Polish-German relations strengthen further as Komorowski visits Berlin

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 4, 10, 03:15 #1

In Berlin Komorowski Met Angela Merkel and President Christian Wulff.

http://wyborcza.pl/1,75248,8334820,Komorowski_zdobywa_Berlin.html

During the visit the presidents paid tribute to Stefan Grot-Rowecki who died at Sachsenhausen concentration camp.

He was betrayed by a underground Gestapo agent Blanka Kaczorowska.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blanka_Kaczorowska.jpg

Feel free to discuss, How close will Polish-German relations be in 10 years time?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 4, 10, 20:32 #2
Polish-German relations strengthen further so when would Germany agree to allow re-slavicization of all those germanized Western Slavs? as Komorowski visits Berlin o, Mr. Nobleman Komorowski in action say few words to your German friends for the Serbians, Mr. Nobleman

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 4, 10, 20:36 #3
It was just back patting APU in Germany. Kommie has nothing to say, really. I'm surprised that he didn't present Merkel with a letter from Tusk and then remain silent for the remainder. I wouldn't say that relations are necessarily being strengthened here. Kommie is there for the sausages and wine as much as anything else :)

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 4, 10, 21:44 #4

They agreed to re-open the "Weimar Triangle", closer cooperation between Poland, Germany and France. (The Kaczinsky's scratched it!)
That's a good thing in my opinion...most discussions will now cleared between us and at the top, not in some tabloids!

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul138919_reviving-weimar-tria ngle-a-priority--says-komorowski.html

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul138972_weimar-triangle-key- to-increased-eu-influence.html

That alone will already strengthen the relationships!

Crow:

say few words to your German friends for the Serbians, Mr. Nobleman

Wot??? Serbians are unable to speak for themselves??? Some warriors...;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 4, 10, 21:55 #5
The Serbians had their chance with their last delegation sent, BB. What will this Weimar Triangle bring, BB, that the EU dictates don't?

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 4, 10, 21:58 #6

Seanus:

EU dictates don't?

"EU dictates"

Playing the wronged victim here again??? Nobody is forcing the Scots to do anything they don't want, right?

Seanus:

What will this Weimar Triangle bring,

Most problems between people arise because they don't talk enough with each other, clearing up misunderstandings, sharing reasons why they do this or that or don't like the other, just plain getting to know each other...etc.
It's the same is between countries!
When countries stop talking with each other but only hurl abuse at each other then no productive policy is possible and everything detoriates..we all remember, don't we!

The Weimar Triangle will help to iron things out between us, talking things over, without needing to bring them to the big EU table. That means better relationships for all of us.

hague1cmaeron:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blanka_Kaczorowska.jpg

Whoa...what a beauty!

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Sep 4, 10, 22:02 #7
Crow is confusing Serbs with Sorbs, which is weird and confusing in itself :-)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 4, 10, 22:03 #8
Zed: Crow is confusing Serbs with Sorbs, which is weird and confusing in itself :-) For him EVERYBODY is Serb! :):):) Interesting, I didn't know that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Wehrmacht

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Sep 4, 10, 22:16 #9

You are talking about behind-the-scenes ironing out, BB. No disrespect to Kommie but he is hardly in a better position than many Poles to iron out the creases. Many older Poles really know what went on in their country and can offer ways forward just like Kommie can.

You shun the EU table, why? What is so micro that can't be macro? Don't historians, speaking to large audiences, clear up misunderstandings? 2 people getting to know each other, BB, super, but what about people who have lived through and endured history? Bad decisions impacted every bit as much on them as on Kommie, BB. True?

I'll ignore the Scots comment for obvious reasons.

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Edited by: warszawski Sep 4, 10, 22:30 #10

Seanus:

You are talking about behind-the-scenes ironing out, BB. No disrespect to Kommie but he is hardly in a better position than many Poles to iron out the creases. Many older Poles really know what went on in their country and can offer ways forward just like Kommie can.

Anyone here go to the V11 Jewish Festival in Warsaw this week. There was a showing of the film " A unfinished Film" by Yael Hersonski about the gestapo propaganda machine - Here is a link for a trailer to the film and info on the Festival,

http://thenews.pl/culture/artykul138527_a-film-unfinished-at-jewish-si ngers-festival-in-warsaw.html

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 4, 10, 22:34 #11

Seanus:

You are talking about behind-the-scenes ironing out, BB. No disrespect to Kommie but he is hardly in a better position than many Poles to iron out the creases. Many older Poles really know what went on in their country and can offer ways forward just like Kommie can.

Yes?

What do you think the "ironing out" is about Seanie? The war??? The commie times??? History lessons???

Quite the contrary...there are alot of today's problems to talk about and business/cultural projects to shove on...

Seanus:

You shun the EU table, why?

Who is talking about shunning? But why should be "the EU" involved when bilateral problems need to be solved?

