Polish Diaspora - many of these 20 million actually speak Polish?

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Oct 17, 11, 20:36 #61

delphiandomine:

As for giving advice - by your estimation, those living in tinpot banana republics are somehow more qualified to speak than those who live in modern liberal democracies. It can only therefore be concluded that you have a love of strong governments, ruled from the centre.

Wow this is quite possibilly the stupidest argument I have ever read on this forum. Banana republics as so called because they are dictatorships propped up by foreign interests, such as the Dole fruit company, they are not true republics. Delphiandomine do you even think that one single person reading this forum would be stupid enough to believe that since banana "republics" have the word "republic" in their name that it follows that I am citing them as the proper model for Poland? You really do not have any self-respect do you?

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 17, 11, 20:36 #62

hythorn:

does that make you any less Scottish?

No, because from where I'm from (Aberdeen) - Gaelic was never really spoken. It was always Lallands Scots - which I do speak ;)

hythorn:

does that make them less Polish?

I dunno, from what everyone tells me, if you can't enjoy Mickiewicz et al in the native language, you can't "get" what it is to be Polish.

(dreadful though, being born in a country to people from that country, yet not being able to speak the lingo...)

Wow this is quite possibilly the stupidest argument I have ever read on this forum. Banana republics as so called because they are dictatorships propped up by foreign interests, such as the Dole fruit company, they are not true republics. Delphiandomine do you even think that one single person reading this forum would be stupid enough to believe that since banana "republics" have the word "republic" in their name that it follows that I am citing them as the proper model for Poland? You really do not have any self-respect do you?

You mention France and talk about "true Republics". You might just want to start with the little issue of the ending of the 4th/beginning of the 5th Republic there.

Oh, and by the way - we never elected someone who lost the popular vote. When you want to talk about republics - try looking at your own failings first, eh?

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Oct 17, 11, 20:39 #63
delphiandomine: I dunno, from what everyone tells me, if you can't enjoy Mickiewicz et al in the native language, you can't "get" what it is to be Polish. there are nutters everywhere :-) like those t!ts that say you can only enjoy nietzsche in the original German and look where that got us

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 17, 11, 20:41 #64
hythorn: like those t!ts that say you can only enjoy nietzsche in the original German and look where that got us Haha, well, I agree - but I'm not Polish ;) It probably is true to a certain extent - for instance, how often do Poles end up upsetting Brits by simply saying something in the wrong way, even though they'd have no hope of knowing the right way? Quite often, I think...

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Edited by: MediaWatch Oct 17, 11, 21:49 #65

hythorn:

utter rot

do you speak Gaelic?
erm no doubt the answer is likely to be a big fat no

does that make you any less Scottish?

I have met lots of Polish people born in Poland who moved abroad with their parents
and they returned to Poland without being able to communicate in Polish

does that make them less Polish?

Delphiadomine is a very angry Russian-Scot.

He got into hating Polish people, especially the Polish diaspora, after the Polish people (many in the Polish diaspora), questioned Russia's honesty in its reporting of the Smolensk crash.

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Oct 18, 11, 00:42 #66

Foreigner4:

When and where were these "English Only Laws?" For how long were they? How would they have been enforceable within the confines of the home? Would those laws have been in direct conflict with any elements of the American Constitution?

I don't know the history of the English-Only movement but I think it all started in the 1800's. Have you heard of how Native American children were taken from their homes, forced to attend school, and forced to speak English only? They were punished for speaking their languages. It was an order from the government. That's just one example.

Although laws or rules like that can't control what happens in the home, some parents did fail to teach Polish to their children so that they would prosper in America. In some cases, kids didn't want to speak Polish in order to fit in with the other kids. And then, of course, when they got older they regretted it but it was too late.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Oct 18, 11, 00:47 #67
shewolf: That's just one example. No, thats the ONLY example......

shewolfThreads: 5 Posts: 1,835 Joined: Dec 23, 06 ♀	Oct 19, 11, 21:13 #68
isthatu2: No, thats the ONLY example...... Then I guess it must have been my imagination when it became the rule in Los Angeles some years ago that children could only speak English in schools. Things may have changed since then.

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Oct 19, 11, 21:44 #69

shewolf:

That's just one example.

But it's not an example which in any way, shape or form supports blaming governments past for a lack of Polish fluency among polonia.
Were Polish children taken from their homes and forced to speak only English?

shewolf:

some parents did fail to teach Polish to their children

shewolf:

n some cases, kids didn't want to speak Polish in order to fit in with the other kids.

these are more than likely the main reasons.

