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Polish F-16s heading for Afghanistan shortly


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VarsovianThreads: 91
Posts: 568
Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:18    #1
Poland has 48 F-16s, based near Poznan. They are training for operations in Afghanistan.
ArienThreads: 6
Posts: 1,604
Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Arien  Mar 30, 10, 13:25    #2
I feel much safer now, thanks.

:)
dnzThreads: 25
Posts: 804
Joined: Dec 2, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:25    #3
And your point is what exactly? British planes and the military have been there fighting Americas war for oil for years.

America should go this alone and stop getting everyone else involved.
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:27    #4
America should go this alone and stop getting everyone else involved.

No one forced the UK to send under equipped troops over to both Iraq and Afghanistan.
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,306
Joined: Apr 21, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:29    #5
UK to send under equipped troops

The British military has always been under equipped and is probably the best equipped it has ever been at the moment.
VarsovianThreads: 91
Posts: 568
Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:31    #6
Ha ha ha
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,306
Joined: Apr 21, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: time means  Mar 30, 10, 13:35    #7
Ha ha ha

Going on my own experience and from people whom i know who are still in.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: frd  Mar 30, 10, 13:36    #8
dnzAnd your point is what exactly? British planes and the military have been there fighting Americas war for oil for years.

He's just quoting tvn24 news. It might be interesting for Poles and those who are following Polish news hence the whole commotion connected to these F-16s earlier - it's a long story involving Poland buying it from US, lack of pilots, pilot training, lots of little sidestories connected to that, and now they are gonna do something more than just patrolling Polish borders. I'm really curious how is it gonna work out. The first real mission.

Besides these old american F-16's are one of the polish most modern units ; )
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:48    #9
Besides these old american F-16's are one of the polish most modern units ; )

Old? They're block 52+. Good planes for Polands mission.
RubasznyRumcajsThreads: 9
Posts: 283
Joined: Mar 29, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:51    #10
nice. at least polish pilots will gain some real-life experience.
VarsovianThreads: 91
Posts: 568
Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:56    #11
F-16 are decent machines.

F-18s were great ... when they could fly.

Horses for courses
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:58    #12
Old? They're block 52+. Good planes for Polands mission.

What's block 52? I just remember something about buying old used planes not the fresh brand new set from the factory... And I'm not complaining really, F16 is kind of a symbol for me..
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Mar 30, 10, 13:58    #13
Besides these old american F-16's are one of the polish most modern units ; )

They're also one of the worlds most modern airplanes.
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 14:08    #14
What's block 52? I just remember something about buying old used planes not the fresh brand new set from the factory... And I'm not complaining really, F16 is kind of a symbol for me..

The original idea was to lease used F16s and F18s. The Polish govt. decided to buy new F16s. Block 52+ is one of the newer variants.

The F16 performs everything the Polish Airforce needs, and does it with a relatively cheap and proven platform.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 14:14    #15
The original idea was to lease used F16s and F18s. The Polish govt. decided to buy new F16s. Block 52+ is one of the newer variants.

The F16 performs everything the Polish Airforce needs, and does it with a relatively cheap and proven platform.

Thanks it seems I had outdated info.. if it rapes Russian "Su's" it's good enough.
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 14:23    #16
Thanks it seems I had outdated info.. if it rapes Russian "Su's" it's good enough.

It won't. But that's not the point. The point is to have a multirole aircraft that can support NATO missions. Mainly ground attack. Poland doesn't have the money or the need to invest in air superiority fighters. If the Russians come, there will be bigger issues playing out.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Mar 30, 10, 14:33    #17
Thanks it seems I had outdated info.. if it rapes Russian "Su's" it's good enough.

It also rapes Grippen and Eurofighter.
It won't.

It will, given it has newer systems.
The point is to have a multirole aircraft that can support NATO missions.

Convex's opinions episode 939581, the point was to have a modern fighter aircraft who's primary role was air superiority.
ground attack.

Mainly air superiority.
Poland doesn't have the money or the need to invest in air superiority fighters.

Which is why it bought the most expensive F-16 models with air superiority modules?

If the Russians come, there will be bigger issues playing out.

Good point,one out of fifty is not bad.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 14:50    #18
Look, there have been all manner of aircraft in Afghanistan from McDonnell Apaches to drones. They still haven't secured key positions by bombing from strategic locations. If you want to pay some Poles for carrying out their training in order to put food on the table, I'm all for that but anyone can see through Operation Moshtarak.
convexThreads: 46
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Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		Edited by: convex  Mar 30, 10, 14:55    #19
It will, given it has newer systems.

Close, but, uh, no. You might want to check out the radar package that those upgraded su-22s have. If Poland wanted air superiority, they should have picked an air superiority fighter.

The Polish F16s were delivered with sniper pods, and the contract is based around providing JSOW and JDAM weapons, not the sidewinders and the amraams.

The training has been around ground support. Poland has patriots for air defence.

As far as NATO planes go, F16s are about the cheapest way to get into the game. Why didn't they go for F35s?

So what's the air superiority package you're talking about?
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 15:02    #20
So what's the air superiority package you're talking about?

good point!
Poland should have bought Swedish plane....
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 15:19    #21
Poland should have bought Swedish plane....

They were smart enough to buy a popular NATO plane.
richasisThreads: 5
Posts: 833
Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 16:07    #22
They were smart enough to buy a popular NATO plane.

Surely you jest.
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 16:17    #23
Surely you jest.

