What the Polish government do to bring back home Polish immigrants?

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Feb 17, 10, 20:33 #31

Its true my Polish is weak, especially in writing and that's only through my fault but not one of you could refute my points. Torq, its quite telling when a "plastic" Pole has to teach about patriotism and whats actually going on in Poland. To quote Roman Dmowski "To be a Pole does not mean just to speak Polish or to feel close to other Poles, but to value the Polish nation above all else ... [A Pole] must accept everything Polish, both good and bad, and must accept every period of the nation's history, both strong and weak." and I value the Polish state above all else, unfortunately millions of other Poles don't. Millions of Poles died so there could be a Poland but you shouldn't be reminding me, you should be reminding the millions of Poles that are leaving every single year and settling down in different nations and enhancing them. Those Poles died so that there could be a free Poland and they went through 200 years of oppression, they did not intend for the free people of Poland to then abandon their great nation. So sure nitpick at my Polish but unlike alot of Poles I still have a shred of dignity and if loving the state makes me a fool then I am the biggest fool in the world.

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Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Feb 17, 10, 20:38 #32

Seanus:

Back to the thread, what is the Polish government doing? Surely it must be of some concern when 1/38 of your population goes to one group of countries alone. Alignment is key and a sensible government policy would be to, as best possible, to transfer the skills used abroad into Polish industry and practices. What is Tusk doing or what has he done in this regard?

They vast majority of Poles that emigrate to other European countries come back to PL sooner or later.
So actually I don't think the government has to do so much. But Polish companies have to figure out a way to raise the salaries.

Generally:
The people who went to America did it to start a new life.
The people who went to UK, Scandinavia etc. did it temporarily to make money.

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Edited by: Seanus Feb 17, 10, 20:42 #33

A free Poland means freedom to make decisions and many Poles choose/chose to get experience abroad, starting a new trend which many under communism couldn't enjoy. Millions of Poles are leaving? How many million? 6 or 7? You can't tell me that 1/6 of their diaspora live abroad. Since when has working abroad been a bad thing?

The only meaningful way to raise salaries in the public sector is to make real cutbacks by increasing efficiency and minimising waste.

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Edited by: beelzebub Feb 17, 10, 20:42 #34

Orzel expat Poles can't teach the locals anything about what is really going on because they are not living it. I am pretty sure a full time Pole has a much better understanding about life there than you do.

I love these threads about someone being so pumped to go back to Poland because life in the US or Canada or whatever sucks. You never hear from them again. You know why? Because if they do go they quickly realize it's not the paradise they imagined. Bluster and drinking songs can only take you so far before the reality of a lower first world/second world lifestyle sets in and you realize how good you had it before.

And Seanus...there are over a million documented Poles in Chicago alone. Double (or more) that to account for all the illegals and that's 2 million in just ONE US city. You probably have millions more in Candada and other US Polish hubs like New York. I don't see it as a stretch to reach your numbers.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Feb 17, 10, 20:49 #35
Torq: You sound to me like an American Polonus (a bit of a plastic Pole, no offense). Let's just hope that the utter cock doesn't come and live here.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 20:54 #36
Yes but I said 'are leaving'. If the visa requirement was waivered then maybe but it hasn't been so the procedure is that bit harder. You can't pull stats like 2 million when you haven't counted the illegal ones. Those Poles were not part of the recent 38 million statistic.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 20:55 #37
mirabela: What the Polish government do to bring back home Polish immigrants? Do you understand the difference between "immigrant" and "emigrant"? A native Pole can come back to Poland, and he or she will never be an immigrant there.

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: TheOther Feb 17, 10, 21:00 #38
I would rather ask what will happen to the Polish job market once all those Polish expats decide to go home. There's a good chance that the unemployment rate will sky-rocket.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 21:16 #39
Well, at least the figures will be more accurate ;0 ;)

TheOtherThreads: 5 Posts: 1,584 Joined: Jul 13, 09 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 21:21 #40
Seanus: Well, at least the figures will be more accurate ... and it will finally stop those threads that brag about how well Poland did during the recent recession ... ;)

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Edited by: Torq Feb 17, 10, 21:31 #41

Orzelbialy:

you should be reminding the millions of Poles that are leaving every single year and settling down in different nations and enhancing them

No, I should not be reminding them anything. They remember well enough who they
are and leaving is a very difficult decision for most of them.

