Polish government takes Russia to European court over Katyn

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

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Oct 14, 10, 15:39 #1

Russia has violated the European Convention on Human Rights by refusing the relatives of the Katyn massacre victims access to investigation files, reads a memorandum by the Polish Foreign Ministry addressed to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.

Relatives of the Katyn massacre victims demand that officers murdered by the NKVD in Katyn in the spring of 1940 are recognised as victims of political reprisals and officially rehabilitated. They also want Russia to share with Poland all files into the Katyn investigation discontinued in 2004 and reveal the ruling, which was classified.

Full article here:

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul141503_polish-government-ta kes-russia-to-european-court-over-katyn.html

Is the Tusk crew trying to derail the brand-spanking new train of mutual adoration? What are they thinking, and what will these fanatics do next? Damand the black boxes from the Smolensk air crash?

Hypnotizing PF readers: We have great relations with Russia, rinse and repeat...

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Edited by: Torq Oct 14, 10, 15:48 #2

1jola:

Hypnotizing PF readers

один, два, три ... Tusk is acting in best interest of Poland ... четыре, пять, шесть...
the investigation of Smolensk air crash is conducted to the highest standards... семь,
восемь, девять... Bronisław Komorowski is an independent politician and a Polish patriot...
десять, одиннадцать, дванадцать...

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Oct 14, 10, 16:02 #3
lol. Just this week, I read in Gówno Prawda that a reputable Russian historian said the 116 classified files have a good chance of seeing the light of day before Medvediev's visit in December, so this move is puzzling. Can we blame this on Kaczynski or the Church somehow?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Oct 14, 10, 16:10 #4
1jola: Damand the black boxes from the Smolensk air crash? No, daddy says you can't have them yet. Sit back and take it, rinse and repeat...

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Apr 16, 12, 13:39 #5

15 relatives of victims of the NKVD in 1940 accused Russia of a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights - art. 2, art. 3 and art. 38.

The Court ruled that Russia has breached article 3 European Convention on Human Rights during the investigation into the Katyn massacre, allowing the "inhuman and degrading treatment" of ten relatives of the victims of the Katyn massacre. Russia classified documents from the investigation, failed to indicate the burial place of the murdered officers, and denied to acknowledge the Katyn massacre as a historical fact.

The Court held that it could not assess whether Russia had breached article 2 European Convention on Human Rights, which concerns the right to life and is ordering the initiation of a full investigation. The judges explained that they can not tell, because Russia did not cooperate with the Court and did not sent the required documents.

The Court held further that the mass massacre of Polish prisoners is a war crime. This means that the crime is not subject to limitation, and its perpetrators can be prosecuted.

The Court also found that Russia failed to cooperate with the Tribunal and by that breached the art. 38th Convention. Russian government refused to give a copy of the decision to discontinue the investigation of the Katyn massacre. Most families allegations concerned the investigation, which was ran in 1990-2004 by the Russian Main Military Prosecutor's Office.
In refusing to give the documents the Russian government relied that these documents are classified, even though international law forbids to justify refusal to cooperate with the Tribunal by reference to national law. The Russians said that the document to discontinue the investigation into the Katyn "contains secrets which disclosure could harm national security". The accusators pointed out the contradictory position of the Russian authorities in this matter. On the one hand, the Russians say they do not take responsibility for events that can be attributed to the Soviet regime, on the other hand - they classify records of investigations, and consider them to be detrimental to the interests of modern Russia.

Here is short article in english about the case:
http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/96532,Human-Rights-court-unable-to- come-to-1940-Katyn-massacre-ruling

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Edited by: isthatu2 Apr 16, 12, 15:39 #6
Alligator: This means that the crime is not subject to limitation, and its perpetrators can be prosecuted. Good luck bringing Uncle Joe to trail........................ The NKVD murdered Polish people. This is fact, anything else now just seems like a nice little earner for the Legal teams (probably descendants of NKVD/KBW officers anyway....).

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Apr 16, 12, 16:01 #7

isthatu2:

Good luck bringing Uncle Joe to trail........................

When I wrote that I meant that they can be persecuted more in a historical sense. In 90s some of the murderes still lived, but the Russian prosecutors investigated so diligently and were so effective that non of the perpetrators were put to trial. Families of the victims accusations are more about that investigation, than the actual crime.

isthatu2:

The NKVD murdered Polish people. This is fact,

only for some, unfortunately...

isthatu2:

a nice little earner for the Legal teams (probably descendants of NKVD/KBW officers anyway....).

Families of the victims probably don't care who are the Russian lawyers.

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Apr 16, 12, 18:31 #8
Alligator: When I wrote that I meant that they can be persecuted more in a historical sense Very wrong, since there's nobody alive who is guilty. The only possibility is suing the Russian officials for obstructing justice. Alligator: Families of the victims accusations are more about that investigation, than the actual crime. Exactly.

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Apr 16, 12, 21:46 #9

jon357:

The only possibility is suing the Russian officials for obstructing justice.Alligator: Families of the victims accusations are more about that investigation, than the actual crime.
Exactly.

and they are doing exactly that, so what your point... I don't get it

jon357:

Very wrong, since there's nobody alive who is guilty

Thanks for reminding me, although I don't think it was necessary....

The process in Strasbourg is about how modern Russia investigated the case of the Katyn massacre, or rather about how Russia was doing everything to not investigate.

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Apr 16, 12, 22:19 #10
Alligator: and they are doing exactly that, so what your point... I don't get it I'm agreeing with you and you don't get it? Alligator: The process in Strasbourg is about how modern Russia investigated the case of the Katyn massacre, or rather about how Russia was doing everything to not investigate. I wish the litigants good luck, but I'm not sure they'll win.

AlligatorThreads: - Posts: 350 Joined: Dec 15, 10 ♂	Apr 16, 12, 22:27 #11
jon357: I'm agreeing with you and you don't get it? yes, ;) internet is a scary thing ;)

jon357Threads: - Posts: 621 Joined: Mar 15, 12 ♂	Edited by: jon357 Apr 16, 12, 22:55 #12
Alligator: yes, ;) internet is a scary thing ;) Too many arguments here ;-) If there is one single issue in Polish Russian relations that needs closure it is that one. Even the Japanese came clean over the murder of prisoners of war in the end.

PierdolskiThreads: - Posts: 41 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Apr 17, 12, 03:40 #13
Any true Polish patriot would have sided with Nazi Germany before the Socialist Commie Russians.

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Apr 17, 12, 13:22 #14

Alligator:

Families of the victims accusations are more about that investigation, than the actual crime.

its understandable for sure,I just feel though that if I know the Russians will never,ever *back down* or admit they were in anyway wrong(without a million and one weak justifications) and I was lucky enough to be brought up the other side of the Iron Curtain Id have thought Poles would know this too.
As I said, I feel for the families but someone somewhere is making a lot of money out of this. When this inquiry into the last inquiry is over no doubt there wil be another inquiry into why the last one didnt get all the answers and on and on it will roll......

Pierdolski:

Any true Polish patriot would have sided with Nazi Germany

Is that what Grandad told you when you asked why he was on the wrong side of an MG 42 on Omaha beach?

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