Polish Parliament elections in October 2011

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jul 8, 11, 22:26 #61

@pgtx: that's reasonable, isn't it? I mean, providing a link is evidence that you're not making stuff up. Translating or providing an English synopsis of a Polish-language link is just fine.

The alternative is, that you enforce a situation where the only 'authoritative' quotations on Poland etc. that are allowed to be posted here are in, erm, English.

@pgtx: this is not a personal dig. I just think that the rule book which you are working to (and I commend the fact that, in the name of fairness to all, you are taking a hard line on it) needs a little qualification here.

From our side: just to help the mods do their job, @boletus - perhaps we can make it a bit more explicit somehow that the English is in fact a translation or synopsis of the link? ie,

the article:

blah

rather than just

blah

?

I try to do that - but don't always remember. Probably makes it clearer for the average reader, too.

Back to topic: PiS going down? Man, my heart just bleeds.

boletusThreads: 47 Posts: 1,095 Joined: Apr 13, 11 ♂	Jul 8, 11, 22:53 #62
alexw68: I try to do that - but don't always remember. Probably makes it clearer for the average reader, too. I often insert "translated from (...link follows)", but this time I forgot about it. Your suggestion of using qualified quotes is a good one.

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Jul 9, 11, 11:27 #63

boletus:

According to Tomasz Lis, the speech of Zbigniew Ziobro in European Parliament is nothing more but a power struggle in PiS. The former minister of justice is not alone in the war against Chairman Kaczynski. - From what I heard, Kurski i Ziobro deliberated quite loudly on the plane to Brussels. And at one point more than loudly.

Seems to me that we're finally seeing the civil war within PiS that I predicted would happen - they're facing electoral disaster (after this year, there's no elections of any sort until 2014 - I think?) - and a defeat now will condemn them to a long 3 years in opposition. I'm just surprised that it's taken so long for them to move - perhaps, as I said before - they've been deliberately manipulating Jarek into destroying his credibility in order to seize control of the party after the election.

In a sense, electoral humiliation here will be the best thing for PiS and Poland - they'll get rid of Kaczynski, they'll come back in 2014/2015 with a brand new strategy that will appeal to the voters - and Kaczynski will either retire or become the head of a fringe loony party that no-one cares about. His time has gone, definitely.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jul 21, 11, 17:07 #64
PiS started hanging their election posters. Prime Minister Kaczyński Jesus! People, I deplore you, go to elections and stop that maniac from becoming a Prime Minister. It is true that Poland survived a lot: partitions, wars, occupations. But do we really need another disaster? All hands on the deck!!

rybnikThreads: 29 Posts: 1,232 Joined: Jan 16, 11 ♂	Jul 21, 11, 23:59 #65
Help a brother out. What are those ladies (in berets) supposed to signify again?

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Jul 22, 11, 00:02 #66
rybnik What are those ladies (in berets) supposed to signify again? Beret Commando, the most dangerous squad in Poland. It roughly reads: They will surely go to elections. Vote so that they don`t overvote you.

rybnikThreads: 29 Posts: 1,232 Joined: Jan 16, 11 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 02:52 #67
pawian: Beret Commando, the most dangerous squad in Poland. by what moniker are they referred to po polsku? are they also the Radio Maryja crowd?

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Jul 22, 11, 03:04 #68

rybnik:

What are those ladies (in berets) supposed to signify again?

it is some random picture, they suggest that RM Rydzyk and some unknown but older ladies is one bunch of primitive (religious and patriotic )loonies and are in liege (for left-overs and fools everybody who is not with them is against them and all are united - conspiracy theory ).
Divide and Win ...
no understanding of civic and demarcating rules.

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 03:24 #69
Everyone should post their election night predictions, whoever wins should get some sort of recognition. PO: 45% PIS: 28% SLD:14% PSL: 6%

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Edited by: delphiandomine Jul 22, 11, 03:35 #70

hague1cmaeron:

Everyone should post their election night predictions, whoever wins should get some sort of recognition.

Oooo, I like.

It's going to be hard to call, but this is my gut feeling :

PO : 41% (not a great result, and actually down very slightly from last time, but enough)
PiS : 30% (slight drop from 2007, but enough to put Kaczynski into retirement)
SLD : 19% (not a great night, but about as much as they could hope for)
PSL : 10% (usual better-than-expected performance)

PiS certainly won't win - the 'centre' voters that they won over in 2005 simply won't go near them now.

Really - the only two questions in this election are : how much of PO's support will go to the SLD, and how much of PiS' support will go to the PSL?

