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Polish hatred towards Jews...


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HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 15:26    #331
Switek:
Germans used to executed entire families for such help, in practice Germans murdered all inhabitants of the home where Jews were hidden.

That would be very much the exception rather than the rule. For examples read "Hitler's willing executioners" by Goldhagen or "Ordinary men" by Browning.

You might also want to note that, despite the claims of certain Poles, people in occupoed countries other than Poland were also executed by the nazis for helping Jews.

SwitekThreads: 1
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 Jun 4, 09, 16:01    #332
Harry:
That would be very much the exception rather than the rule. For examples read "Hitler's willing executioners" by Goldhagen or "Ordinary men" by Browning.

It was a rule. This is what Wiki says:

Poland was the only occupied country during World War II where the Nazis formally imposed the death penalty[39] for anybody found sheltering and helping Jews.[116][117]

The penalty applied not only to the person who did the helping, but also extended to his or her family, neighbors and sometimes to an entire village.[118] In this way Germans applied the principle of collective responsibility whose purpose was to encourage neighbors to inform on each other in order to avoid punishment. The nature of these policies was widely known and visibly publicized by the Nazis who sought to terrorize the Polish population.

And take a look there and there

Harry:
You might also want to note that, despite the claims of certain Poles, people in occupoed countries other than Poland were also executed by the nazis for helping Jews.

Of course they were executed individually but there weren't collective responsibly in occupied Europe expect invaded Poland.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Jun 4, 09, 16:15    #333
Another opinon by a holocaust survivor:

http://kimel.net/jewpol.html

...
After the Hitler's attack on Russia, and the onset of the Holocaust, the Poles created a myth, that is still alive today, that the Jews are responsible for Stalin's persecution of the Poles. It was a convenient myth, it enabled the majority of the Poles to stand by and watch the destruction of the Jewish community, waiting to inherit the Jewish properties.

Generally, In Poland the rate of survival of the Jews was abysmal, about 1 percent only, compared to 75 % in France. It is true that only a small minority of Poles actively helped the Germans, by denouncing the Jews hiding under assumed Polish identity, catching the hiding Jews and delivering them to the Germans, or killing them outright. Some Polish underground organization like the NSZ, existed for the sole purpose of killing the Jews hiding in the forest.

It is also true, that many Poles, selflessly helped the Jews. Jewish children were hidden in many convents, and there was also a Polish organization, for helping Jews - Zegota.
The problem, in my opinion is that the silent, hostile majority, allowed a minority actively to participate in the destruction of their compatriots. It is also true, that in the Eastern part of Poland, the Poles being a minority persecuted by the Ukrainians, had more empathy for the Jews.


HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 16:49    #334
Switek:
It was a rule. This is what Wiki says:

Poland was the only occupied country during World War II where the Nazis formally imposed the death penalty[39] for anybody found sheltering and helping Jews.[116][117]

The penalty applied not only to the person who did the helping, but also extended to his or her family, neighbors and sometimes to an entire village.[118] In this way Germans applied the principle of collective responsibility whose purpose was to encourage neighbors to inform on each other in order to avoid punishment. The nature of these policies was widely known and visibly publicized by the Nazis who sought to terrorize the Polish population.
And take a look there and there

It was not a rule. With the exception of wikipedia, which I will deal with in a moment, none of your sources say it was a rule. The wikipedia quote links to an article http://isurvived.org/Frameset4References-3/-PolishRighteous.html which does not say “but also extended”. It actually says “this punishment was quite often imposed not only on the rescuer, but also on his/her family”. How surprising to find yet another wikipedia article which doesn’t say what the original source says but instead says something which is more favourable to Poles. It is also interesting to note that the author of the original article is ignorant of basic historical facts as she says “about 85% of Poland’s Jews either did not speak Polish or spoke a dialect” (which is complete rubbish) and “Gdansk (renamed Danzig)” (the name had been Danzig for a good number of years before 1939!). So she might not be the most reliable of sources.
SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 4, 09, 18:17    #335
Bratwurst Boy:
Another opinon by a holocaust survivor:

as to the miths:
KPP was communistic organistaion in Poland before WWII ...
Jews constituted 53% of the "active members" of the KPP, 75% of its "publication apparatus," 90% of the "international department for help to revolutionaries" and 100% of the "technical apparatus" of the Home Secretariat. In Polish court proceedings against communists between 1927 and 1936, 90% of the accused were Jews. In terms of membership, before its dissolution in 1938, 25% of KPP members were Jews; most urban KPP members were Jews—a substantial number, given an 8.7% Jewish minority in prewar Poland.

Source :

Poland's Holocaust: Ethnic Strife, Collaboration with Occupying Forces and Genocide.... McFarland & Company. pp. 36–37.

Even your Der Spiegel mentioned some graves of ethnic Poles in eastern Poland under Soviet occupation (1939).

Anny way ... I am not going to accuse anny ethinc group.

Germans came to Poland with plan and made it real. Murdered milions of people ... 6 mln citizens ... it is not so easy to clean te hands as long as one ethnic group received huge compensation and other haven't.
SwitekThreads: 1
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 Jun 4, 09, 18:23    #336
Harry, whether you like it or not, deny or not, collective responsibility was a rule.

The difference between Poles and other nations (from western Europe and Baltics) in treatment by German invaders was significant. Dutchmen, Frenchmen, Estonians in Nazi plans were to built one thousand years lasting Third Reich, Poles, just after, Jews, Gypsies and Russians were subhumans to be exterminated. Germans during WW2 didn't care about lives of few Poles more or less. This is why they used a collective responsibility so willingly to decrease potential help to Jews at any price. In this case price was low: a cost of ammo used in such murders. You should also know that first victims of German terror were (mainly) Poles and Jews when Germans started to implement "Intelligenzaktion" in late September 1939 and took 60.000 causalities till spring 1940. Direct terror did not target Jews themselves, but in parallel Poles, what Jews are hardly aware.

It was a common rule, used from 1941/42, when Germans found hidden Jews they usually did not bother with details like special courts and legal procedures, they killed at the place all Jews, and all Poles who could be potentially involved without time consuming investigations and so on. Just because. Subhumans weren't individuals to be protected by law.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 4, 09, 18:28    #337
http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/data.show.php?di=record&da=encyclope dia&ke=107

...The Poles were also witnesses to the destruction of the Jews. Most were passive witness who did nothing to aid their neighbors nor did they assist the Germans in destroying them. But by remaining passive (it is arguable) they took on a kind of bystander guilt and complicity.

A minority of Poles co-operated with the Germans by turning in Jews who were in hiding to get rewards of money or goods. A different minority became the so-called Righteous Gentiles who risked their own lives to save Jews. A majority of the Righteous Gentiles honored at Yad Vashem are Poles...

..
During the War Jews were appalled by the lack of aid they received from their neighbors and what they took to be avariciousness as some Poles usurped Jewish property now suddenly become available. The small number of Poles who preyed on Jews by turning them in for rewards made every Pole a risk to Jewish confidence. Jewish partisans were attacked and killed by Polish right wing nationalist groups who instead of making common cause against the Germans regarded the Jews as their enemies also.

It is hard to know how many Poles had sympathy for their Jewish neighbors but were paralyzed into inaction by fear. Yet incidents described above were frequent enough that it was a common Jewish perception of Polish attitudes that they were either indifferent to Jewish suffering or positively glad that the Jews were being removed.

http://www.kimel.net/poland.html

...
The Germans robbed the Poles of their political rights, but the German extended some of their rights and gave them some opportunities.
They gave them the right to abuse the Jews, to become Jew Hunters, to enjoy a spectacles of Jews being driven to their deaths, or being burned in the flames of the Ghettos.
Hitler had an effective policy of sharing spoils with future victims and he corrupted the Poles with the opportunities to take over the Jewish businesses, properties, apartments, and their personal belongings. ...