It's not a popular NATO plane? It's not cheaper to play out in the desert with a common aircraft?
szkotja2007Threads: 38
Posts: 2,544
Joined: Dec 29, 06 ♂ 		Edited by: szkotja2007  Mar 30, 10, 16:25    #24
So what's the air superiority package you're talking about?

Air superiority LOL - If I flew a friggin kite over Afghanistan I would have air superiority over the Taliban.

Hows it going at the front anyway ?
( Checks BBC News for today ) Three soldiers bodies repatriated.

and elsewhere in the news today......

Gazprom -
Date 30.03.2010 18:07
Currency USD
Quotations
Bid 5.6500
Ask 5.8030
Change, % last close +4.93%


More F16'S please and be quick about it.......we got a pipeline to build..............
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 16:38    #25
Air superiority LOL - If I flew a friggin kite over Afghanistan I would have air superiority over the Taliban.

Stinger'll take down a kite.

and elsewhere in the news today......

Nothing better than sweet Turkmen gas.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Mar 30, 10, 16:51    #26
Close, but, uh, no. You might want to check out the radar package that those upgraded su-22s have.

Convex just stop.

SU-22 is not in russian service thats one thing, the newest russian airforce radars are installed in SU-35s and they're almost at block 52+ level which means that the absolutely best Russia has to offer is still inferior to what we got in these babies.
The Polish F16s were delivered with sniper pods, and the contract is based around providing JSOW and JDAM weapons, not the sidewinders and the amraams.

Yes it was bought with AMRAAMs, C-5s to be specific.
The training has been around ground support. Poland has patriots for air defence.

No? The training was directed at air superiority, ground support and recon, Poland does not have a single patriot atm.
As far as NATO planes go, F16s are about the cheapest way to get into the game.

No they're not, both Mirage and Grippens were more expensive (i had to research Grippens) who were cheaper per market price but the package was smaller so we'd end up paying more in the end.

F-16s are currently superior to Eurofighter Typhoon and Grippen and about the same level as Mirage (they're cheaper in usage though).

Why didn't they go for F35s?

Priorities, we've got an entire army to modernise and not enough money to multitask, you could get only 1/3 of the jets and the quality is not so much over F-16s to justify the low number, biggest bang for your buck.

So what's the air superiority package you're talking about?

AMRAAM, AIM-9X and JSOW among others so no its not a poor mans fighter, its currently one of the best in the world.
agugu6210Threads: 3
Posts: 23
Joined: Mar 26, 10 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 17:10    #27
sickings..fighting the american war....
still dont have US visa waiver....why waste lives without gains..??? why cant lessons be learnt??
TheOtherThreads: 5
Posts: 1,584
Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 17:27    #28
If the Russians come, there will be bigger issues playing out.

If the Russians come, they will not use aircrafts. They just drop a few nukes and be done with it. Screw the F-16's. Doesn't Poland have more important things to do with its money than feeding the American military industrial complex?
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Mar 30, 10, 17:42    #29
SU-22 is not in russian service thats one thing, the newest russian airforce radars are installed in SU-35s and they're almost at block 52+ level which means that the absolutely best Russia has to offer is still inferior to what we got in these babies.

My mistake, someone mentioned flankers earlier. I meant 27s obviously.

So did you get AESA? No? Hmm. No SABR upgrade planned? Flankers are being upgraded to Irbis E... Hmm. Remember those Indian flankers that defeated the upgraded F15s a while back?


F-16s are currently superior to Eurofighter Typhoon and Grippen and about the same level as Mirage (they're cheaper in usage though).

Based on what? The Typhoon is an amazing aircraft, you can't compare it to either the Mirage, Gripen, or F16. It's a completely different class of aircraft, like the F35 and to a lesser extent, the Rafaele.

Priorities, we've got an entire army to modernise and not enough money to multitask, you could get only 1/3 of the jets and the quality is not so much over F-16s to justify the low number, biggest bang for your buck.

Most other NATO countries are are planning on replacing their fourth generation jets for a reason...

The F16 is a good multirole plane, but it's not at the top of the list when it comes to air superiority fighters.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Mar 30, 10, 19:10    #30
convex:
So did you get AESA? No? Hmm. No SABR upgrade planned? Flankers are being upgraded to Irbis E... Hmm. Remember those Indian flankers that defeated the upgraded F15s a while back?

No i dont remember "those indian flankers", given that our F-16s have a AN/APG-68(V)9, the most modern radar for F-16s, AESA or SABR do not provide any real improvement over our models, why would we buy something that provides us with the same operational parameters as compared to what we already have? Irbis-E is significantly inferior and Foxbats are not being upgraded with it so whats your point?

convex:
Based on what? The Typhoon is an amazing aircraft, you can't compare it to either the Mirage, Gripen, or F16.

And its an amazing aircraft because? Its a multipurpose fighter thats comparable with older constructions fitted with the newest electronics, weapons, its overblown price is not proof of quality but of a f*cked up development program.
convex:
It's a completely different class of aircraft, like the F35 and to a lesser extent, the Rafaele.

Actually they're all the same class of aircraft, multi-role fighter, except for Rafale which is omni-role.
convex:
The F16 is a good multirole plane, but it's not at the top of the list when it comes to air superiority fighters.

According to You? It uses the same electronics as top air superiority fighters, it shoots the same missiles, it has the same radar so what makes it worst?

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