Polish opinion in regards to recognizing Palestine as a state and UN membership

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Sep 19, 11, 11:13 #1

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2011/September/15%20n/Palestinian%20Bi d%20for%20UN%20Full%20Membership%20to%20Be%20Submitted%20by%20Abbas%20 on%20September%2023,%202011.htm

Many countries will be voting this week when Palestine will ask for full UN membership for a Palestinian state.
Israel has threatened that there will be "harsh and grave" consequences should this happen.
The United States wants Palestine to drop their plan to declare an independent state.
The US will most probably veto to block the Palestinian bid.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/199513.html

U.N. officials and other reports indicate that Germany, the Netherlands, Poland and the Czech Republic are among those considering abstaining or opposing the proposal, while France, Spain, Britain and Portugal are said to be leaning in favor of it.

"The U.S. is definitely putting a full court press on a lot of these countries," said Zvika Krieger, who is the senior vice president of The S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace and who consults regularly with administration officials on Israel.

What does everyone here think?
What are you opinions?
Will Poland agree, oppose, or abstain the proposal?
What about the other countries?
Should Palestine be recognized as a full UN member state?

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Sep 19, 11, 11:38 #2

Personally I feel Poland should recognize Palestine.
USA has been sending representatives to different countries so that they do not vote for Palestine
because it will hurt and isolate Israel (OH WHAT A TRAGEDY).
USA being the prozionist nation it is will do anything Israel, AIPAC, AJC will say. They are hopeless.

I was thinking that countries like USA, Canada, Britain and France would vote against it because they are prozionist morons too.
I didnt know what to think when it came to Polands decision on this matter.
The above article scared me. What has Poland got to lose on this matter? Will a few Jewish zionists and a bunch of delusional Americans think less of Poland?

In general most countries will vote for Palestine. So why not USA? Other western countries?
What do they have to lose? Money?
Surely the countries that accept Palestine have a bit of common sense in them.

MyMomThreads: 9 Posts: 185 Joined: Aug 13, 11 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 11:49 #3
Will Poland agree, oppose, or abstain the proposal? Poland - that is Polish polititians - will certainly oppose the recognition of Palestine. Polish polititian's unconditional love for Israel is puzzling, especially given the fact that it is not reciprocated.

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Edited by: modafinil Sep 19, 11, 12:00 #4
I read in a UK newspaper (Guardian - Left wing, liberal broadsheet) possibly a year ago an editorial that their is active lobbying by Poland to recognise Palestinians, connecting the plight of Palestinians with 1980s Solidarnosc.

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Sep 19, 11, 12:29 #5

Poland - that is Polish polititians - will certainly oppose the recognition of Palestine.
Polish polititian's unconditional love for Israel is puzzling, especially given the fact that it is not reciprocated.

Yes I should have made that more clear.
You are actually right in Europe just about every country (the people) want Palestine recognized.
However because democracy is not real the politicians will vote for who they please and who gives them the bigger paycheck.
Its just absolute nonsense.

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Edited by: jwojcie Sep 19, 11, 13:37 #6

AFAIK Poland has been recognizing the state of Palestine since 1988 already... Of course this decision was made in soviet times, but I think it is still valid. Btw, Poland till today has have foreign relations with Palestine. In spite of the fact that current relationships with USA and to some extent Israel are more important than relationships with Palestine and Arab League, those two countries cann't expect Poland to be against recognition. But we will see...:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of _Palestine

LwowskaKrakowThreads: 49 Posts: 504 Joined: Mar 9, 07 MEMBER ♀	Sep 19, 11, 15:52 #7
I have the impression that politically Poland tends to follow the US so if the US recognizes Palestine then Poland will too. What we want is the Palestine-Israel war to end.

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Sep 19, 11, 15:56 #8

I was thinking that countries like USA, Canada, Britain and France would vote against it because they are prozionist morons too.

Well you were ,once again(its a habit with you) completly wrong on that one wernt you .......seeing as its even in the bit you cut and pasted....

while France, Spain, Britain and Portugal are said to be leaning in favor of it.

The netherlands surprises me ,but the others have been fighting to be USAs l'il b!tch for years now.

KingAthelstanThreads: 14 Posts: 225 Joined: Sep 13, 11 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 16:00 #9
what about Tibet? Nobody will ever dare bring a vote forward about the Tibetans right to independence. Violent terrorists tend to get noticed more.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 16:10 #10
What would be the point, Red China has a veto in the UN just the same as the USA.........after 70 odd years its about time that the UN was reshuffled a bit....UK,France,China,USA and Russia telling the rest of the world what it can and cannot do is so mid 20th century....:(

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Sep 19, 11, 16:20 #11

PO are full of Jewish sympathisers so expect no recognition to be given to Palestine. It cannot happen as it's Israel's policy to cut further into Palestinian territory. Israel has already breached the ICJ 2004 verdict on multiple occasions and is committing atrocities now. The radicals will never be pacified by a new state as they believe the whole area is Palestinian Arab land and hardline Jewish settlers believe the whole land is theirs. A compromise sounds all well and good but why do you think the talks have failed so far? Poland will either be pro-Israel as a chance to show that time has healed ties or abstain.