It's also worth pointing out that the PO/PSL/SLD "cordon sanitaire" will make sure that PiS cannot win this election. Even if they somehow win the most votes - it's certain that the other parties will be able to form a majority in the Sejm in order to make sure that PiS stay out of power. We already saw this happen on the local and regional level.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron Jul 22, 11, 03:40 #71

delphiandomine:

SLD : 19% (not a great night, but about as much as they could hope for)

If they got that, that would be a really good result for them.

delphiandomine:

It's also worth pointing out that the PO/PSL/SLD "cordon sanitaire" will make sure that PiS cannot win this election. Even if they somehow win the most votes - it's certain that the other parties will be able to form a majority in the Sejm in order to make sure that PiS stay out of power. We already saw this happen on the local and regional level.

I totally agree with that. And thank God for that.

Here is the reason for my prediction, although the poles might indicate that the PO has got a big lead ahead of the elections, the media-just to keep things interesting, will make the contest closer than it really is-because you know how much the media hates boredom. Consequently what will happen is that the media will take a less critical stance towards PIS and use some ridiculous horse racing metaphors to indicate the supposed close nature of the contest, so mentally weak and unstable people-people who are determined to be sheep and part of the in crowd, will keep on changing their mind until through sheer probability PIS will get more votes than it deserves.

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Edited by: gumishu Jul 22, 11, 08:14 #72

What do you consider to be the reason they are ahead in the Poles' polls?

the lousiness of the oppostion (both PiS and SLD - SLD won't be a productive movement any time soon and Jarosław Kaczyński got rid of the brightest people he had in the course of recent years (by being clumsy and making idiotic political moves or statements and by straightforward dislike of too independent people - in 2005 PiS united a broad spectrum of people who wanted a postive change for Poland - people dropped from PiS mainly because of Kaczyński's apodictical ways

Beret Commando, the most dangerous squad in Poland.

in a couple of years you will see a completely different yet much more dangerous squads running around the streets - and these will be the current youth of 12 to15 - raised without any authority except the media and peer pressure - you will see the effects - banditry and lack of tolerance - and I pretty much guess you will feel it very directly - you will then long for mohair grandma squads but there will be hardly any left till then

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Edited by: gumishu Jul 22, 11, 08:25 #73

Most foreigners in this country are quite, quite happy for Poland to be a regional leader, rather than being laughed at by the world.

hhahhahaha hiiiiiihihiihihi hhahahah a regional leader hhahahah heheheh ooooooo LOL hehehehe

looks like you are a bit gullible delphi (or is it that what Mr President of the USA says you take for truth)

Selling Polish assets? Well, there has been some privatisation - but the Government has retained strategic shares in many industries, as well as loading the rules against private investors. I don't recall what company it is, but at least one large company is minority-owned by the Government, yet the Government has the majority of votes.

do you think selling Lotos refinery in Gdańsk is a good strategic move? I don't think so

PiS once blocked EU-Russia talks because the aim was to allow Russian buy-up of energy companies around Europe - PiS wanted a symmetry in relations between EU and Russia (EU capitals are mostly banned and shoved out of Russia's energy sector)

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Edited by: gumishu Jul 22, 11, 08:38 #74

What about SLD? What concrete proposals are we to see in their manifesto?

none - except for gays rights - they are pretty devoid of creative strategic thinking for Poland and what they only care for is their own welfare (sadly more and more PiS deputies seem to go in these ruts)

such as slashing miners salaries and closing unprofitable State-owned enterprises

there wouldn't be people to work there for lower wages, pal - aren't their retirement privileges withdrawn already btw?

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 09:16 #75
I don't know the ins and the outs but I would've thought repaying people for the property or land they lost is the decent thing to do? Why is there a problem with that? because they have no legal rights to the property according to Polish law? (mainly because of the inheritance law that was in place for decades only to be replaced very recently (and for pretty obscure reasons)

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 22, 11, 10:02 #76
because they have no legal rights to the property according to Polish law? So what? That simply shows that Polish law must be changed. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right. By the laws in force in the place and at the time, both the destruction of Warsaw and the entire Aktion Reinhard were completely legal: does that mean that they were right?

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jul 22, 11, 13:57 #77
So it's a choice between Kaczyński the lunatic, and 'Donald do nothong',let the markets decide. Not good.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Jul 22, 11, 15:57 #78
So it's a choice between Kaczyński the lunatic, and 'Donald do nothong',let the markets decide. Not good. Yes, the choice is limited.

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Jul 22, 11, 16:13 #79

So it's a choice between Kaczyński the lunatic, and 'Donald do nothong',let the markets decide. Not good.

Yes, the choice is limited.