Do you see now a conspiration behind every corner Seanie??? :)

Most neighbouring EU countries have these kinds of talks with each other...it was only the Kaczinsky's who were not really interested in their neighbors!

What is your alternative Seanie?

Seanus:

2 people getting to know each other, BB, super, but what about people who have lived through and endured history?

Well, I think they should know about how important the building of good relationships is...and talking is the best way to achieve lasting good cooperation and peace!

Seanus:

I'll ignore the Scots comment for obvious reasons.

Why? That was a bonmot of wit and intelligence!!! *pouts*

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Sep 4, 10, 22:34 #12

Bratwurst Boy:

They agreed to re-open the "Weimar Triangle", closer cooperation between Poland, Germany and France. (The Kaczinsky's scratched it!)
That's a good thing in my opinion...most discussions will now cleared between us and at the top, not in some tabloids!

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul138919_reviving-weimar-tria ngle-a-priority--says-komorowski.html

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul138972_weimar-triangle-key- to-increased-eu-influence.html

That alone will already strengthen the relationships!

I think this is good news.

If the governments of France, Germany and Poland are sincere in bringing these nations together then I think that is a win-win-win for all 3 nations and for Europe. If these central European nations can stick together and lead Europe, protect it from unchecked immigration and other anti-European forces, then that is good.

Poland and France historically were friends and if they combine with today's Germany to do good for Europe, then all the better! :)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 4, 10, 23:19 #13
Zed did your nick name Zed is/was inspired by Zed character from Pulp Fiction movie? MediaWatch: If the governments of France, Germany and Poland are sincere in bringing these nations together and i think that those governments doing their best to subjugate Polish people as much as possible to the EU (read- leading EU powers)

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 5, 10, 04:14 #14

hague1cmaeron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blanka_Kaczorowska.jpg

know the link is active

Bratwurst Boy:

Interesting, I didn't know that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Wehrmacht

Quite a few Poles fought in WW1 on both sides, and as the war progressed all the sides started running out of cannon fodder. So they gradually gave in to greater concessions to the Poles to recruit them into their armies by promising Polish independence and the like.

it is estimated that around 400 000 Poles died fighting in the conflict. At times often fighting each other due to them being on the German of Russian side of the partition.

some notable Germans of Polish origin fought for Poland in WWII, including:

General Franciszek Kleeberg-arguably the best polish general in the conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_Kleeberg

And General Juliusz Rómme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_R%C3%B3mmel

apparently a relation of the desert fox

Józef Unrug
fought for Germany in WW1 and later for Poland in WWII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Unrug

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Sep 5, 10, 04:36 #15
hague1cmaeron: apparently a relation of the desert fox Really! Now wouldn't that be cool! :)

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Sep 5, 10, 05:15 #16

Crow:

and i think that those governments doing their best to subjugate Polish people as much as possible to the EU (read- leading EU powers)

So what do you suggest Poland do in the European Union? How should Poland deal with Germany and France?

Where do you draw the line between leading EU nations working with Poland and "subjugating" Poland?

I think these EU nations know that Poland, because of its history, is naturally suspicious of other countries so they have to be really sneaky if they are going to subjugate Poland in some way.

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 5, 10, 05:55 #17

Indeed

His full title is: baron Julius Karl Wilhelm Josef von Rommel.

According to some posts he was related to Erwin Rommel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_R%C3%B3mmel

according to this entry he was:)

We shouldn't forget one of Poland's most notable generals, who formed the Polish army in the east Władysław Anders-Son of German Balts. (Anders was born on 11 August 1892 to his Baltic-German father Albert Anders and his mother Elizabeth, born Tauchert) He later became Poland's president in exile i believe or PM-one or the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Anders

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron Sep 5, 10, 06:28 #18
Władysław Langner Major-General (1896 – 1972) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Langner Another one Mieczyslaw Norwid-Neugebauer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mieczyslaw_Norwid-Neugebauer would be another one Bronisław Prugar-Ketling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronis%C5%82aw_Prugar-Ketling and another

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 7, 10, 00:59 #19

The Economist about Komorowskis foreign policy:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches/2010/09/polish_foreig n_policy

Goodbye high drama

....
The big question will be the practical payoff. If Poland's new approach brings financial and political dividends in the EU, and real cooperation from Russia, Mr Tusk (and Mr Komorowski) will be vindicated. The verdict for now is so far, so good.

*nods*

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Sep 7, 10, 02:08 #20

Bratwurst Boy:

The Economist about Komorowskis foreign policy:

Interesting story BB.

Who would have thought that Polish leaders would be closer to the German leadership then the French leadership? LOL I thought France and Germany were relatively close.

I didn't know the French leader Sarkozy and German Chancellor Merkel didn't get along well.

Its interesting that the Polish Prime Minister Mr. Tusk knows German. I'll bet you of Germany's two neighbors, more Poles know German then the French do. Kind of interesting eh?