There was a saying among the Poles under the occupation: " The Germans will throw stones at Hitler dead, because he brought about the downfall of the German people, but the Poles will bring flowers to his grave as a token of gratitude of his freeing Poland from the Jews.

Is that so?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 4, 09, 18:39    #338
What do you say about these personal accounts Lukas?
Do you think they are not reliable?
HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 18:39    #339
Switek:
Harry, whether you like it or not, deny or not, collective responsibility was a rule.

Pity that you can not produce any credible sources which say that it was a rule. In fact the evidence says that it was not.


Switek:
Direct terror did not target Jews themselves, but in parallel Poles, what Jews are hardly aware.

I can't speak for any Jews, but I have been to the cemetery in Palmiry and seen for myself the crosses and Jewish tombstones there.


Salomon:
KPP was communistic organistaion in Poland before WWII ...

Want to mention what happened to the members of the KPP?
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Jun 4, 09, 18:58    #340
Harry:
Switek:
Germans used to executed entire families for such help, in practice Germans murdered all inhabitants of the home where Jews were hidden.

That would be very much the exception rather than the rule.

Wrong, Harry. It depends when it happened. At the beginning of the war Germans would even emptied the whole city building and shoot people on the street just as example to others. After Stalingrad they might "just" shoot caught Jew and one Pole directly involved. Those were basically individual calls.
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
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 Jun 4, 09, 21:11    #341
Some Polish underground organization like the NSZ, existed for the sole purpose of killing the Jews hiding in the forest[/quote]
What a bunch of bullsh!t.

NSZ, existed for the sole purpose of killing the Jews hiding in the forest is as true as Gestapo and SS existed solely to bring help to suppressed, poor people of Poland.

The author of that mythories, oop, memories, forgot to mention that NSZ (and other underground units) were fighting against soviet partisans, not Jews. But, because there were plenty of Jews between the soviet occupant's units, Jews were killed as well.

But why mention that? Fvck that. Poles were, are and will be nasty antisemites killing Jews just for a sheer fun of Jew-killing.

Bratwurst Boy:
Most were passive witness who did nothing to aid their neighbors nor did they assist the Germans in destroying them. But by remaining passive (it is arguable) they took on a kind of bystander guilt and complicity.

Hmm... I didn't know it was a duty for Polish men and women to die for Jews, especially when there was a law telling exactly what happens for a pleasure of helping Jews.

Harry:
In fact the evidence says that it was not.

The occupation authorities threatened with death any person who obstructed Nazi designs to destroy the Jews. This dire punishment was not only written in the law and known to studious attorneys but made public by posters on bulletin boards in all major cities.

link

15 October – Governor General Hans Frank issues a regulation forbidding the Jews to leave the ghetto. The violation of this ban is subject to death penalty. Those who help Jews, especially by giving them a shelter, are also subject to capital penalty.

[url=http://www1.dziennik.krakow.pl/ipn/zycie_w_krakowskim_getcie/kale ndarium.htmllink[/url]


Poster
link

--
ABRAMEK, Wladyslaw, 20, living at Wola Przybyslawska, near Garbow, Lublin prov.
Killed on Dec. 10, 1942, while staying at his cousin's home, Jozef Aftyka, who sheltered Jews.

ADAMCZYK, Stanislaw, living at Lacko, Nowy Sacz prov.
Wladyslaw Gleb, the German town mayor of Mszana Dolna, beat him to death in the spring of 1943 for sheltering a Jew.

