Polish hatred towards Jews...

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Edited by: vetala Nov 26, 09, 18:19 #781

Steveramsfan

"Today Jews in Poland continue to suffer abuse."
I really hate phrases like this one. When a Jew is beaten do death in France it's said that 'there are antisemitic incidents in France' when a Jew is insulted by someone in Poland: 'In Poland Jews suffer abuse'

yehudi:

I get the impression that Polish emigrants in the US are stuck with the attitude of their grandparents about Jews, while in Poland itself things have evolved.

Ah, I thought exactly the same thing!

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09 ♂	Edited by: sjam Nov 26, 09, 18:23 #782
Steveramsfan: I just read this article. To me the tragedy of this story is that this woman feels she will now be hated as a Jew by her own in-laws, and that she feels her children's life might also be adversely affected by the revelation. How sad for Poland :-((

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 26, 09, 18:34 #783
sjam: How sad for Poland :-(( what now? she feels .....there is question whatever her feelings are justified.

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09 ♀	Nov 26, 09, 18:45 #784
sjam: How sad for Poland :-(( Sad for Poland, indeed. Now everybody's gonna think that we're a country were every person with the slightest connection to Judaism is publicly stigmatized and probably chased with pitchforks. And really, the story about hair-pulling ('I was made to feel different!') is so ridiculous.

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 26, 09, 19:59 #785
Why are we talking about Israel and its issues with a gang of dirty smelly Arab muSLIMES? The main topic is "Is Poland anti-semitic or not"... I have many Polish contacts and my best friends are Poles ...

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Nov 26, 09, 20:07 #786

vetala:

Sad for Poland, indeed. Now everybody's gonna think that we're a country were every person with the slightest connection to Judaism is publicly stigmatized and probably chased with pitchforks.

Why, of course the woman is lying... what has she to worry about?

"My husband is Catholic," Barbara says, "He didn't want the girls to know. His own family didn't like Jews. He didn't want the girls to have problems.

Sad for Poland, indeed, that one woman who lived her life not being a Jew finds out she is a Jew and is now afraid that her in-laws will find out if she tells her children because ....

"And my mother-in-law doesn't like Jews. As for my husband's grandmother, she hates Jews."

vetala:

ridiculous.

May seem like that to you but obviously not to her and her Catholic husband! Maybe if you are a Polish Jew yourself you might have more positve experiences to share?

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 26, 09, 20:20 #787
sjam: May seem like that to you but obviously not to her and her Catholic husband! yeah listen to morons with identity problems, and in what way she is Jew? She is Polish, even if of the Jewish origin. Some moron spread it thick and some are buying it and popularizing, one have to ask for what reason?

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Edited by: vetala Nov 26, 09, 20:41 #788

sjam:

Maybe if you are a Polish Jew yourself you might have more positve experiences to share?

No, I'm not and yes, I can share positive stories. As for the woman - of course there are antisemites in Poland just as there are racists in America, and if her in-laws are like that then I'm not surprised that she would rather keep them in dark about her origins. It's no different from an African-American marrying a white American whose parents are racists. However, what pisses me off is the way the article is written, it implies that people with Jewish ancestry in Poland keep it secret out of fear of being persecuted by everybody. It's disturbing and untrue. I know lots of people with Jewish ancestry - they BRAG about it, they consider it to be interesting and cool and I have yet to personally meet a person who would think that it's something to be ashamed of.

As for positive stories - how about my one and only encounter with antisemitism? Someone wrote something nasty about Jews on the walls of my block's elevator. Or at least that's what I heard because it was immidiately erased and I only found out about this from the people who rode elevator with me later that day - they were OUTRAGED! They were speaking in high volume, cursing 'banditry' and 'hooliganism' and two days later the whole interior of the elevator was painted over. And please, try to understand - I live in a town in the most backward part of Eastern Poland and dirty phrases in elevators are nothing new. In fact, there were quite a few written there for YEARS (together with a highly inaccurate drawing of male genitalia) and nobody cared. The only thing that shocked and outraged people was antisemitism.
In conclusion - yes, there are antisemites in Poland since there was a person who wrote the antisemitic phrase on the inside of my elevator. But there were also at least four people who condemned it. They weren't even indifferent - they were anti-antisemites!
So - is Poland an antisemitic country, where 'Jews suffer abuse'? Or is it a normal country, where antisemitic incidents happen from time to time?

