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Polish Lithuanian Diplomatic War? At last.

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posts: 399

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Nov 7, 10, 11:39 #361

hague1cmaeron:

Acknowledge that the problems of Poles in Lithuania while real and irritating are minor. Fundamental rights of Poles are upheld. They vote, have a political party, have newspapers, are not discriminated at workplaces and in higher education, have numerous schools.

nobody in polish government give a damn about it, so yes, officially the problem of Poles in Lithuania are very minor - check !

hague1cmaeron:

Get rid of sentimentality in politics. Lithuanians are not your brothers and sisters from the time of the Commonwealth. Treat them just like you would anybody else. What they seem to resent the most is what they perceive as your patronizing attitude. They don't want to be your brothers and sisters period

what sentiments? They are a small fry and they do not honor their obligations!
check

hague1cmaeron:

Get rid of Orlen Lietuva. It was a mistake t

yeah ! lets the Russians have it, Lithueania is a big tit, now!
to be done!

hague1cmaeron:

Treat the rights of Poles in Lithuania as human rights issues, not as Polish tribal issues.

no matter how you treat it, there is a very real issue of human right abuse - who says something different ? Harry and delpi ?phew!
check!

PolishTraitorThreads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Nov 5, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 7, 10, 11:48 #362
Ironside: no matter how you treat it, there is a very real issue of human right abuse So you agree that Poland is abusing the human rights of tens of thousands of people in Warsaw alone by not letting them use their language for writing their names? Interesting.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 7, 10, 11:57 #363
PolishTraitor: Interesting. people should have the right to write they name in the way they like it, if they have a problems because of it, thats their problem and choice! You Harry simply should discus the topic, not constantly deflecting it, if something bugs you so much, make a thread about it, but no, pathetic !

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Nov 7, 10, 12:08 #364

Ironside:

people should have the right to write they name in the way they like it, if they have a problems because of it, thats their problem and choice!

Tens of thousands of people in Poland are denied that right.

Ironside:

You Harry simply should discus the topic, not constantly deflecting it, if something bugs you so much, make a thread about it, but no, pathetic !

The actions of Poland with regard to some of its minorities are the same as the actions of Lithuania towards Poles in Lithuania. Perhaps people might be less likely to view Poland's stance as hypocritical if Poland gave minorities in Poland the same rights as it wants to insist Poles have in other countries?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 7, 10, 12:53 #365
PolishTraitor: as hypocritical if Poland gave minorities in Poland the same rights as it wants to insist Poles have in other countries Did you read the thread posts ? Poland give minorities the same rights, and definitely gives the said right to Lithuanian minority in Poland! So, what your point ? Guess you have no point !

PolishTraitorThreads: 1 Posts: 42 Joined: Nov 5, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 7, 10, 13:08 #366
Ironside: Poland give minorities the same rights Some minorities. The tens of thousands of Vietnamese in Warsaw are not allowed to use Chữ Quốc Ngữ when writing their tiếng Việt names: they are forced to use only the Polish alphabet. Ironside: So, what your point ? Poland should put its own house in order before attempting to tell others what to do.

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Nov 7, 10, 13:23 #367

PolishTraitor:

Some minorities. The tens of thousands of Vietnamese in Warsaw are not allowed to use Chữ Quốc Ngữ when writing their tiếng Việt names: they are forced to u

they are not minorities, they are immigrants, and yes let them write their names as they want - its their problem !However is a very small issue and off topic !
Lithuanian minority in Poland have said rights and the same rights should be granted to Polish minority in Lithuania - simple, and that way its works !

PolishTraitor:

Poland should put its own house in order before attempting to tell others what to do.

As a general rule it could be applied to every country or individual!
However, in the case presented above the issue and solution is simple, either follow the reciprocity right and EU regulation or await the punishment !