AFTYKA, Jozef, 54, living at Wola Przybyslawska, near Garbow, Lublin prov.
FTYKA, Aniela, 52, Jozef's wife
AFTYKA, Marianna, 14, daughter
AFTYKA, Zofia, 17, daughter
They were murdered on Dec. 10, 1942 together with a group of Jews sheltered by them and with Wladyslaw Abramek. On the same day, Czeslaw and Leonard Gawron from the same village were also killed together with Aniela and Stanislaw Kaminski, 5 members of the Nalewajka family and five (5) others of the Ochminski family - a total of 19 people

AMBROZY, Marianna, 75, living at Podborek, Radom prov.
Died on July 11, 1943, together with the Kowalczyk family, shot on the charge of helping Jews

ANICET (i.e. priest Wojciech KOPLINSKI) 66, chaplain of the monastery in Miodowa Street in Warsaw. Arrested on Oct. 16, 1941 for aiding Jews and died the same year at Auschwitz.

ARASZKIEWICZ, Aleksandra, living at Cisie, near Ceglow, Siedlce prov.
A sizable group of Jews from Ceglow took refuge in the village of Cisie, among them: Esther, Yoyne Mendel and the baby Jablonka Goldstein as well as Jews who escaped from the "death trains" to Treblinka, via Ceglow. On June 28, 1943 raids were carried out in the village by the military police from Minsk Mazowiecki, during which 25 Poles, incl. railway workers, were snatched from their homes and murdered, together with numerous Jews they sheltered: Aleksandra Araszkiewicz, Marcin Dabrowski, Franciszek Fiutkowski, Aleksander Gasior, Henryk Gergera, Rozalia Jaworski with her 2 year old daughter, Tadeusz Lipinski, Zygmunt Malus, Stanislaw Pezyk, Tomasz and Sylweriusz Platek, Edward Rzysko, Wladyslaw Saski, Eugeniusz Skwiecinski, Marian and Piotr Smater, Jan Szczesny, Jozefa Szyperski, Aleksandra, Jan and Mieczyslaw Wasowski, Wladyslaw Wojcicki, Jan Zaganczyk and Ludwik Zajac. Wieslaw Walczewski was arrested the same day, but shot in January 1944. The village was burnt down.

ARCHUTOWSKI, Roman, priest, rector of the Archdiocesan Seminary in Warsaw.
Sent to the Majdanek camp for aiding Jews; died after torture in Oct. 1943

and on and on.


Let me ask you again, moral judges of Poles, would YOU risk your children lives to save a Jew?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 4, 09, 21:14    #342
Easy_Terran:
Hmm... I didn't know it was a duty for Polish men and women to die for Jews, especially when there was a law telling exactly what happens for a pleasure of helping Jews.

Hey...I didn't wrote that!
I wondered why many Jews have only venom for Poles even as Yad Vashem seems to tell a different story so I looked for online "survivor-stories" from Poland...
Well...if I were a Jew reading this I would get a skewed impression too!
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Jun 4, 09, 21:18    #343
Easy_Terran:
Let me ask you again, moral judges of Poles, would YOU risk your children lives to save a Jew?

I think most people would not risk their own necks to save someone who is not of their own family and even that i am unsure of.
To put it another way, would any of you, put your life or that of your family on the line for me?.
Answers on a post card to :
No.142 I know the answer already
Maxwell house
Paris.

That is why the people who did risk it all should be honoured, for that is true bravery.
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
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 Jun 4, 09, 21:21    #344
Bratwurst Boy:
Hey...I didn't wrote that!

I know, I know!

SeanBM:
Answers on a post card to :
No.142 I know the answer already
Maxwell house
Paris.

LOL
SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 4, 09, 23:06    #345
Bratwurst Boy:
Hey...I didn't wrote that!I wondered why many Jews have only venom for Poles even as Yad Vashem seems to tell a different story so I looked for online "survivor-stories" from Poland...Well...if I were a Jew reading this I would get a skewed impression too!

Well here is link to offcial site of Polish jews where they talk about " engagement in communism"

http://fzp.net.pl/spot12.html



You know BB it is not secret in Poland.