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Nov 27, 09, 00:38 #789

Yehudi, what boulderdash! Ben Gurion mentioned it as did a string of others. Are you really telling me that you know better than the former SG of the WJC?

So tell me straight please, sir, other than the phony 1948 UN declaration of Israeli statehood, upon what other premise do you base your right to Israel? Please show me clearly your RIGHT to that territory as opposed to it being Palestinian? I told you that territories absorbed through war are illegal under international law.

My preconceived notion of Israelis is people that fight for their very survival and are willing to go an extra step or 2 towards peace (not the govt). Most can live harmoniously with Palestinians but fear radical elements.

I got an insight into the kibbutz system as I did a class on it tonight. The Poles weren't so impressed but one defended it as he had been there. Poles tend to like one class of Jew, Polish Jews ;) ;)

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Edited by: cheehaw Nov 27, 09, 04:05 #790

sjam:

"My husband is Catholic," Barbara says, "He didn't want the girls to know. His own family didn't like Jews. He didn't want the girls to have problems.

Sad for Poland, indeed, that one woman who lived her life not being a Jew finds out she is a Jew and is now afraid that her in-laws will find out if she tells her children because ....

You failed to mention that a lot of catholics hate baptists too.

fair is fair.

need I mention kick a jew day:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/nov/23/north-naples-middle-suspend ed-kick-a-jew-day-email/

small planet or something else is happening here? Naples Florida has one of the highest per capita incomes of anywhere in the USA. just a tidbit of stats for what it's worth..

vetala:

I know lots of people with Jewish ancestry - they BRAG about it, they consider it to be interesting and cool

same here...

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 27, 09, 07:14 #791
cheehaw I would say that it's cool to be part of a culture that has lasted for 4000 years and has survived without fighting big wars or committing genocide on other folks. It's also cool to be part of a group of people who have won 180 nobel prizes.

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Nov 27, 09, 09:51 #792

vetala:

However, what pisses me off is the way the article is written, it implies that people with Jewish ancestry in Poland keep it secret out of fear of being persecuted by everybody.

However you would prefer it not to be, this does seems to be a recurring story.

But if what you are saying is that the situation is Jews in Poland do not fear persecution these days? Then have any serious studies been done on this in Poland to support your claim?

cheehaw:

You failed to mention that a lot of catholics hate baptists too.

Do Baptists in Poland feel the same fear of persecution in Poland as this particular, now Jewish, woman and her Catholic husband seemingly do? I think not unless you have evidence?

Of course she is still Polish and why would she not be?

Maybe she also has experience of Poles using the word 'Jew' in a derogative sense as happens all the time in the microcosm of Polish attitudes on this Polishforum. From reading many of the posts on PF one oftens see this attempted put-down by calling a dissenting poster a 'Jew' as if this is some ingrained Polish attitude of negativity in being a 'Jew'.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Nov 27, 09, 10:26 #793
Yeah, this "persecuted" woman would be very popular with the in-laws at Christmas telling them they got it all wrong.

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Edited by: vetala Nov 27, 09, 10:34 #794

sjam:

Then have any serious studies been done on this in Poland to support your claim?

I've seen Jews walking around in yarmulkas but I never noticed anyone spitting on them. There are Jewish movie directors, actors, politicians, writers and journalists in Poland. They don't hide it, they openly talk about it and they're still celebrities. There are Jewish studies, festivals of Jewish culture, Jewish kindergartens, Jewish newspapers and radio stations. There is no mob with pitchforks standing outside them.

Every person whose appearance, lifestyle and beliefs differ slightly from those of the majority fear persecution. It doesn't matter if you're a Jew, Black, Baptist, Jehova Witness or a boy with long hair - there will be people who will hold it against you. Hell, I'm an atheist and I've been 'persecuted' lots of times because of this. There are times when I pretend to be just a non-practicing catholic only because I'm too tired to get into arguments. But I won't cry and say that I am 'made to feel different and suffer abuse in Poland'.

As for using the word 'Jew' in a derogative sense - did you check the profiles of people who do this sort of thing? What makes you think that they're Polish?

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Edited by: cheehaw Nov 27, 09, 19:25 #795

I have to agree. people are like this every where you go, it seems to simply be human nature to identify with your own 'group'.

