Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia

♂

Nov 25, 10, 00:59 #541

jonni:

That's the last thing they'd want to be remembered for. My own feeling is that they'd upset the Russians if they had to, but there simply isn't any mystery - it was just an accident.

No the Polish government doesn't want to upset the Russians and its not because they are afraid of the Russians. Its because they want to continue having better political and business relations with the Russians.

There is such a thing as realpolitik.

roboghostdogThreads: - Posts: 14 Joined: May 20, 09 ♂	Nov 25, 10, 01:05 #542
Who do you think will have an advantage in these new so called Polish & Russian relationship's?

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: delphiandomine Nov 25, 10, 01:11 #543

MediaWatch:

Its because they want to continue having better political and business relations with the Russians.

Do you think people like Komorowski, who was jailed for his opposition efforts, would seek to cover up the truth about the death of a democratically elected President of Poland at the hands of Russians?

It's a pretty loaded accusation to make.

Something you seem to forget - political allies of Tusk/Komorowski died in that plane as well.

MediaWatchThreads: 31 Posts: 1,305 Joined: Aug 30, 08 ♂	Nov 25, 10, 01:16 #544
roboghostdog: Who do you think will have an advantage in these new so called Polish & Russian relationship's? The current Polish and Russian leaders.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 25, 10, 22:41 #545
Delph, hand-picked by LK? Eh, news flash, he died in Smoleńsk! Or did you mean JK? It isn't a case of picking like in Russia where VP put himself in charge. Poland, as you know, is very procedural and the responsibility naturally falls on certain shoulders in official circles. Anything beyond that is lower-level committees or net-users to get to the heart of the matter.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Nov 26, 10, 01:40 #546
Seanus: Delph, hand-picked by LK? Eh, news flash, he died in Smoleńsk! Or did you mean JK? No no, I can't remember exactly who, but certain people in the military were appointed by Kaczynski to their posts - which sadly, they now have to investigate his death.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 26, 10, 09:57 #547
Exactly, appointed based on objective criteria and skills/competences. You can still go against your leader when bigger games are at work. Those people are now under Tusk/Kommie and we all know how they work.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 4, 10, 14:50 #548
An aircraft of the same type has just run off the end of the runway in Moscow , thankfully only two people killed... Seems one engine failed just after take off , another whilst in flight , and the remaining engine failed as it was landing...must have been a busy time for the pilot...? Very strange to have all three engines fail in quick succession..must be a fuel or systems problem....?

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 4, 10, 18:45 #549
wildrover: Very strange to have all three engines fail in quick succession..must be a fuel or systems problem....? Either way, apparently the pilot glided in from 9100 metres. If so - what a hell of a job to save so many lives!

♂

Edited by: wildrover Dec 4, 10, 19:02 #550

The old Tu 154 is a tough old plane...a few months ago one ran off the runway in bad weather and hurtled into the forest..not too much damage to the aircraft...and nobody hurt...It had suffered total electrical failure , and was forced to land on a runway that was way too short for such an aircraft , as a result it shot off the end of the runway and went 180 meters into the forest....

The pilots and crew have been awarded medals...

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Edited by: wildrover Dec 5, 10, 15:58 #551
Latest news from the Moscow crash...There is a rumour the crew may have forgotton to switch on the fuel pumps before taking off....oh dear... To lose all three engines at the same time suggests to me fuel starvation to to lack of fuel , or contaminatd fuel...

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 16:32 #552
wildrover: There is a rumour the crew may have forgotton to switch on the fuel pumps before taking off I don't think they would have been able to start the engines without the fuel pumps on. Apparently they managed to relight one of the engines.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 5, 10, 16:43 #553
Has to be contaminated fuel then...either a bacterial contamination that turned the fuel to jelly , or water in the fuel that froze.... The crew did a pretty good job of getting the plane down wth so few casualties...they deserve a medal , unless of course it was their mistake that caused the engines to fail...?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Dec 5, 10, 21:44 #554
I think Putin has gone off the boil on this topic. What did he really unearth? He didn't seem to encourage extensive debate on the various issues at all. Please don't take this off topic

MaybeThreads: 7 Posts: 335 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 00:17 #555
wildrover: To lose all three engines at the same time To lose one engine is bad luck. To lose two engines, is poor maintenance. To lose three engines is plain f8ckwittery.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 00:36 #556
Yeah, sth is seriously wrong there. There is a level of risk that you just don't go to and they went there. Playing tree slalom with wide wings is suicidal, esp at 80m. I still believe they were being read faulty readings from ground control. The Russian ATC didn't want to discuss it when asked. Closedness tends to evoke a certain reaction.