I will give you just one example - my friend got his master's degree in Geography
6 years ago. For his master's thesis work about Polish railway system in Pomerania
he got a government distinction awarded by the Minister of Transport. The only
job that he could find at the time was in a hotel's reception for about 600PLN
(there were no administrative or teaching jobs available in our region then).

So, he went to Ireland. Works as a waiter there. A shame? A humiliation?
Maybe - but he bought himself a brand new appartment in our home town
(already repaid the credit taken for it) and managed to save enough to
come back to Poland this year. If he stayed, he would never be able to
buy it, or in best case scenario if he got a steady job he would be stuck
with mortgage for 20 years or so.

Can you blame him for leaving? Do you even feel in a postition to criticise him?
If you answered 'yes' to those questions then we have nothing else to talk about.

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Feb 17, 10, 21:35 #42

Orzelbialy:

Its true my Polish is weak, especially in writing and that's only through my fault but not one of you could refute my points. Torq, its quite telling when a "plastic" Pole has to teach about patriotism and whats actually going on in Poland.

Hardly, you evidently dont live in a country where unemployment levels are high and government assistance is next to nothing...PRIDE DOESNT FEED CHILDREN OR PAY THE BILLS..One can feel proud at the end of a week after having worked hard and earnt money, regardless of what country one lives in and regardless of what job one has had to do to earn that money...If you consider starving yourself and your family a proud thing to do then...you are fcuking stupid!

As to what are Poland doing, from what my mate say, not a lot..he went home, was offered a pittence with the knowledge he could earn a damn sight more in the UK, so after several months with no job in Poland he came back...I dont see it changing any time soon.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Feb 17, 10, 21:49 #43
Amathyst: PRIDE DOESNT FEED CHILDREN OR PAY THE BILLS..One can feel proud at the end of a week after having worked hard and earnt money, regardless of what country one lives in and regardless of what job one has had to do to earn that money Well said!

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Feb 17, 10, 21:51 #44

The simple fact remains is that I want what's best for Poland and Polish people as I sure most of us do. There's nothing wrong with working abroad but I don't see how it will help Poland especially if many of of thousands people of the diaspora decide to settle in their country. Many of them are highly educated and Poland definatly can't afford to lose such people aside from the fact that these educated people usually do jobs much beneath them.

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Feb 17, 10, 21:54 #45

Orzelbialy:

The simple fact remains is that I want what's best for Poland and Polish people as I sure most of us do. There's nothing wrong with working abroad but I don't see how it will help Poland

It doesn't help Poland that much, but it sure does help the Poles that are working overseas. You should come over and work for 1/5 of what you'd make over the border and see if that greed of making more money pulls you over the border.

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Feb 17, 10, 21:56 #46

How can't you see the value of working abroad, Eagle? Do you really think my smart friend took a job "beneath" her when she went to do voluntary work in Namibia? Many Poles actually get good money for what they do abroad and they can practically use their English and learn a new culture. When you get a taste for travelling, you often don't look back.

Anyway, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

ExiledThreads: 5 Posts: 729 Joined: Jan 17, 10 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 21:56 #47
Polish government can give each immigrant who gets back 3000 euro for every month of his residence in Poland and many Poles will get back.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 17, 10, 22:11 #48
What an absurd idea, Exiled. The Poles know about kombinowanie and they'd just hop on a plane, then return for their huge payout. Sorry but financial rewards should not be dished out in such fashion. Tusk just makes noises, he really couldn't care less about those abroad.

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Feb 17, 10, 23:06 #49

Seanus, I realize there is a lot of value in working abroad especially financially but that's for someone personally.But I am thinking of the community, the nation state as a whole and if those Poles decide not to come back that's a loss for the entire community, and no if your friend decides to help those in Namibia for a few weeks,months or even years that's a noble cause but I would hope that he/she knows that their home is in Poland. I am speaking about the people with university degrees in chemistry and physics and biology who go to the west and work as bell boys or maids. When amathyst says pride doesn't feed the children hes totally right but there is always a choice and those people decided that rather than making their own nation a better place, they fled.

