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Polish Israelis slam halt of Holocaust restitution plans


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PennBoyThreads: 157
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 Mar 28, 11, 19:56    #1
Polish Prime Minister freezes work on law to compensate Jews for WWII-era properties due to current economic crisis.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/polish-israelis-slam-halt-of-holoc aust-restitution-plans-1.352355

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Mar 28, 11, 20:19    #2
What sum are we talking about? Is there a number?
PennBoyThreads: 157
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 Mar 28, 11, 20:27    #3
Bratwurst Boy:
What sum are we talking about? Is there a number?

"A draft bill currently before parliament, which would pay 15 percent compensation to former owners and their heirs, has drawn criticism from the groups.
The value of seized property for which compensation is being sought is estimated at 16 billion euros to 18 billion euros ($21.3 billion to $23.9 billion), according to the property owners' association."
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 28, 11, 20:29    #4
PennBoy:
"A draft bill currently before parliament, which would pay 15 percent compensation to former owners and their heirs, has drawn criticism from the groups.
The value of seized property for which compensation is being sought is estimated at 16 billion euros to 18 billion euros ($21.3 billion to $23.9 billion), according to the property owners' association."


All this is because of the idiotic way that they've gone about the property claims in the first place. I don't entirely blame the Jews for being upset - the Catholic Church has been getting huge amounts of money from the State in recent years - and while I agree with Tusk that enough is enough, the whole thing is a total joke - and Poland simply can't afford to pay out to *any* religious group or individuals.
isthatu2Threads: 13
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 Mar 28, 11, 20:30    #5
Bratwurst Boy:
Is there a number?

6 miilion?
wielki panThreads: 3
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 Mar 28, 11, 22:06    #6
delphiandomine:
the Catholic Church has been getting huge amounts of money from the State in recent years



Just a drop in the ocean compared to what is at stake with the Jewish claims, I have no problem with handed back Jewish churches/cementeries back, buildings which has changed several times over is a bit over the top.

Mr D its time you take your blinkers off and do some research before talking so much rubbish.
Marek11111Threads: 49
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 Mar 28, 11, 22:12    #7
Is there any proof process setup to claim the property? Do they want Poland to compensate for property in Ukraine and Belarus or Lithuania as parts of those countries were part of Poland before ww2?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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 Mar 28, 11, 22:32    #8
PennBoy:
The value of seized property for which compensation is being sought is estimated at 16 billion euros to 18 billion euros ($21.3 billion to $23.9 billion), according to the property owners' association."


Whoa...that's alot!
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Mar 28, 11, 23:10    #9
Bratwurst Boy:
Whoa...that's alot!

I saw the $60 billion number in some article. The Polish government planned to pay percentage of that sum anyway (between 10 and 20% of the value) so maybe that the lower $21 to 23 billion is coming from.
MediaWatchThreads: 31
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 Mar 28, 11, 23:12    #10
Bratwurst Boy:
Whoa...that's alot!




What do you think about this Holocaust scam?

FBI Report on 2010 Holocaust Scam
http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/november/holocaust_110910/holocau st_110910


I think its not only an insult to Holocaust survivors but also an insult to the Germans who are providing the Holocaust survivor compensation.
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Mar 28, 11, 23:18    #11
MediaWatch:
What do you think about this Holocaust scam?

The same problem is in Canada with those German compensation money.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Mar 28, 11, 23:29    #12
MediaWatch:
I think its not only an insult to Holocaust survivors but also an insult to the Germans who are providing the Holocaust survivor compensation.


I think it's the same like abusing a little, frail Oma and steal all her pension money...
But it's not the Germans who feel insulted!

If I remember correctly Germany reacted with increasing the funds after the scam was found out. I hope that now the thieves are jailed and the real victims get some help

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11940184
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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Edited by: delphiandomine  Mar 28, 11, 23:44    #13
wielki pan:
Just a drop in the ocean compared to what is at stake with the Jewish claims, I have no problem with handed back Jewish churches/cementeries back, buildings which has changed several times over is a bit over the top.


A drop in the ocean? I don't call 100m zloty plus for one building and one piece of land "a drop in the ocean".

wielki pan:
Mr D its time you take your blinkers off and do some research before talking so much rubbish.


Research? I already did plenty - the amount of money that the RCC has claimed from Poland over the last 20 years is staggering. I'm not surprised that the Jews want some of the action too.

Obviously though, it doesn't suit your agenda to admit that the Catholic Church has been rewarded handsomely in recent years. I mean, it's only Jews that are demanding ridiculously high amounts from the Polish State. Of course.