I grew up in a place where pretty much every day was kick a pollack day. And that was with a large polish community nearby to kick,. And I will never forget, it was so funny.. I was probably 11 or 12 years old.. my parents take us on our regular summer vacation tour America thing.. we did that every summer when i was a kid.. one or two weeks.. my parents would drive us to visit some new place we had never been.. so this time we head toward Norfolk Virginia where I had an older cousin working for NASA.. and we are in this little store, Hampton maybe, I forget exactly.. my 2 sisters, my mom and myself.. and we are talking.. and I hear this little girl in the next aisle saying to her mother that we talk funny (no southern twang) and before you know it, this little girl, she must have been all of 8 years old about 3 feet tall.. comes straight up to me and kicks me. really hard, in the shin. She says at the same time 'Stupid yankee!"

OMG it was so funny.

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Nov 28, 09, 02:09 #796

BrutalButcher:

people who have won 180 nobel prizes

With the financial and cultural support of the host nation(!). How many Nobels have the IL scholars won...? How many have the Muslim won? How many the Christians have?

sjam:

...Jews in Poland do not fear persecution these days? any serious studies been done on this in Poland to support your claim?

You're not serious, are you? No, you cannot be serious.
Have you actually read what you had asked?

A STUDY to prove that Jews are not persecuted, not shot point-blank in the streets of Poland, so they could feel OK?

Don't know: cry or laugh....?

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 02:14 #797
Easy_Terran: How many have the Muslim won? 5 and one of them was a peace nobel prize, so it doesn't count.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 02:49 #798
Polish Hatred of Gefilte Fish Angry Pole expresses hatred of traditional Jewish dish...The EU protests!

NikaThreads: 3 Posts: 651 Joined: Jul 21, 09 ♀	Nov 28, 09, 03:11 #799
Polish hatred towards Jews? Yad Vashem Righteous Among the Nations - per Country & Ethnic Origin January 1, 2009 - Poland is in the first place with 6,135 righteous: http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous_new/statistics.html Recently, after numerous racial incidents in France, the Israeli president called the Jews to leave France, not Poland, so pls don't get excited over how PL hates Jews...

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Nov 28, 09, 14:16 #800

True enough, Nika. The French have a much greater problem and Sarkozy must be wriggling around as he is a Jew of Hungarian decent himself. As I keep saying, it's all in the sell. I sold the Israeli people as highly respectable in my class on the kibbutz system and they agreed.

Truth be told, many of the younger generation have little or no exposure to Jews here and Poland is trying to see itself in the framework of Europe, not the ME. The biggest problem was with haggling. My wife haggled for a long time with this Jewish woman over the price of massage cream. They disliked the firm position of each other but that isn't hate, that's just style.

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 14:42 #801
Seanus: The French have a much greater problem It's not the French. It's muslims living in France.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 14:51 #802
Go on.....

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 15:45 #803
Seanus And sarkozy is not Jewish. He's a Roman catholic and that's as far as you can get from Judaism. Yes, he does have Jewish ancestry but he is NOT pro-Judaism!

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,895 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:14 #804
He also has hungarian and greek ancestry.Perfect combination.(I guess this guy is a perv).

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:21 #805
southern And a pornstar. No wonder he sucks as a president.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:29 #806
That guy doesn't know what the fu*k he is, BBut. The fact remains that France has a problem now and Sarkozy has Jewish roots.

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:34 #807
Seanus: The fact remains that France has a problem now and Sarkozy has Jewish roots. France has always had a problem: French people. Ok, I'm joking.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:40 #808
Wow, yet another nationalistic dig, any more while you are at it? Some French people are nice, some aren't, like anywhere. Any comment on the thread, lad? Even been to Poland even?

BrutalButcherThreads: 1 Posts: 623 Joined: Nov 10, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 16:51 #809
Seanus No, but as I said before: the Poles I know don't dislike Jews. They even claim some Jewish ancestry, which is totally cool.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 17:03 #810
Cool, that's better. My wife met a Polish Jew from Wrocław on her trip to Cyprus and Israel and she said he was one of the coolest guys she had ever met. She is not anti-Semitic but she isn't a fan of the Jews based on what her parents passed down to her. When we break prejudices and learn to get along, so many positive things can happen.

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