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Edited by: legend Apr 18, 12, 00:11 #70

Merged: Polish Diaspora (Polonia Population estimates)

1. USA: 10,000,000 (Many in Chicago)
2. Germany: 3,000,000
3. Brazil: 2,500,000 (Mostly in Parana and Espirito Santo, Curitiba)
4. France: 1,000,000 (Especially in Lille and Paris)
5. Canada: 850,000 (300,000 Poles in Greater Toronto Area; 85,000 Polish speakers in Toronto/62,000 immigrants)
6. UK: 600,000-1,000,000
7. Argentina: 500,000
8. Belurus: 400,000 (300,000 in Grodno)
9. Russia: 300,000
10. Lithuania: 235,000
11. Australia: 180,000
12. Ukraine: 144,000
13. Netherlands: 135,000
14. Ireland: 123,000
15. Kazahkstan: 70,000
16. Latvia: 70,000
17. Czech: 52,000
18. Spain: 50,000
19. Italy: 50,000
20. Greece: 50,000
21. Chile: 45,000
22. Denmark: 40,000
23. Sweden: 40,000
24. Hungary: 10,000
25. Iceland: 10,000
26. Uruguay: 30,000 (Montevideo)
27. South Africa: 30,000
28. Norway: 20,000
+ Others

------

Total = 20,000,000+

Any links to the source of this information?

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,997 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Apr 18, 12, 08:54 #71
No mention of Kenya/East Africa? There was migration there after the War.

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Apr 18, 12, 13:14 #72
peterweg: No mention of Kenya/East Africa? There was migration there after the War. Ryszard Kapuscinski writes about having run into Poles in Africa - including Zanzibar.

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Edited by: maciciel Apr 18, 12, 23:43 #73

legend:

USA: 10,000,000 (Many in Chicago)

it's actually over 11 million, however many of them are polish nationals who've immigrated from say, the 2nd polish republic, eg. ukrainians, belarusians and jews who've held polish passports at the time.

and I'm not sure whether or not that takes into account the thousands of illegals from Poland living mostly in the north (especially in new jersy, chicago and new york)

so the exact number of ethnic Poles in the US is highly debated.

legend:

Brazil: 2,500,000

at least half of them or more are jewish (again, polish nationals).

What's interesting is that I remember reading about a year ago how there were somewhere around 1.5-1.8 million 'Poles' living in Israel, and that statistic suddenly vanished from most online sources now (including wikipedia)..

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Apr 21, 12, 08:45 #74

Any links to the source of this information?

Sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_diaspora
http://www.polishmarketplace.com/Toronto/Toronto-main.htm

There was others as well. Might post if I find them.

maciciel:

it's actually over 11 million

Ive heard claims of 10-20 million.
Do you have a source?

Additionally many Jews identify themselves as Jewish. I believe there is 6.5 million Jews in USA.
I think its safe to assume many of those are part of this figure.

The Brazilian information you posted makes sense.

It all comes down to what we define as ethnic, nationalist, etc. Numbers would vary because of various reasons like genetics, self identity, Poland's border changes, etc.
Maybe they mean somehow they have Polish "slavic" blood whether 100 or 25 or something else?

peterweg:

No mention of Kenya/East Africa? There was migration there after the War.

I saw no mention. Also, I included countries which had 10,000 or more. Maybe there is less than 10,000 in Kenya?

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Apr 28, 12, 10:29 #75

legend:

Sure.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_diasporahttp://www.poli shmarketplace.com/Toronto/Toronto-main.htmThere was others as well. Might post if I find them.maciciel: it's actually over 11 millionIve heard claims of 10-20 million.Do you have a source?Additionally many Jews identify themselves as Jewish. I believe there is 6.5 million Jews in USA.I think its safe to assume many of those are part of this figure.The Brazilian information you posted makes sense.It all comes down to what we define as ethnic, nationalist, etc. Numbers would vary because of various reasons like genetics, self identity, Poland's border changes, etc.Maybe they mean somehow they have Polish "slavic" blood whether 100 or 25 or something else?peterweg: No mention of Kenya/East Africa? There was migration there after the War.I saw no mention. Also, I included countries which had 10,000 or more. Maybe there is less than 10,000 in Kenya?

I think 20 million is a conservative estimate for the Polish diaspora.

If you include, people who are 1/4 or 1/8 Polish, it would be much higher then 20 million.

Also, many ethnic Poles imigrating to America from 1795-1917 when Poland was occupied by Austria, Germany and Russia, were required to identify themselves as "Austrians", "Germans" and "Russians" since these countries controlled Poland from 1795-1917. So there are a lot of "undercover ethnic Poles" in America that aren't identified as being of Polish ancestry.

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Apr 28, 12, 10:35 #76
MediaWatch: If you include, people who are 1/4 or 1/8 Polish, it would be much higher then 20 million. The question is whether or not people identify as being part of the Polish Diaspora, speak(at least some of) the language and retain cultural or community links - only then are they part of it.

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