Tell you what - go away and tell me why the CBA are investigating many claims right now.
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Mar 28, 11, 23:56    #14
Bzibzioh:
I saw the $60 billion number in some article. The Polish government planned to pay percentage of that sum anyway (between 10 and 20% of the value) so maybe that the lower $21 to 23 billion is coming from.

This swindle has been going on for a long time. Who can forget Israel Singer:

In 1996, the Reuters news agency reported that at a meeting of the WJC congress in Buenos Aires, Singer said "[m]ore than three million Jews died in Poland and the Polish people are not going to be the heirs of the Polish Jews. We are never going to allow this.... They're gonna hear from us until Poland freezes over again. If Poland does not satisfy Jewish claims it will be publicly attacked and humiliated."[2

And here is note 2:

The matters related to compensation for Poles and Jews for damages suffered under Nazi and Soviet occupation.

Reuters Agency reported from Buenos Aires, Argentina on Fri, 19 Apr 1996 (14:50:17 PDT) on The World Jewish Congress.

Israel Singer, General Secretary of the World Jewish Congress stated that "More than three million Jews died in Poland and the Polish people are not going to be the heirs of the Polish Jews. We are never going to allow this. (...) They're gonna hear from us until Poland freezes over again. If Poland does not satisfy Jewish claims it will be "publicly attacked and humiliated" in the international forum.

Today some Jews are estimating the value of Jewish assets lost in Poland and vicinity in over 65 billions of dollars. Descendants of the Holocaust victims obviously could not hope to extract billions of dollars from descendants of the Polish gentile victims of war. Aware of these difficulties, some Jews have promoted a myth about Polish complicity in the Holocaust. Obviously it would be easier to extract money from descendants of the guilty rather than descendants of innocent co-victims whose property was also destroyed or eventually, in many cases, taken from them by the Soviet puppet government, especially during the first ten years of Soviet rule in Poland known as the years of terror by Jakub Berman and other Jews in Soviet terror apparatus.

http://zaprasza.net/a_y.php?mid=21357

And out goes Singer and in comes Bronfman:

Israel Singer fired from WJC for allegedly embezzling funds

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-singer-fired-from-wjc-for-allegedly -embezzling-funds-1.216275
BzibziohThreads: 6
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 Mar 28, 11, 23:56    #15
delphiandomine:
Obviously though, it doesn't suit your agenda to admit that the Catholic Church has been rewarded handsomely in recent years. I mean, it's only Jews that are demanding ridiculously high amounts from the Polish State. Of course.

Jews received their public property back already years ago. We are talking now about private property compensations and compensations for properties that were left without heirs. Try to keep up instead of using this opportunity to bash Catholic Church in Poland. Again.
PennBoyThreads: 157
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 Mar 29, 11, 00:20    #16
1jola:
Israel Singer, General Secretary of the World Jewish Congress stated that "More than three million Jews died in Poland and the Polish people are not going to be the heirs of the Polish Jews. We are never going to allow this.

I hope he chokes on a dreidel.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 29, 11, 00:29    #17
PennBoy:
I hope he chokes on a dreidel.


No need for that, we can just laugh at him for not having managed to achieve anything in 15 years.
NomadatNetThreads: 6
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 Mar 29, 11, 00:48    #18
20-30 billion euro is not really important for Jews actually. It is anti-semites Western media flaming things. Similar things happen here. Erdogan and his party are often anti-Israel. I don't care and half of people don't care. We know big portion of wealth are taken not by Israelities or by Jews, but, by his party people and his supporters. Here is not different than West, very big portion of the cake, 75% of wealth are owned by 5% of population here too, just like the West. Jews' words are only a waking up people about this very bad distribution of wealth everywhere, especially in the West. Why poor Poles complain? They have nothing to give anyway, let rich people there worry. If rich people share the wealth with me too, then, I'd defend my rights against Jews. Btw, this anti-Jew game is being played by Vatikan, Germany and especially by Britain. A careful analysis can show you it is British media like BBC flaming anti-Jewish things there and elsewheres.
wielki panThreads: 3
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 Mar 29, 11, 01:45    #19
delphiandomine:
Tell you what - go away and tell me why the CBA are investigating many claims right now



Investigating the Jewish claims... by the way are you Jewish Mr D
BBmanThreads: -
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Edited by: BBman  Mar 29, 11, 01:54    #20
Post some links, i'm interested in reading about this, D.
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Mar 29, 11, 07:58    #21
BBman:
Post some links, i'm interested in reading about this, D.

So you don't like the subject of Jewish organization trying to fleece Poland, and that is why you would be happy to help Delphio derail this thread . Why is that?
I see that you speak Polish and you are asking Dephio, who is just learning, to link you to info you can easily find yourself. Why don't you two take this to OFF-Topic lounge or start your own thread.
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Mar 29, 11, 09:46    #22
Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski has accused the United States of failing to help the Jews during the Holocaust, in a fiery response to US criticism of the Polish government’s decision to shelve plans to compensate Jews who had their property confiscated under communism.