♂

Edited by: wildrover Dec 17, 10, 20:39 #557

It seems the Poles , well mr Tusk anyway . has rejected the Russian report into the Smolensk crash....

I guess the only thing that would be accepted is for the Russians to admit that they loaded all these people on to one plane , made it take off late , somehow created bad weather , and induced the pilot to fly way below a safe height...

Of course the crash could still have been avoided if they had not supplied a Russian aircraft that had been sabotaged...!

♂

Dec 17, 10, 21:25 #558

wildrover:

It seems the Poles , well mr Tusk anyway . has rejected the Russian report into the Smolensk crash....

I guess the only thing that would be accepted is for the Russians to admit that they loaded all these people on to one plane , made it take off late , somehow created bad weather , and induced the pilot to fly way below a safe height...

Of course the crash could still have been avoided if they had not supplied a Russian aircraft that had been sabotaged...!

It seems that you have difficulty accepting Tusk's opinion on the Russian report of the Smolensk crash. Why is that? He's not part of Kaczynski's political party.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 17, 10, 21:33 #559
It was pilot error , its pretty obvious , and i suppose thats what the Russian report says...

♂

Dec 17, 10, 21:43 #560

Here at work my Polish colleagues do not give a ** about this PIS-Smolensk obsession. Instead when the next PIS moron comes on air, explaining he does not know how Gosiewski died (being on a plane crashing, probably having been shot down by PO flying saucers), they yawn, roll their eyes and joke it could have been a train accident on his private IC station.
Main topic in the office these days: 1. The weather 2. Price of Christmas trees this year
I think the majority of the Polish people think like that. Except the Polska-B Radio Marija part of course.
PIS could be very well able to dig up Cold Lech his bones from Wawel just to make headlines in the news.. Excellent idea by the way. They could be sent back to Warsaw, and not disturb the Old Marshal anymore.

♂

Dec 17, 10, 21:44 #561

wildrover:

I guess the only thing that would be accepted is for the Russians to admit that they loaded all these people on to one plane , made it take off late , somehow created bad weather , and induced the pilot to fly way below a safe height...

There is that crappy flight control thread too. Not actually pursued, rather like sidetracked by the Russian side. What I heard was first that the Polish pilot didn't know Russian numerals, then that some people are impossible to find in the immeasurable vastness of Russia under Putin and so on.

♂

Dec 17, 10, 21:50 #562

sobieski:

Here at work my Polish colleagues do not give a ** about this PIS-Smolensk obsession. Instead when the next PIS moron comes on air, explaining he does not know how Gosiewski died (being on a plane crashing, probably having been shot down by PO flying saucers), they yawn, roll their eyes and joke it could have been a train accident on his private IC station.
Main topic in the office these days: 1. The weather 2. Price of Christmas trees this year
I think the majority of the Polish people think like that. Except the Polska-B Radio Marija part of course.
PIS could be very well able to dig up Cold Lech his bones from Wawel just to make headlines in the news.. Excellent idea by the way. They could be sent back to Warsaw, and not disturb the Old Marshal anymore.

But Tusk is the one disagreeing with the Russian report on the Smolensk crash. Is Tusk from the PIS party?

♂ [Suspended]

Dec 17, 10, 21:56 #563

MediaWatch:

It seems that you have difficulty accepting Tusk's opinion on the Russian report of the Smolensk crash. Why is that? He's not part of Kaczynski's political party.

So - are you now submitting to the authority of the Prime Minister when it comes to this investigation? Good. It's nice to see that you actually recognise the authority of this country's representatives. Now, why have you spent the last 8 months trying to argue against their authority, only to accept it now?