I guess that every issue or subject discussed on PF you intensionally deflecting into discussion about Poland faults ! Wait - hijacking the thread - against the rules :)

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Nov 7, 10, 13:31 #368

Ironside:

they are not minorities[quote]
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that to you yellow people aren't actually humans and so they do not have human rights. Pity for you that ten of thousands of these people qualify for Polish citizenship. What excuse is Poland going to use for refusing to allow its own citizens to write their names in their own language?

[quote=Ironside]However, in the case presented above the issue and solution is simple, either follow the reciprocity right and EU regulation or await the punishment !

Much as Poland will do for refusing to allow British and Irish citizens exercise their EU rights.

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Nov 7, 10, 18:58 #369

Torq:

If one prefers to use Polish instead, then
he should know that "Polacy" is the proper plural form of the word "Polak."

I am totally against creating such linguistic monsters as "Polaks" as it is butchering both
languages: Polish AND English.

Agree and sorry - it was just a bit easier to spell in this way for me, anyway, i didn't learn english and i should learn the language first and only then to sign up here ;) . I mean, there could be more such or similar mistakes in my posts - sorry, ... and you know, my peasant blood and such... :D. What else one could expect from me :D .
I'm bored with this all, so i don't argue about anything, just want to give a link, in case one would like to read some opinion of some lithuanian polish (or polish lithuanian?) person (a text is in polish and i think it doesn't exist in english) -http://drauge.org/pogon/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2 75:list-do-prezydenta-rp-bronislawa-komorowskiego-&catid=38:aktualnosc i&Itemid=27
The text was written some time ago, so if you have read it already - just ignore it :) .

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Nov 7, 10, 19:11 #370

Litwinus:

Agree and sorry

No problem. We, Poles, are kind-hearted people - we don't bear grudges for a long time
(unless someone doesn't invite us to a victory parade, but that's another.)

Litwinus:

you know, my peasant blood and such... :D. What else one could expect from me :D

Oh, come on - don't be so harsh on yourself. You are the elite of your nation - crême de la
crême (or cremas de la cremas - using Lithuanian spelling ;))

Litwinus:

http://drauge.org/pogon/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id= 2 75:list-do-prezydenta-rp-bronislawa-komorowskiego-&catid=38:aktualnosc i&Itemid=27

Interesting article...

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 7, 10, 20:34 #371
Torq: we don't bear grudges for a long time some do and some don't

enderThreads: 13 Posts: 528 Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂	Nov 7, 10, 20:53 #372
I would belive Mr Ryszard Maceikianec letter http://drauge.org/pogon/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2 75:list-do-prezydenta-rp-bronislawa-komorowskiego-&catid=38:aktualnosc i&Itemid=27 but not after watching this so called conference and reading post from this page: http://kurierwilenski.lt/

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Edited by: Crow Nov 27, 10, 01:55 #373

Merged thread:
Lithuania’s Polish minority banned from using native language

an article

Lithuania’s Polish minority banned from using native language
26 November, 2010, 09:51
http://rt.com/news/lithuania-polish-minority-language/

Poles in Lithuania say they are being persecuted for using their native language to spell Polish street names and even surnames. But authorities in Vilnius insist they are simply upholding the law.

Almost a quarter of a million ethnic Poles live in Lithuania. Warsaw ruled the land for centuries. So nowadays in some villages the Polish amount to over 80 per cent of the population.

Shop owner Galina Tomazsevska decided to make life easier for the Poles living in rural Lithuania.

She put signs in both Lithuanian and Polish languages in her store. But then authorities said she would be fined 200 euros for violating the state language law.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 27, 10, 12:27 #374
Kill all Lithuanians.

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Edited by: Crow Nov 27, 10, 13:39 #375

Lithuania’s Polish minority banned from using native language

i don`t know what is these days with Lithuania but i am sure that it must be that spirit of germanization which terrorize region. Anti Poliosh feelings coming from the above, from some official circles.

Back in time (during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) Serbians (Racowie) were there in Lithuania to fight for golden freedom of Lithuanians and Poles, for the glory of Sarmatia. Serbs still have some influence here and Serbs should mediate in every Polish-Lithuanian misunderstanding.