Quite a few of my older Polish family members spoke fluent German.

As the article implies, the German speaking Mr. Tusk has a good business relationship with Mrs. Merkel.

Like the article says, so far so good with recent/current relations between Germany and Poland.

Lets keep our fingers crossed :)

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Sep 7, 10, 02:08 #21
I like Komorowski, so far :-)

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 7, 10, 02:40 #22

MediaWatch:

Who would have thought that Polish leaders would be closer to the German leadership then the French leadership? LOL I thought France and Germany were relatively close.

Nun ja...the relationship between France and Germany is now quite independent from the sympathies of our leaders...we have become to intertwined for that.
So even a as for example Mitterand liked Kohl as much Sarkozy dislikes Merkel (and vice versa) you don't hear much about it and it doesn't change the bilateral connections, common projects, treaties or any other workings.

With Germany and Poland on the other hand personal sympathies (or the lack of) on the highest levels still matter as we have seen in the past.
It's still important that in Berlin and Warsaw the pragmatic cool heads prevail! It will help us greatly to get things going between us!

(If Adenauer hadn't had such a good connection to De Gaulle things would had started off much slower and with much more difficulties too...)

MediaWatch:

Lets keep our fingers crossed :)

*crosses fingers* :)

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Sep 7, 10, 02:56 #23
Right.... BB but what it will make Germans think of Poles better a bit....? I think this is a key to our good neighborhoodly living. So far you have been stereotyping us hugely... :-(

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 7, 10, 03:01 #24

Zed:

Right.... BB but what it will make Germans think of Poles better a bit....? I think this is a key to our good neighborhoodly living. So far you have been stereotyping us hugely... :-(

And the reason for it is pure ignorance on our side (the West Germans are far worse in this regard than we East Germans btw), I have to admit.

There is much do be done to open the eyes that there is somebody between us and Russia! :(

But then...the Football European Championship is coming in two years and then the Germans WILL take a good look! :)

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Sep 7, 10, 03:15 #25

Bratwurst Boy:

Nun ja...the relationship between France and Germany is now quite independent from the sympathies of our leaders...we have become to intertwined for that.
So even a as for example Mitterand liked Kohl as much Sarkozy dislikes Merkel (and vice versa) you don't hear much about it and it doesn't change the bilateral connections, common projects, treaties or any other workings.

With Germany and Poland on the other hand personal sympathies (or the lack of) on the highest levels still matter as we have seen in the past.
It's still important that in Berlin and Warsaw the pragmatic cool heads prevail! It will help us greatly to get things going between us!

(If Adenauer hadn't had such a good connection to De Gaulle things would had started off much slower and with much more difficulties too...)

Yup, so for better or worse, long term good or bad relations between nations start with initial/short term good or bad relations between leaders. But hey if enough of us Pro-German and Pro-Polish people keep our fingers crossed for the good now.......maybe we have some hope here? :D

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 7, 10, 03:30 #26

MediaWatch:

But hey if enough of us Pro-German and Pro-Polish people keep our fingers crossed for the good now.......maybe we have some hope here? :D

The Poles in the Mannschaft are already heroes for the Germans! :):):)

PS: But I really admire Adenauer and De Gaulle for that - they had been enemies just a few years back!
(Na ja...Adenauer had already been an old, resigned man during the Nazi era but still...)
Don't underestimate the general french-german dislike so short after the war. Really astounding what visions can achieve!

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂	Sep 7, 10, 12:31 #27
Well, typical boring bilateral relations, finally... But results will be judged based on practical things, ie. if Germans will bury this damn pipe deep enough or not ;-) Birds are singing that they don't want to do this...

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Sep 7, 10, 12:48 #28

What makes you think Kommie has amassed the necessary exp to tackle them at the highest level, BB? Kommie is not immune from ironing out the creases, BB. He has to do his country proud, you know? ;)

What bilateral problems? I've never embraced conspiracy theories, only conspiracy facts (thanks Mike Ruppert).

Peace, eh? We all know what happened when Neville Chamberlain declared 'peace in our times' ;) ;)

Nah, Kommie is onboard with the club so things can move forward. However, I hope he doesn't block some interested parties in fulfilling their objectives.

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Sep 7, 10, 14:26 #29

hague1cmaeron:

Feel free to discuss, How close will Polish-German relations be in 10 years time?

The relationship will always remain strained because deep in our heart we will never be able to forgive. Clearly we should not hate the "today germans"... the most evil's of yesterday are no longer alive. But anyway, it is so cruel that it is impossible to forget nor forgive.

I also like Komorowski...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 7, 10, 14:41 #30
This is where Christian principles get put to the sword. It's all very well saying that forgiveness is divine but can it forgive sth that massive? Besides, if sb knows that they will be forgiven, they will repeat the harm in all likelihood. Kommie was there for the schnapps :P

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