The same as who murdered Gen Nil you can watch good movie about it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emil_August_Fieldorf

In (2009) a historical drama movie entitled Generał Nil based on Fieldorf's life premiered in Poland to generally positive reviews. It was directed by Ryszard Bugajski and the protagonist was played by Olgierd Łukaszewicz.

The charges against her were initiated by the Commission for Investigating Crimes against the Polish Nation, which claimed that Wolińska was an "accessory to a court murder", classified as a Stalinist crime, and is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The case attracted international attention.[1]Wolińska-Brus died 26 November 2008

and here is his dauther talking about ethnic grup of people who murdered him :



I don't care if it is popular subject in the world but you can't change facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Wolińska-Brus

Wolińska was born in a Polish Jewish family in Warsaw,

Lt. Col. Helena Wolińska-Brus (1919-2008) (born as Fajga Mindla Danielak) was a military prosecutor in Poland with the rank of lieutenant-colonel (podpułkownik), involved in Stalinist regime show trials of the 1950s. She has been implicated in the arrest - and in some cases death - of key figures in Poland's anti-Nazi resistance.

It wasn't mith ... and I am not accusing anny ethnic group.

As to WWII:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Poles_during_the_Holoca ust

Polish Jews were the primary victims of the German Nazi-organized Holocaust. Throughout the German occupation of Poland, many Polish gentiles — at great risk to themselves and their families — rescued Jews from the Nazis. Evidence indicates there were more Polish rescuers than people from any other nation.[1]

Some estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue at up to 3 million, and credit Poles with saving up to around 450,000 Jews from certain death. Israel has awarded 6,135 Righteous among the Nations medals to Polish gentiles, more than to any other nation.[2] The rescue efforts were aided by one of the largest anti-Nazi resistance movements in Europe, the Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa. Supported by the Polish government in exile, these organizations operated special units dedicated to helping Jews; of those, the most notable was Żegota.

As to Germans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939–1945)

Over 6 million Polish citizens — nearly 21.4% of the pre-war population of the Second Polish Republic — died between 1939 and 1945.[64] Over 90% of the death toll involved non-military losses, as most civilians were targets of various deliberate actions by the Germans and Soviets.[64]

Both occupiers wanted not only to gain Polish territory, but also to destroy Polish culture and the Polish nation as a whole

Losses by ethnic group were 3,100,000 Jews; 2,000,000 ethnic Poles

Nothing makes your responisiblity for ethnic Poles killed lower.
HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 23:22    #346
Bzibzioh:
Wrong, Harry. It depends when it happened. At the beginning of the war Germans would even emptied the whole city building and shoot people on the street just as example to others. After Stalingrad they might "just" shoot caught Jew and one Pole directly involved. Those were basically individual calls.

As noted before, perhaps you could provide even a single reliable source for that. The 'best' source for information as to who was shot by whom are the interviews with members of Police 101, as quoted extensively in "Hitler's willing executioners" and "Ordinary men". Neither talk of whole families being shot. Indeed both speak of fathers being told to either surrender childern who hid Jews so they could be shot or being shot themselves.


Easy_Terran:
The author of that mythories, oop, memories, forgot to mention that NSZ (and other underground units) were fighting against soviet partisans, not Jews. But, because there were plenty of Jews between the soviet occupant's units, Jews were killed as well.

But why mention that? Fvck that. Poles were, are and will be nasty antisemites killing Jews just for a sheer fun of Jew-killing.

It is completely wrong to portray NSZ as an organisation which existed solely to kill Jews. However it is beyond doubt (even contemporary nazi reports confirm) that the NSZ did organise Jew hunts and that they were not fussy about whether the Jews they killed were Soviet collaborators/supporters or not.


Easy_Terran:
Let me ask you again, moral judges of Poles, would YOU risk your children lives to save a Jew?

Good question. And one I'm glad I'll never have to answer.