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Edited by: gumishu Nov 27, 10, 13:42 #376

PolishTraitor:

Tens of thousands of people in Poland are denied that right.

well I would presume it is because of the technical problem - the machinery used to produce Polish ID's (dowód osobisty and perhaps prawo jazdy) is probably designed to use Polish sings only
I think it is pretty similar in England - they don't have any diacritic signs in their alphabet- do you think they use all those special letters from around the world issueing their documents
(well perhaps it has changed in recent times and i mean very recent)

there are some obvious obstacles for introducing the multi-language set of letters for use in Polish documents - I don't mean the Vietnamese set of letters cause I have little knowledge of it here - but look at various others - look at those c's, s's and t's with cedilles -as in Romanian or Turkish language - look at umlauts of German, Scandinavian and Hungarian or those these all present a problem for Polish people to know how to read them or even are difficult to pronounce for a Polish person - and it is not the Polish people in general but authorities like say police or branches of various administrations that would mostly be presented with the problem - are they able to cope with that yet?

do you think this problem is solved in most European countries - I am not that sure - but perhaps you are better informed than me so I very much await your insights

this all is not to say we don't need to eventually introduce the multi-language sings use in all documents issued in Poland - we will have to live with that - this world is getting more and more multicultural after all

but then again even after all this there is still a question of those non-Latin writing systems - it is pretty obvious we need to transcribe these - there are several traditional Polish transcryption set of rules for foreign non-latin alphabets (or rather languages) - like traditional Polish transcryption of Russian, Ukrainian, Belorusian and perhaps Serbian and Bulgarian (not sure about these latter) - perhaps we need to abandon them and use European-wide system based say on the English transcryption - but some compromise solutions can be found I guess - like say English transcryption for other than Slavic languages -
one can also imagine a mode of issuing documents in traditional national (Polish in case of Poland) transcryption of non-Latin alphabets(or even other writing systems) augmented with the use of the non-Latin script as used by the person in question to denote the personal data (say just the names) to make them more universal

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 27, 10, 15:18 #377
Sokrates: Kill all Lithuanians. stupid statements from stupid people

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 27, 10, 22:30 #378
People like Sokrates see history from one side. He is likely fuming that the Lithuanian govt require Poles to use Lithuanian versions of their names. The history is far from easy and sometimes things like that happen. Poles have done well from Lithuania. Just think Słowacki, Mickiewicz and Piłsudski :) :)

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Nov 27, 10, 22:49 #379
I don't think he meant it Seanus some people have a peculiar sense of humour ;)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 27, 10, 22:56 #380
Oh, for sure. However, we have to interpret what is written for what it is and he didn't even add a wink mark. If I were a Lithuanian, I wouldn't be best pleased. It adds fuel to the fire. Poles and Lithuanians really aren't so different on a global scale. No need for any war.

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Nov 27, 10, 23:26 #381

gumishu:

I think it is pretty similar in England - they don't have any diacritic signs in their alphabet- do you think they use all those special letters from around the world issueing their documents (well perhaps it has changed in recent times and i mean very recent)

No, they don't. They'll use the standard English alphabet, and as far as I know, even Welsh/Scots Gaelic/Irish diatrical marks aren't recognised in official documents. I could be wrong, but I've never seen an example of it.

The thing I don't understand - wouldn't it be easiest for Poland to simply issue the Lithuanian Poles with Polish passports?

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Edited by: Sokrates Nov 27, 10, 23:40 #382

Seanus:

People like Sokrates see history from one side. He is likely fuming that the Lithuanian govt require Poles to use Lithuanian versions of their names.

Heck no i just want a new PC and can't afford one at the moment, if we kill all Lithuanians there's bound to be some spare computers.

You really take everyone seriously all the time dont you Sean?

Anyway Lithuanians are asking for trouble, i can understand their fears because they fear Poland and all things polish like f*cking black pox but its time to move on, either they want a friendly neighbour or we really do start a diplomatic war, last time they tried it it didnt end well for them.