I won`t vote PiS because they are maniacs obsessed with witch-hunts and tbeir leader is totally aberrated, just like his closest party companions.
I won`t vote SLD because they are post-communists and I vowed never to have anything in common with communists. Their anticlerical rethorics is unacceptable too.
I won`t vote PSL because I am not a peasant or farmer. Beside, they are descendants of former ZSL peasant party which supported communism in the past.
I won`t vote Palikot who is a little crazy and anti-clerical.
I won`t vote all other maniacs or sofa-size parties.

The only choice left for me is PO which has multiple drawbacks, but in comparison with the above they are OK.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 16:17 #80
Palikot who is a little crazy and anti-clerical. That's why I like him. Seriously, though, I'm a bit worried that he will pick up a lot of the youth vote to the detriment of PO (I'm not a PO fan, but anything to keep JK out).

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 16:18 #81
Very good illustration for the Beret Squad and their commander, Iron. :):):) you are silly sod pawian The only choice left for me is PO which has multiple drawbacks, but in comparison with the above they are OK. yes, definitely :)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 16:44 #82
you are silly sod pawian Kto sie przezywa, ten się sam tak nazywa. :):):) Latest poll from 13 July:

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 22, 11, 16:50 #83
Latest poll from 13 July: PiS are just doing nothing to bridge that gap - all those posters of "Premier Kaczynski" are scaring, not winning voters. I quite like the SLD posters actually - simple and effective.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Edited by: pawian Jul 22, 11, 17:18 #84
I quite like the SLD posters actually - simple and effective. I only saw this one: Palikot - That's why I like him. I also like him for funnily crazy style, but it was OK as long as he was a member of another party. Now he is trying to create sth own and that isn`t funny anymore.

♂

Edited by: gumishu Jul 22, 11, 18:25 #85

Palikot who is a little crazy and anti-clerical.

That's why I like him. Seriously, though, I'm a bit worried that he will pick up a lot of the youth vote to the detriment of PO (I'm not a PO fan, but anything to keep JK out).

the CBA (completely PO-run at the moment) is right in the footsteps of Palikot now - what PiS raised as serious offences by Palikot was hushed up equally by most media as well as by PO as long as Palikot was part of PO - I am guessing he is receiving a warning now should he have any success in promoting his political movement he would be then punished (in case someone does not know Palikot's parliamentary campaign in 2005 or 2007 was 'financed' by retired people and students who often paid 10 000 PLN - at the same time Palikot was hiding his fortune from his ex-wife and claimed to live off grants from some mysterious fund in Louxembourg - of course anyone less than completely naive would presume Palikot financed his parliamentary campaing from his own purse only hired people to stand for him in papers)

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 22, 11, 18:38 #86
the CBA (completely PO-run at the moment) And herein lies one of the biggest problems in Poland - all this nonsense about institutions being "PO-run", or "SLD-run" or "PiS-run" - seriously guys....

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Jul 22, 11, 18:53 #87

And herein lies one of the biggest problems in Poland - all this nonsense about institutions being "PO-run", or "SLD-run" or "PiS-run" - seriously guys....

seriously what - haven't you noticed that after Mariusz Kamiński anounced the scandal around gambling with the PO politicians in the main roles he was fired and replaced by some nice chaps who are friends with Mr Tusk? there were even more serious allegations against Mr Drzewiecki that the 'right' media completely distorted or ridiculed

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Edited by: pawian Jul 22, 11, 18:56 #88

And herein lies one of the biggest problems in Poland - all this nonsense about institutions being "PO-run", or "SLD-run" or "PiS-run" - seriously guys....

Yes, this is nonsense but it happens every time the government changes in Poland. A new broom sweeps wide and clean. We still need to go a long way to reach British standards of civic duty.

seriously what - haven't you noticed that after Mariusz Kamiński anounced the scandal around gambling with the PO politicians in the main roles he was fired and replaced by some nice chaps who are friends with Mr Tusk? there were even more serious allegations against Mr Drzewiecki that the 'right' media completely distorted or ridiculed

Kamiński was replaced by nice guys but he himself was politically engaged as a strong PiS supporter. Did you forget his famous press conference in 2007?
He surely was as neutral civil servant as I am an Arch Bishop of Krakow.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Jul 22, 11, 19:27 #89
Latest poll from 13 July Brilliant. I hope to see more polls like that in the coming weeks. Hopefully in some of them PO will reach 60 or even 80% of support (although, they might not push it too far - they have to be careful not to make the con too obvious.) This way the PO supporting lemmings will stay at home, as they will think that PO is going to win anyway with such polls :-)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,399 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Jul 22, 11, 19:40 #90
Torq- This way the PO supporting lemmings will stay at home I am taking my wife and grandpa to elections. Remember - all hands on the deck!! We are in terrible danger:

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