Polish hatred towards Jews...

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 17:13 #811
Seanus: When we break prejudices and learn to get along, so many positive things can happen. Tell that to the anti-semites on this forum. You know who I mean. >^..^< M-G (busy)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 17:16 #812
I keep saying it, I don't like what the IDF are doing but I'm not in Israel and never have been so I don't know the reality on the ground. I guess that they overreact but they go unpunished. Still, between peoples, I will judge them as just that. I'm sure I could get along with many Israelis. It's politics that divides!

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Edited by: MareGaea Nov 28, 09, 17:27 #813

I don't like the IDF as well, but I don't like what those suicide bombers and rocket launchers are doing either. There are too many ppl here that paint a too black picture of things. Some are notorious for finding ways to blacken Jews and Israelis. Some base their views on "proof" provided by White Supremacists and plain out hate-sites. Unfortunately it's Inet and even those ppl should get a window to vent their quirks and farts. Freedom of speech is what I stand for and I will always defend that, even when some misuse that freedom to vent opinions which basically limit that right to certain groups or individuals. This doesn't mean I necessarily like the fact that such tumors exist in society, and I will always keep fighting opinions that have the limiting of other opinions as a base. But to read those "opinions" sometimes literally makes me sick.

Seanus, question for you as humanist: tolerance is one of the greatest goods mankind knows nowadays; how would you see the way tolerant ppl should act towards intolerant ppl?

>^..^<

M-G (it's like that)

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Nov 28, 09, 17:36 #814

Well, the rocket launching is old news, M-G. Hamas has signed an agreement not to do it and, even before, it was another radical group that was doing it for so long.

Good question. I see it as an educating function. If we are to assume that much can be attributed to prejudice and lack of knowledge, we need to give them the facts as we know them and impart/disseminate as much as possible. We must understand how people come to take intolerant positions as the tabula rasa means they had none. We shouldn't be so quick to judge the intolerant as they are often just victims of disinformation through mass media. It doesn't mean that they don't have the potential to reform themselves and see the light. We have all changed and can change, we just need mentors and influences.

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Nov 28, 09, 18:12 #815

Number One, Hamas was funded and supported by Israel initially as a leverage against the PLO/PLA...This was merely for convenience, as when Hamas became a democratically elected governing party, they became 'the new enemy' and 'unacceptable' and 'terrorists'...Hamas goal was basically to form a governing body and provide social services for poor Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, especially since there was a void after Israel decided to 'vacate' Gaza, in terms of Jewish settlements...This, of course, was unacceptable to the Israelis because they must control all opposition...Hamas offered Israel a ten year truce, as far as conflict went, but the Israelis rejected this...You will not hear this fact stated on BBC, in the EU, nor in American media.

As for the talk of 'suicide bombers', this is nonsense...As I stated in a previous post, I have more of a chance of being attacked and killed by a 'Black terrorist' in my own neighborhood and city than the average Israeli does of suffering the same from a Palestinian.

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Nov 28, 09, 18:21 #816

Well said, Joe. The point is, modern global approaches demand that an enemy is needed. The IDF had their enemy in Hamas in OCL. However, the media played their part in overplaying their resistance. The very testimony of IDF soldiers in Burning Conscience: Soldier testimonies, shows that they were met with little or, sometimes, no resistance. We must bear in mind that many journalists were not allowed in until the third and final week of the conflict. Robert Fisk (not in OCL but before) and many other journalists were denied full filming rights and you have to wonder why.

Rockets and suicide bombers are vastly overstated and play more to paranoia than to a rational threat assessment.

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Edited by: Steveramsfan Nov 28, 09, 18:31 #817

Have any of you been to Israel? There is a reason there are not as many suicide bombings anymore.

Its called very high security.

MareGaea:

Seanus, question for you as humanist: tolerance is one of the greatest goods mankind knows nowadays; how would you see the way tolerant ppl should act towards intolerant ppl?

I think intolerance comes from a lack of education. The Media have a set agenda, you must know how to research subjects from every angle and not accept everything the newspapers tell you at face value.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 18:46 #818
I'm aware of the high security element. My wife was escorted everywhere by guards and felt safe enough. I seldom rely on newspapers for anything these days. I'm highly selective in what I take from an article.

SteveramsfanThreads: 2 Posts: 401 Joined: Nov 22, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 18:51 #819
Seanus: Rockets and suicide bombers are vastly overstated and play more to paranoia than to a rational threat assessment. One rocket attack is too many. Its the thought of more coming that is the bad part.