But I can answer one question for you: would I factor in a person's race/colour/creed/ethnicity/sexuality/origin when deciding whether to help them? Never. Humans are humans.
SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 4, 09, 23:28    #347
Harry:
It is completely wrong to portray NSZ

Isn't it organisation which liberated concentration camp in Czech rep. (after fight with havy losses) ?
HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 23:32    #348
Salomon:
Isn't it organisation which lebrated concentration camp i Czech rep. (after fight with hevy losses) ?

I have no idea (although I'd welcome some links about that if you have any because I'm researching them right now for my next research trip for my next book).

But if they were, does that excuse their spring Jew hunts? Or explain why they shot Jewish children?
SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 4, 09, 23:39    #349
Harry:
I have no idea (although I'd welcome some links about that if you have any because I'm researching them right now for my next research trip for my next book).But if they were, does that excuse their spring Jew hunts? Or explain why they shot Jewish children?

Oh well so manybe instead of hateful statements :


"In the fight against the Nazis again on May 5, 1945 in Bohemia, where the NSZ brigade liberated female prisoners from a concentration camp in Holiszowo, including 280 Jewish prisoners. The brigade suffered heavy casualties."

Out of the Inferno: Poles Remember the Holocaust edited by Richard Lukas, pg 22.
HarryThreads: 62
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 Jun 4, 09, 23:50    #350
Salomon:
Oh well so manybe instead of hateful statements :


"In the fight against the Nazis again on May 5, 1945 in Bohemia, where the NSZ brigade liberated female prisoners from a concentration camp in Holiszowo, including 280 Jewish prisoners. The brigade suffered heavy casualties."

Yes, but now we are talking about not NSZ but Brygada Świętokrzyska, i.e. the same men who had collaborated with the Nazis in order to escape from the Red Army!
SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 5, 09, 00:04    #351
Here is full info about this organisation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_Mountains_Brigade

NSZ(Narodowe Siły Zbrojne) - Obława

SalomonThreads: 6
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Edited by: Salomon  Jun 5, 09, 00:54    #352
We can debate about this small brigade ... and their engagment. Finaly they weren't shot in the head or hanged by some of communistic (not all Jews were commies) Holocaust survivors or NKVD which murdered or inprisoned most of anti-Nazi resistance members in Poland....

Like for example Żegota members :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Żegota
"Żegota" ( [ʐˈɡɔt̪a] (help·info)), also known as the "Konrad Żegota Committee,"[1] was a codename for the Council to Aid Jews (Rada Pomocy Żydom), an underground organization in German-occupied Poland from 1942 to 1945.

It operated under the auspices of the Polish Government in Exile through the Government Delegation for Poland, in Warsaw. Żegota's express purpose was to aid the country's Jews and find places of safety for them in occupied Poland. Poland was the only country in occupied Europe where there existed such a dedicated secret organization

Yes it is true... most of them was inprisoned or murdered after the war ...


Polish hatred towards Jews...

Well we already know all stereotypes. Now going back to responisibilty.

Jews aren't resposnible for their guards or collabprators. Jews were victimes of Nazi Germany. Poles were vicitmes of Nazi Germany and Soviets ...

Life of 2 000 000 people killed by Germans isn't worth less than 3 000 000 Jews killed by Germans.
pawianThreads: 90
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 Jun 5, 09, 01:32    #353
Easy_Terran:
Let me ask you again, moral judges of Poles, would YOU risk your children lives to save a Jew?

It was a hard decision, especially that every neighbour of yours could be an informer, for financial gratification or out of malice.
Did you read Medaliony excerpt above? Why does nobody help the wounded Jewish woman? There wasn`t any SS, gestapo or blue police around the site for many hours.
People weren`t scared of Germans as much as they were scared of each other. And that is the greatest reason why so few Jews were rescued from Holocaust in Poland.

As for answering your question, nobody knows what they would do in such a situation. But knowing my compassionate nature, I suppose I wouldn`t be able to refuse help. With God`s guidance, everything would end happily.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
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 Jun 5, 09, 01:43    #354
Salomon:
and Soviets ...