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Feb 17, 10, 23:54 #50

Seanus:

When you get a taste for travelling, you often don't look back.

Very true. Since it is possible to run a household on one good salary in the UK, once the immigrants who think they're here for the short-term get decent positions worthy of their education, there will be no going back - plain and simple. Life is easier elsewhere - for now.

Seanus:

Anyway, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I always think a hand in the bush is worth more than either of the other two options. ;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 18, 10, 12:10 #51
Very true! LOL at the second point. Without the bush is better :)

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Edited by: Myszolow Feb 18, 10, 23:33 #52

Seanus:

Very true! LOL at the second point. Without the bush is better :)

Well you have to get a feel for the situation before you can propose such major cutbacks. ;)
Anyway, without the bush, the joke wouldn't work.

I still think a large number of the people who came to UK to "work for a few years and then go back to Poland and retire/start a business/build a house" will stay for good. If you make it, life is a lot easier in the UK. It's also easier to make it.

Got a friend who is a nurse who "can't afford" to move back to Poland. She got used to a different level of lifestyle. Although her long-term "pension fund" is an apartment in Polska.

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Feb 18, 10, 23:55 #53

Show them that the UK employers are exploiting most of the Polish who work in England. I know a lot of university educated Polish people working in UK as waitresses and in coffee shops.

Poland has a chance to develop and not turn into a **** pit like the UK, I think Poles should stay in their own country and help the economy improve.

I spend most of my earnings in Poland now, I prefer Poland's way of life to the UK. Its NOT because Poland is cheaper to live, its the People in Poland are not ruled by money.

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Edited by: hague1cameron Feb 19, 10, 01:49 #54

Kris:

Most of the Polish people I know in Dublin are highly intelligent and very well qualified. Maybe if people actually steered for change, rather than voting in the same old typical cronies Poland would have more to offer its people. Namely, quality of life, good economy, and lower rental/accommodation costs.

Well Kris you clearly don't know much about Polish politics, on paper they probably have the most competent government in Europe.

[Maybe if people actually steered for change, rather than voting in the same old typical cronies Poland would have more to offer its people. Namely, quality of life, good economy, and lower rental/accommodation costs.]

claptrap, if you really haven't got a clue what you are talking about it's best to keep quiet.

[2. That candidate countries have a working market economy, capable of competing effectively on EU markets.]
Under that criteria they are way ahead of Ireland, they have a more stable economy which isn't going through a crisis right now and currently has the highest growth rate in Europe. I think it should be Ireland that you should be worried about so that it doesn't get kicked out of the Euro Zone.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Feb 19, 10, 13:56 #55
Many people in Poland are ruled by money, steve. It's fine saying that they should improve their economy but many don't know how. Many university educated people in the UK don't have anything, nevermind employment in coffee shops. Some of the work is drying up in the UK. Many Poles are said to be returning disillusioned but you have to make your own luck these days.

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Feb 19, 10, 17:33 #56

Seanus:

Many people in Poland are ruled by money, steve

most of the Poles I have met and are my friends are not ruled by it. My ex gf was thats why she is my ex.

Krakow seemed to me a lot like it was a money grabbing haven but all the other cities I have visited are not.

Parking machines give change or give you, say 1 hour 15 mins, in Poland.

In UK they don't and you will only get the hour even if you pay the equivalent of 1.5 hours.

This is one example of why i say people in uk are ruled by money.

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Feb 19, 10, 20:10 #57

Steveramsfan:

This is one example of why i say people in uk are ruled by money.

I would disagree with you, but seeing as I live in the UK I can't afford it. ;)

I think people everywhere are increasingly ruled by money, and it sucks. But Poles talk about money all the time. They go to extreme lengths to save money. Maybe not all of them, but most of the ones I've met are pretty bloomin' oszczętny.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Apr 22, 12, 23:00 #58
mirabela: What the Polish government do to bring back home Polish immigrants? Nothing. They are coming back on their own. Half have already returned. http://www.portalsamorzadowy.pl/praca/emigranci-wracaja-do-polski,2975 4.html

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