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Nov 28, 09, 19:12 #820

I agree, as would any rational person, that they are wrong but I examined the various stats available on the level of damage caused and I found that the damage done over 15 years was trivial compared to one 3-week operation. That tells its own story!

We must understand that, although we can't condone attacks, much in the same way as we can't condone stealing, we must understand why people do it. Desperate times call for desperate measures! This is my liberal compromise position. I see both sides of the coin.

SteveramsfanThreads: 2 Posts: 401 Joined: Nov 22, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 19:18 #821
The damage to property was minimal maybe. I can assure you that the mental damage was much higher. The Israel Defence Force wanted to stop the rockets all together so their civilians could live, work and sleep without worrying about bombs. On another side, IDF means "Israel Defence Force" but it also means "Indirect Fire".

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Nov 28, 09, 19:21 #822

I understand and appreciate that, Steve, but they need to face some misery too as they have been dishing it out for far too long. Please try and understand the Palestinians who often live in squalor and fear. If my family were being trampled on in 'occupied' territory, who knows what I would resort to? You see my point I presume? 2 wrongs don't make a right but we MUST imagine ourselves in that predicament.

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Nov 28, 09, 19:30 #823

Sorry, I was not meaning it was right for the 3 week assault, I just meant I understand why they did it. The Arabs are also wrong to fire rockets, you just don't know where they will land as they are not aimed.

I wish both sides would stop and live together peacefully. Don't "forget" the past but "forgive" the past. I don't hold Germans from my generation responsible for what Germans from my grandparents generation did to Britain. I have forgiven them but I've not forgotten it happened. Germans are nice people.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 28, 09, 19:33 #824

Steveramsfan:

One rocket attack is too many. Its the thought of more coming that is the bad part.

Do you live in Israel?...Listen, if you do, I tell you what: We swap for a year...I live in your place in Jaffa, suburban Jerusalem, wherever, and you come live in my place in SouthWest Philadelphia USA...You won't have to worry one bit about rocket attacks here...You may get jumped by a gang or shot in the head however, as a part of the natural course.

'Let's Trade Places!'

'Meat for Less' Store, 62 & Elmwood Avenue: I don't know about Kosher, but Halal, yes.

Typical House in my 'Hood'

We have a good 'light rail', Route #36

No more Palestinians to deal with...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Nov 28, 09, 19:36 #825
"You just don't know where they will land". Well, would you prefer them to be fired by those with know-how and precision that wanted to strike hospitals and vulnerable civilian populations? It doesn't seem like many Israeli air blasts or soldier shots were aimed either! Or was it the stated intention to take out so many women and children? (non-combatants)

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Edited by: Steveramsfan Nov 28, 09, 19:37 #826

Seanus:

Well, would you prefer them to be fired by those with know-how and precision that wanted to strike hospitals and vulnerable civilian populations?

My point was, it hits these places when its the Government and Politicians who should be being targeted.

joepilsudski:

Do you live in Israel?

No, I don't live in Israel, and you would not want to go where I was when I was under daily rocket attack either.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 19:40 #827
On the first point, I fully agree with no further commentary. On the second, I can imagine but both sides put fuel in the fire.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 19:41 #828
joepilsudski: SouthWest Philadelphia joepilsudski: You may get jumped by a gang or shot in the head If it's such a shithole then why live there?

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Nov 28, 09, 19:43 #829

MareGaea:

Seanus, question for you as humanist: tolerance is one of the greatest goods mankind knows nowadays; how would you see the way tolerant ppl should act towards intolerant ppl?

I know this wasnt addressed to me but WTH.

There are two approaches either ignore them or confront them head on.

Confronting them head on has a problem, it often lets them set the agenda, you are starting on the back foot, why argue on someone else’s terms.

By ignoring them they envelop themselves and others in a self spun web of nonsense that just becomes more ludicrous with time. The problem with this approach is because they haven’t been questioned, according to generally accepted norms, they then believe their [twisted] views have been endorsed.

If you go at them with a big bull neck, on your oun agenda, they always cry that it’s you depriving them of their rights [to be morons].

There are certain tenets of humanity that have been hard won and views that should not be tolerated or ignored.

I don’t believe it’s a lack of education or life experience that led them to those views, many racists are educated people. Under educated people tend not to be racist but some are, a point always ignored by the classic left.

Racism, anti-Semitism etc is something that ignores the traditional left/right divide and paradoxically is independent of colour, gender, social status and religion.