Sth of this magnitude HAS TO BE put out to referendums across the world. Handing the decision to politicians is worthless for a very simple reason. Rothschild and Co will know what they have done and will make their lives hell.

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Edited by: KingAthelstan Sep 19, 11, 16:23 #12

Tibet gets about 2% of the media coverage the Palestinians get, yet the Chinese occupied them 60 years ago destroyed 6,000 monestries killed 100,000s of Tibetan dissidents. They are not even aloud to speak Tibetan in school.

The Tibetans go about there freedom struggle peacefully and we don't seem to care that much, the Palestinians go about theirs in the most violent barbaric manner and we fawn at them as if they are little innocent children.

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Sep 19, 11, 16:25 #13

KA, most Palestinians are placid and even their militant wings have exercised restraint in recent times. I'd love to see how you would act when locked into a virtual prison and then denied freedom of movement on your own land. Would you like that? They've been massacred on different occasions. Remember how the US react to massacres (staged ones, LOL)?? They don't take too kindly to it but if it's Israel, all is ok.

hythornThreads: 6 Posts: 843 Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 16:37 #14
most Palestinians are placid and even their militant wings have exercised restraint in recent times If they were not the Israelis would just send the tanks in. I appreciate that the Jews have had a very hard time of it over the last thousand years or so and their tenacity is legendary however it does not give them carte blanche

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Sep 19, 11, 16:54 #15

perhaps you call firing rockets at kinder gardens, and blowing up civlllians placid. not so I.

I couldn't care less about those violent brutish Arabs, nor could I care less about the Israelis.

Israel acts with far more restraint than Hamas it does not deliberately target civilians, Hamas celebrates when israelis are murdered.

Hamas rears it's children in a culture that glorifies violence, you want to support these people?

[youtube=ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIkrQGz5ats

I am not actually support Israel, but I just belive they get a dissportionate amont coveagre and am sick of people obbsessing over the Israeli-palestian conflict.
What Turkey does to the Kurds is as bad if not worse, yet it gets a fraction of the coverage. What Russia does in dagestan and chenya is just as bad, (the war in congo and darfur is 3000 times worse, yet nodoby really gives a **** about some angry afircan with a machete and ak 47 going on a brutal rampage do they?) nodoby gives to hoots about the massacare that happned in sri lanka 2 years ago.

somehow the Palestines have attained the status of cause celebre of the Left, every Palestine killed is worth 1000 Darfuri lives in western media coverage.

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Edited by: joepilsudski Sep 19, 11, 17:15 #16

Poland - that is Polish polititians - will certainly oppose the recognition of Palestine.
Polish polititian's unconditional love for Israel is puzzling, especially given the fact that it is not reciprocated.

Yes, it is a bit of a puzzle...In the USA, Jews run the media, control Congress, and even the Presidency, via the leverage of money and blackmail...Of course, many US leaders are simply cowards, letting a tiny minority faction use them for wars and financial swindles....Our President, Obama, is controlled by the Jews lock, stock & barrel.

In Poland, I would say that Auschwitz is used as a tool to blackmail the Polish government and people, and perhaps money too, although the Jewish money power is seemingly more undercover in Poland.

The Jewish mafia/Mossad, whatever you may call it, is certainly willing to kill 'goyim' and there is a real danger to some compromised politicos who buck the Israelis.

However, history is on the side of the Palestinians, and the days of 'Jews only' rule in the Holy Land may be nearing an end...Whether the end is a reasonable and peaceful one, or a bloody one remains to be seen.

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Sep 19, 11, 17:37 #17

BTW, I have relationships with both Jews and Palestinians...In the case of Jews, they are mostly old friends, and I was married to a Jewish woman and have had many Jewish girlfriends.

As far as Palestinians, there are many Palestinians who run businesses in my city, and I have aquaintances with a number of them

For instance, I know a Palestinian who owns a pizza shop near where I work...He was born in Jerusalem, and recently went back home to visit...He had to fly to Amman, Jordan, take a bus to the Israeli border, then take a number of taxis and go through numerous checkpoints in order to get to the city of his birth...Palestinians are not allowed to fly El Al to Tel Aviv and then take a simple 1 hour bus ride to Jerusalem, or have a relative pick the up...This simple privilege is for Jews only.