“If the United States wanted to do something for Polish Jews, a good moment was 1943-44, when the majority of them were still alive, and Poland was pleading for help through Jan Karski. Now this intervention is late,” said the minister

http://www.newpolandexpress.pl/polish_news_story-2950-us_blasted_over_ jewish_treatment.php
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 29, 11, 11:03    #23
wielki pan:
Investigating the Jewish claims... by the way are you Jewish Mr D


No, not Jewish claims, but rather claims made by the Catholic Church. But you know - much easier to blame others!

BBman:
Post some links, i'm interested in reading about this, D.


I can link you to the two that I know most about - the case of the high school in Poznan, along with the land by Lake Malta.

http://poznan.gazeta.pl/poznan/1,36003,9016579,Kuria_chce_przeniesc_sz koly_katolickie_do_VIII_LO.html

http://www.se.pl/wydarzenia/kraj/parafia-z-poznania-75-milionow-z-za-g rabiez-w-prl-u_167235.html

It'll give you the general idea.
nottThreads: 6
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 Mar 29, 11, 11:20    #24
delphiandomine:
along with the land by Lake Malta.


From the middle of the article:

Przeczytaj koniecznie: Warmińsko-mazurskie: Ksiądz z parafii pod Gietrzwałdem uwodzi mężczyzn parafianek

Obviously, this information is crucial to understanding the issue at hand. Congrats on your choice of sources, delph.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 29, 11, 11:32    #25
nott:
Congrats on your choice of sources, delph.


I'm sure it's not hard for you to find a better source.

Now, given these two cases alone, let alone the numerous other cases (shall we talk about how the Church obtained some decent land in Krakow, then sold it for a huge profit almost straight away?) - who is stealing from Poland?
1jolaThreads: 33
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 Mar 29, 11, 12:52    #26
Every time there is any discussion of Jews, you Jews want to talk about the RCC.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 29, 11, 14:40    #27
1jola:
Every time there is any discussion of Jews, you Jews want to talk about the RCC.


Only one problem, none of us are Jewish. :)

I mean, I can't imagine many Jews willingly wanting to live in Poland...
vetalaThreads: -
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 Mar 29, 11, 16:26    #28
delphiandomine:
I mean, I can't imagine many Jews willingly wanting to live in Poland...

I know a few.
nottThreads: 6
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 Mar 29, 11, 18:04    #29
delphiandomine:
Now, given these two cases alone, let alone the numerous other cases (shall we talk about how the Church obtained some decent land in Krakow, then sold it for a huge profit almost straight away?) - who is stealing from Poland?


Stealing? RCC is reclaiming property robbed by the commies, you call it stealing? Likewise Jews can and do reclaim their property, see Kazimierz. Thing is, though, that those claims have to be in accordance with Polish law, Poland being an independent, sovereign country now. AFAIK there was a cut-out date of claiming lost property by heir of deceased owners, Jews or now Jews. Use your rights, you get what is yours. Poland, however, has no obligations to foreign citizens who happen to be of the same ethnicity as those who died without heirs. By law, this property belongs to the state, whether it was Jewish or not, and not to some ethnic organisation in New York. This is not a racist country, no specific laws for ethnically selected groups of people, the only valid criterion is 'Polish citizen', and his heirs.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
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 Mar 29, 11, 18:27    #30
vetala:
I know a few.


Really? Can you send some my way? I don't know any :(

nott:
Stealing? RCC is reclaiming property robbed by the commies, you call it stealing?


I call it stealing when they're taking property away from the public good (see the school for instance) or when they're claiming massive amounts of money *as well* as the property - see Lake Malta.

nott:
Likewise Jews can and do reclaim their property, see Kazimierz. Thing is, though, that those claims have to be in accordance with Polish law, Poland being an independent, sovereign country now. AFAIK there was a cut-out date of claiming lost property by heir of deceased owners, Jews or now Jews. Use your rights, you get what is yours. Poland, however, has no obligations to foreign citizens who happen to be of the same ethnicity as those who died without heirs. By law, this property belongs to the state, whether it was Jewish or not, and not to some ethnic organisation in New York. This is not a racist country, no specific laws for ethnically selected groups of people, the only valid criterion is 'Polish citizen', and his heirs.


Wow. You actually said it unemotionally and rationally.

You're right. I totally support Poland telling the Jews to get lost - there's no money to pay this, and we shouldn't be pandering to the interests of anyone, religious group or otherwise. The whole property issue is a complete mess in Poland :(


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