As I said all along - the Poles will do the right thing.

♂

Edited by: Velund Dec 20, 10, 18:51 #564

Maybe:

To lose three engines is plain f8ckwittery.

Look at airline name, and everything will be clear.

It is Caucasus... Imagine that there is one well paid and responsible job position and two candidates - one competent and one relative of some local "authority"... Try to imagine who will get this job.

And, please, do not ask why we (russians) consider serious health problems while traveling there as a double disaster. ;) Good chances that doctor will also be "son-of-nephew-of-granduncle-of-cousin" of some local "boss".

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 20, 10, 18:54 #565
Have they discovered yet what caused three engines to fail on the Tu 154 involved in this latest crash....?

♂

Edited by: Velund Dec 20, 10, 19:05 #566

wildrover:

Have they discovered yet what caused three engines to fail on the Tu 154 involved in this latest crash....?

Last news I seen was around Dec 17. Nothing official yet. They still working on recorders - some critical parts of voice recording was quite noisy and required processing. No intermediate results will be published until public report is sanctioned by official investigators.

Earlier there was rumors about fuel system malfunction or contaminated fuel. But three (if my memory serves me correctly) other planes, fueled from same tank, had no problems.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 20, 10, 19:19 #567
Its pretty certain that three engines did not suffer mechanical failure all at the same time , so it has to be a lack of fuel due to contamination or freezing...or unbelievably somebody forgot to fill it up before take off...!

♂

Dec 21, 10, 01:00 #568

Russian:

Dear friends, Polish President's plane crashed because of fog and decision not to land in Minsk or Moscow. There were 4 attempts to land in fog and the fourth attempt was fatal.
My deep condolences to all Polish people. Please, let's stop all those political hatred between our peoples.

I'm Russian as well, I was in Russia at the time of the plane crash and this is absolutely true. You as well as anyone else know 1. the KGB does not exist anymore. We have the ФСБ (FSB) now but that does not matter. Poland and Russia have had problems in the past but they are all put behind us now. Its still apart of both of our countries history, but as far as i'm concernd Russia and Poland are friends...Or at least on friendly terms... So i can see no reason why we would want to kill the Polish president. It wasn't our fault...
So lets not have any tention between our people. More than there already is because some people are still dwelling on the past...

Sincerely

Dmitri

enderThreads: 13 Posts: 528 Joined: Nov 7, 09 ♂	Dec 21, 10, 01:10 #569
Rosyjska: some people are still dwelling on the past... see far past is not so clear (case of Katyń - Russia did not give all material connected to Katyń if don't want to do it now say HEN but you have to give us ALL information) I wouldn't worry about president if anyone mess with plain crash it was Tusk and his band you could only cooperate with them.

♂

Dec 21, 10, 02:08 #570

Rosyjska:

I'm Russian as well, I was in Russia at the time of the plane crash and this is absolutely true. You as well as anyone else know 1. the KGB does not exist anymore. We have the ФСБ (FSB) now but that does not matter. Poland and Russia have had problems in the past but they are all put behind us now. Its still apart of both of our countries history, but as far as i'm concernd Russia and Poland are friends...Or at least on friendly terms... So i can see no reason why we would want to kill the Polish president. It wasn't our fault...
So lets not have any tention between our people. More than there already is because some people are still dwelling on the past...

Sincerely

Dmitri

Despite who or whatever was the reason (or reasons) for this crash, I think Poles and millions of people of Polish ancestry around the world, appreciated very much the sincere outpouring of sympathy from the Russian PEOPLE for Poland, when Poland was at its lowest moment this past April 10.

I agree in general that the PEOPLE of Poland and Russia should try to be friends even if the GOVERNMENTS of Poland and Russia are not perfect and there is criticism of them.

As a Polish American, I was raised to be proud of my Slavic ancestry and my parents generally only had good things to say about fellow Slavs like the Russians, Ukrainians, etc.

Although I have questions at times for the Russian government, I don't forget what the Polish Pope said about the Russians. The Pope called the Russians "his Slavic brothers".

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland Tips and Ideas	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 20:22 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com