The simple fact is that most Palestinians do not hate Jews, but Jews are taught to hate Arabs, and make it nigh impossible to make a living or survive financially in the land where they grew up...This is a crime against humanity...Israel also has no constitution or set borders, which is a complete anomaly in the 'civilized' world.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 17:40 #18
The simple fact is that most Palestinians do not hate Jews, But e.g. many Arab countries will not do business with any country who supplies products, any component of which comes from Israel. I'd call that a pretty institutionalised anti Jewish stance.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Sep 19, 11, 17:42 #19
What are you asking about OP? What Poland's government will do it in that hypothetical situation or what we think it should or maybe what would be a right thing to do or rather what would appropriate course of action for Poland in my opinion ?

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Sep 19, 11, 18:18 #20

But e.g. many Arab countries will not do business with any country who supplies products, any component of which comes from Israel.

I'd call that a pretty institutionalised anti Jewish stance.

What self-respecting Arab country would trade with a country that has waged economic, psychological, and physical warfare against it's Arab minority for 50 years?

But many do: Egypt sells Israel natural gas and oil, several Gulf States like Oman, Qatar & UAE do at least indirect trade with the Israelis, as does Morocco.

Iraq supplies Israel with oil: whether this trade is coerced, I cannot say.

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Sep 19, 11, 19:16 #21

What self-respecting Arab country would trade with a country that has waged economic, psychological, and physical warfare against it's Arab minority for 50 years?

I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seemed that your tone was heading a little bit to much towards the innocent palestinians v the evil jews. I'm partly just playing the devils advocate too.

FWIW I'm not a fan of that part of the world in any shape or form, no matter what their background.

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Sep 19, 11, 19:26 #22

I'm not disagreeing with you. It just seemed that your tone was heading a little bit to much towards the innocent palestinians v the evil jews. I'm partly just playing the devils advocate too.

FWIW I'm not a fan of that part of the world in any shape or form, no matter what their background.

I understand...I think the problems there can be addressed reasonably, as I think most of the normal people there just want to live their lives in a reasonable manner...The Arabs and the Jews are natural business partners and Palestine/Israel could be an economic powerhouse in time if clear thinking heads prevailed.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Sep 19, 11, 19:33 #23
It should definitely NOT be recognized. Just leave it the way it is now.

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Sep 20, 11, 00:32 #24

It should definitely NOT be recognized. Just leave it the way it is now.

It is recognised,thats what you miss out on,the entire world apart from israel and US wants a palastinian state.
But, frankly , Israel with its puppet master status over US politics ,gets away time and again with breaking UN charters and resolutions and targets civilian areas with air strikes and heavy artillary,encloses Bethlehem (FFS) within ghetto walls and expands eastward with( ,whats the yiddish for lebansraum?,) building "settlements" on stolen land,all tacitly endorsed by good ole freedom lovin US of A......

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 20, 11, 00:37 #25
It should definitely NOT be recognized. Just leave it the way it is now. This is a disgusting thing for a Pole, plastic or otherwise, to say. The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have even less political rights then Poles did when they were under foriegn occupation after the partitions.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Sep 20, 11, 00:47 #26
Do you really think it's good to go to war over? I don't. The whole world doesn't care one way or the other. I am speaking from an American point of view. A bunch of terrorists ain't worth going to war over.

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Edited by: isthatu2 Sep 20, 11, 00:54 #27

WTF? Who said "go to war"????
Is that how badly american politics have been redacted these days? Its either be best mates or invade the bastards?????
Who would "you" go to war against?
The country who has broken more UN laws than any other and cuts off water and electricity and medical aid to the people who's land it has stolen?
Or the " Dirty muslim arab terrorists"................thats so sad if you are the voice of middle america on this.
No war is needed, all USA has to do is say, " Hey, Tel Aviv, stop being nasty bastards, give back the stolen post 67 land or we cut off military aid and you are on your own". Seemples.

You do realise that ,as an American, your founding fathers were " a bunch of terrorists" dont you? They fought against what they saw as an occupation of "their" land ,with far less right on their side (as it was the injuns..) than the arabs in the occupied lands have ,yet "your" terroists are heroic freedom fighters...they are just, Dirty ,evil ,mindless terrrisstss"...again, sad. :(

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 20, 11, 01:06 #28
A bunch of terrorists Thats probably what Poles with their uprisings against foreign rule in the 19th Century would've been called by the powers that be if they'd ocurred more recently. Plastic Pole, your indifference to the suffering of the Palestinian people is sad.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 20, 11, 01:49 #29
=legend]Should Palestine be recognized as a full UN member state? Yes. Unconditionally. Or with one small condition - they should give up their long cherished desire to destroy Israel.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 20, 11, 01:53 #30
Or with one small condition - they should give up their long cherished desire to destroy Israel. What does that mean Pawain? Do you know for a fact that every Palestinian wants to destroy the Zionist entity? Is insisting on the right of return for Palestinian refugees part of the desire to "destroy Israel"?

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