially fine more people.

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