Jews were victims of Soviets when the Bourgeoisie were deported to Siberia. Communists disapproved of a thriving merchant class.
Easy_TerranThreads: 4
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 Jun 5, 09, 01:47    #355
Harry:
But I can answer one question for you: would I factor in a person's race/colour/creed/ethnicity/sexuality/origin when deciding whether to help them? Never.

And I am with you here.
I deeply don't give a sh!te what colour a person is or what s/he believes in.

If I could help, most likely I would (honestly I don't know).

BUT,
if there's a most likely certain death waiting for me, my children and few neighbours for even speaking to a wanted person, I KNOW I would not spend a second trying to help.

Am I a coward? Perhaps.
Am I guilty of doing nothing? Sure.

But get this: I am alive, me and my family survived, so you can go and fvck yourself with your stupid accusation of 'Poles didn't do enough', or 'not enough Poles died', or 'Poles are guilty of complicity'. Wear my shoes first, dumbsh!t and then speak out

[ not to you personally, Harry, no, just generalizing here and reaching out to all those moral fvcking jugdes of this world who condemn the Poles because of what happened during the ww2 ]
LAGirlThreads: 13
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 Jun 5, 09, 02:00    #356
Aagain you all just jealouse because they are smarter then the Poles.admit it.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
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 Jun 5, 09, 02:02    #357
LAGirl:
Aagain you all just jealouse because they are smarter then the Poles.admit it.

LAGirl you prolly have no idea where the jews come from. I say Poles and Jews are matched in smarts. They are pretty much equals. I'm Polish and I am way smarter than the average American. Poles are smart. That's the bottom line. So are Jews. We got it in our genes :D
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08
 Jun 5, 09, 12:06    #358
Easy_Terran:
If I could help, most likely I would (honestly I don't know).

This statement is very true, we have all had this discussion at some stage in our lives.
And the truth is we will never know until we are in this position, and I truly hope none of us ever are.

LAGirl:
Aagain you all just jealouse because they are smarter then the Poles.admit it.

Perhaps rephrasing this would be a good idea?.
Let me attempt,
It appears that people of the Jewish faith worship knowledge and there must be real pressure on their youth to study, go to University and do good business and make lots of money.
Sure didn't the King of Poland, all those hundreds of years ago, invite over a load of Jews to do the banking and business because they were so well educated at these things?.
It appears Jews studied hard and remained a people without a country for so long because of their persistence and belief.
Perhaps a bit like when Poland did not exist for 150 years, but the people believed it did.
But personally I think a bit more diplomatic integration would have been good, how? I hear you ask, I haven't got the foggiest.
The Polish people I have met certainly do not hate Jews, why would they?.

It appears to me that Jews fled persecution from all over Europe and settled here, in Poland, very well then the German Nazis came and changed all that, set up death camps killing Poles and people of the Jewish faith.
Now people remember Jews being killed in Poland, well come over and see for yourselves.
There is a fantastic Jewish festival in Krakow each year, celebrating everything Jewish.
anton888Threads: 1
Posts: 103
Joined: Jun 5, 09
 Jun 5, 09, 12:15    #359
Here again. Whenever there is something about Jews or Isreal, their supporters start to talk about what happened in WW2. Plsease, there are many people died in that war, Jews are not the only who suffered, what about the Chinese, they were as well tortured and killed by the Jap by millions. So should we start to talk about this when someone critised China on human right issues? What is going on in Palestan is the reason why people don't like Jews today, nothing about WW2. I am very sorry about what happened to them during Nazi era, but that's the past and stop using it to cover those crimes they are commiting right now. Not only Polish, anyone who believe in peace will hate Jews!
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,727
Joined: Mar 10, 08
 Jun 5, 09, 13:12    #360
anton888:
What is going on in Palestan is the reason why people don't like Jews today

Although you have a valid point I would not have made this statement.
What is going on in Palestine is the reason why people don't like Israel today.
I do see a difference, do you?.


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