We dont want Wilno we're just asking they treat our people the same as we treat theirs, with respect.

Seanus:

If I were a Lithuanian, I wouldn't be best pleased.

If you were a Lithuanian i'd murder you on the spot, thats what we do.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 27, 10, 23:42 #383
Sokrates: We dont want Wilno we're just asking they treat our people the same as we treat theirs, with respect. Out of interest, did Poland ever sign an agreement with Lithuania confirming the borders as permanent, like Poland diid with Germany?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 28, 10, 00:13 #384
delphiandomine: Out of interest, did Poland ever sign an agreement with Lithuania confirming the borders as permanent, like Poland diid with Germany? Yep in 1991.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 28, 10, 11:38 #385
I figured you were joking but it's good to have confirmation of that. I often use winks and am not that serious on the forum. Oh, come on, murders and general killings are part of the fabric of history amongst Baltic/former CIS states and Poland. I just don't see why we don't look for commonalities. The Koreas are making the same mistake now, letting bullying forces stymie their drive for peace.

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Dec 9, 10, 19:16 #386

Poles least likeable, say Lithuanians
09.12.2010 09:51
Poles are the least friendly of all of Lithuania’s neighbours, say participants in a new online opinion poll.
According to the survey conducted by Lithuanian web site Delfi.lt, 63 percent of Lithuanians think Latvians are the most likeable nation, as they also belong to the Baltic states and are similar to Lithuanians when it comes to looks, mentality and economic development.
As many as 13.4 percent of Lithuanians think that Russians are the most friendly neighbours and 8.8 percent have a similar opinion about Belarusians.
Only 8.5 percent of the respondents chose Poles as the most likeable nation.
“Lithuanians and Latvians have a lot in common but I decided to vote for Poles because we are bound by history and culture and Poland is a window to the world for us,” wrote one of the favourable respondents.
The poll reflects growing tension between Poland and Lithuania, with conflicts over the use of the Polish language by Poland’s ethnic minority in the country and the Polish-owned Mazeikiai oil refinery.
Poland’s Foreign Ministry described relations between the two neighbours recently as having reached an “all time low”.
As many as 1627 Lithuanians participated in the poll.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Dec 9, 10, 19:38 #387

pawian:

Poles least likeable, say Lithuanians

Well, breaks my fecken heart. *rolls eyes*

pawian:

conflicts over the use of the Polish language by Poland’s ethnic minority

Ultimatum. That's what we need to finally solve the situation (something like: "quit being
bloody nazi troglodytes in the XXI century and stop persecuting our minority, or else...")

pawian:

and the Polish-owned Mazeikiai oil refinery

Is that a problem for them? Sell it to Russians then. One trouble less for Poland.

enderThreads: 13 Posts: 528 Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂	Dec 13, 10, 04:52 #388
Looks like some Poles are really unhappy with Lithuania.

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Sep 5, 11, 23:15 #389

There was a very interesting Irish language program on the BBC last night called Smuigleiri Leabhar (Book smugglers) telling the story of attempts to keep the Lithuanian language alive in the face of Russification. It made for some uncomfortable but very interesting viewing however throughout the film I had an uncomfortable feeling. A Lithuanian nationalist was lecturing an Irish speaker that he wasn’t Irish cos he sometimes spoke English, making a case for the removal of Identity through cultural imperialism yet ignoring Lithuanian language policy towards Polish speakers.

The whole film can be found on the BBC's iplayer type Smuigleiri Leabhar to find it.

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Sep 10, 11, 14:31 #390

A Lithuanian nationalist was lecturing an Irish speaker that he wasn’t Irish cos he sometimes spoke English

Exactly, Americans can speak English and still be Americans, Swiss can speak German, Italian and French and it doesn't make them Spanish :)
Yet, one have to speak Lithuanian to be Lithuanian, what that says about their cultural identity, that there is no much more to built upon than the language, an artificial division.
What does it say about attempts to reduce Polish language in Polish Schools in Lithuania? In the light of above it means offensive move to by administrative means change children's national identity.

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