I don’t know where it comes from my guess is that it is a knee-jerk reaction to difference.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 28, 09, 19:46 #830

time means:

If it's such a shithole then why live there?

You ever hear the word 'money'?

It's not that bad really, I just try to give some people perspective...And, listen, if you under rocket attack, and you in the US military, I feel for you, but wherever you were, you should not have been there...The US military needs to protect our own borders and interests, not some globalist or Zionist fantasy plan.

Barney:

There are certain tenets of humanity that have been hard won and views that should not be tolerated or ignored.

I don’t believe it’s a lack of education or life experience that led them to those views, many racists are educated people. Under educated people tend not to be racist but some are, a point always ignored by the classic left.

Racism, anti-Semitism etc is something that ignores the traditional left/right divide and paradoxically is independent of colour, gender, social status and religion.

I guess in a perfect world, yes, but then it depends on whose ox is gored...

From YNet

Settlers to Ethiopian troops: N****** don't expel Jews

Border Guard officers of Ethiopian descent report rising number of racially motivated verbal attacks from Hebron youths; Druze officers also suffer racist remarks

Settlers in Hebron/Khalil

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3633163,00.html

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 19:49 #831
joepilsudski: It's not that bad really Glad to hear it :-)

SteveramsfanThreads: 2 Posts: 401 Joined: Nov 22, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 19:50 #832
Im not US Military. Believe me, I did not want to be there but it is my job to go where I'm told.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 09, 20:10 #833
Steveramsfan: Im not US Military. Believe me, I did not want to be there but it is my job to go where I'm told. You gotta work, man...Good luck to you.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended]	Dec 1, 09, 13:53 #834
joepilsudski: Polish Hatred of Gefilte Fish I like gefilte fish! I have some in my fridge right now! Will I be striped from my Polish citizenship for that? ;)

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07 ♂	Dec 1, 09, 20:14 #835
Bzibzioh: I like gefilte fish! I have some in my fridge right now! Will I be striped from my Polish citizenship for that? ;) You surely cannot be called an 'anti-semite' then...Me, I never like it, and I don't like lox either...Ugh!...Now, a good corned beef sandwich, or a brisket, any time!...My dad, when he was still alive, really liked kasha and 'bow ties' (noodles).

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Dec 8, 09, 14:02 #836

Well, I was having a discussion on Jewish people and I was singing the praises of some of their Noble prize winners and contribution to entertainment. There are some truly smart cookies within their ranks. I was asked to place them on a scale, sth I don't like doing, and was asked if they were above your average Pole in intelligence terms. If I was pushed to say, I'd say yes. This seemed to rile the Poles but I have no qualms in saying it.

Some are smart and some aren't. I don't like comparing and certainly dislike talking of better. Just different simply. It got a response though, lol.

We must acknowledge the great contribution of Jewish people across a range of disciplines.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Dec 8, 09, 14:19 #837
Seanus: on Jewish people and I was singing the praises of some of their Noble prize winners With the financial and cultural support of the host nation(!). How many Nobels have the IL scholars won? I already asked this question here

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Dec 8, 09, 14:27 #838

It's a hard call, ET. I dare say you are right if you put the right apparatus in place and create the right conditions. However, we should remind ourselves that real credit should go to those with real original thought and not any country. Scotland, for example, gets credited with creating Dolly but 2 Englishmen actually did the work. We can take some credit for giving them the means but it was their minds that did the hard work. A harder issue is pinpointing an inventor when others do the dogsbody work. Look at the lightbulb. Edison gets the praise for that but a Scotsman and many others laid the foundations for it. Pick an invention, rarely does it truly emanate from one distinctive source. WWW? All the work of Tim Berners-Lee? Hardly!

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Dec 8, 09, 14:32 #839
Seanus A Scotsman gets the credit for inventing the TV, but it was actually a German (Nipkov) who invented the principle and first TV. >^..^< M-G (he does get honoured in NL though)

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Edited by: Seanus Dec 8, 09, 14:37 #840

Ta, dupa! ;) Nipkov? Geez, what next, Sukmakokov or Bugarov? What did they invent, smartass? ;) ;) I think you've been watching too much Flash Gordon, M-G. Dr Flexi Jerkov ;) ;)

Let's stay on track. As a Scot, I can say that many Jews are creative people. They put themselves in the right places and can carve out niches for themselves.

I've noticed that it comes down to modesty and non-defensiveness to say that. I'm proud of what I and my countrymen have created. I have no reason to compare myself with the Jews, just to acknowledge their contribution to the world.

Seanus (yes, the IDF still need to get a grip)

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