Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia

MarcinDThreads: 5 Posts: 96 Joined: Jun 10, 08 ♂	Apr 10, 10, 22:29 #121
wildrover: There was no sugestion there was anything wrong with the aircraft...... Looking at the picture of the plane, let's just say it's not Air Force 1 which American leaders fly with. Seems like a decision in saving money. . . .

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Apr 10, 10, 22:29 #122

I believe it is more than coincidence. Stalin was responsible for the plane crash that killed Prseident Sikorski in WWII. They never found the pilot of Sikorski's plane. There may have been complicity with the Stalin and the allies in the death of Sikorski. The allies included Polish troops in the front lines of many military operations, i.e Market Garden, Monte Casino, would remain to oppose the post-war Stalinist regime. Many Polish trops were arrested by the Soviets following their forced repatriations to Poland at the end of the war. Only time will tell if the new Polish president is very friendly to the Ruskies. I wonder if they found the pilot of President Lech Kaczynski's plane.

Although Katin was only one site of the mass murders of Polish troops, it is very ominous that Smolensk is the site of the crash. Stalin ordered the murder of many more Poles at other sites. I wouldn't ever trust the Russians. Remember, Putin was a member of the KGB and now he is incharge of the crash investigation.

Dougpol

Apr 10, 10, 22:30 #123

RIP the victims of this sensless and, in hindsight, easily avoidable tragedy,

Katyn - I had almost forgotten about the massacre of the 15 thousand, or was it 19 thousand, or 21 thousand officers> 10 would be a crime, but it's in THE PAST!

Oh yes - and doesn't my adopted country enjoy reminding us? I was of the belief that Katyn happened 70 years ago. Terrible things happened everywhere, but the Polish nation consistently acts as if those tragedies happened to them.
The result of this backward thinking can be seen everywhere in the Poland of today:

Grim inner cities
Socialist thinking, particulary from PIS
Conservative public investment of infrastructure
Corrupt City Councils
Watered down legislation, such as the anti-smoking law debacle
Party political appoitments in every public body
Dangerous roads and dangerous drivers (perpetuated by stupid driving test regulations)
Education ( Level 1 and Level 2 Matura - don't get me started on that shite!)
Health and the omniprescient envelope under the table.

Yet Poles still bang on about Katyn because it's easier to look back than to look forward - that is the real crime perpetuated by the state and engendered by (some) of the population.

My friends and immediate family are different needless to say - I couldn't be on close terms with people who stick their heads in the sand - often for what are suspiciously altruistic reasons.

So, ergo, no Poland feeling sorry for itself all the time, no presidential high level mission to Katyn, no senseless tragedy such as we saw today.

♂

Apr 10, 10, 22:30 #124

1. Presidential plane plans to land on a military airfield with little or no ILS and in bad weather conditions
2. Half hour before a Russian military plane, with an experienced pilot who knows the area, could not land there and went back to Moscow
3. ATC in Smolensk asked the Polish pilot to divert to Minsk because of bad weather conditions
4. Planes with heads of state can override this kind of instruction and pilot proceeded and crashed (ordered by L.K. ?)
5. Some months ago in Georgia a similar incident occurred also with L.K. in the plane. At that time the pilot ignored the president and diverted. And later got in big **** because of that.

Or maybe the Freemasons did it? Just a guess....

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	Apr 10, 10, 22:31 #125
convex: Doubtful. I think the pressure was probably more indirect than direct. Can you post the name of the pilot?

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Apr 10, 10, 22:32 #126
JerzyBarKosiba: I believe it is more than coincidence. Stalin was responsible for the plane crash that killed Prseident Sikorski in WWII. I do think you are really 'reaching', here. Sounds like you have yourself convinced.

Lysko

Apr 10, 10, 22:36 #127

Just on Monday Poland refused a 21 800 000 000 . 00 US dollars debt from the International Monetary Fund.

Such afronts are not forgiven.

The people who died this morning were true patriots and they loved Poland very much. they refused to make Poland a slave and to sell Poland to the international bankers and International Monetary Fund. So they were killed... in a "plane crash accident" as many others planned by the Sionists/New World Order/International Money Fund/The Bilderbergs

You should go to videos.google.com and see Zeitgeist Addendum polskie napisy with your friends. You will finally understand the world much much clearer. You will see how very often presidents die in "plane crashed" when they oppose the International Monetary Fund coyotes

You can read also in John Perkins "Confessions of Economic Hitman" and see what IMF did in Argentina and many other countries

♀

Apr 10, 10, 22:39 #128

it was due to fog but hwo knows.I think it was a chance accident. I was at my friends house and first thing I saw when I got up this morning was Polish mass on polish TV. my firends mother was crying. my boyfriend and friends arnt too happy. I am personally shocked and saddened by what happened.tommorrow going to light a candle in church for them. they need to be prayed for as well as prayers for Poland. Again my condolences.

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Apr 10, 10, 22:43 #129

It's a terrible tragedy for Poland and for everybody. I felt condolence to the Polish people...

I'm from Moscow. I can't believe that healthy people can believe that Russian "KGB" is behind that tragedy.

Is it an accident? Yes and no.

Too many strange things at once: too many high rank people in an old plane targeted to the old and closed military airbase. This base was closed last year! There was no good modern equipment for safe landing any time except sunny day! Our government didn't support this visit - yes it was not polite...

There is something common betwen Russians and Polish people. Truly we both don’t need any enemy - we themselves are worst enemies for themselves...

MEMBER ♂

Apr 10, 10, 22:47 #130

Jed:

There is something common betwen Russians and Polish people. Truly we both don’t need any enemy - we themselves are worst enemies for themselves...

I know what you mean, Jed, we are sometimes our own worst enemies.

LAGirl:

they need to be prayed for as well as prayers for Poland. Again my condolences.

Jed:

It's a terrible tragedy for Poland and for everybody. I felt condolence to the Polish people

Thank you.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Apr 10, 10, 22:58 #131
RIP I don't think people understand what has happened. It will take some time. And you should never put so many extremely important persons in the same plane. Most countries never do this.

♂

Edited by: pawian Apr 10, 10, 23:04 #132

It is like a bad dream. I still think I must wake up to stop this nightmare.

I wasn`t particularly fond of Kaczyński, but I had never wished him death.

In a way, the President, a great patriot of Poland, achieved a success - the whole world learnt about Katyn Massacre.

I heard about the crash in the morning, driving to work. There was the news on one radio station and then they started playing solemn music. I changed stations one after another and they were all playing music. It was a good moment for quite pondering, before all those commentaries flowed.

See the decor of main Polish news sites - everything is black and white.

http://www.tvn24.pl/

http://www.onet.pl/

The cause of the accident - thick fog over the underinvested airport in Smolensk, Russia. Because they don`t have special equpment for landing in difficult weather conditions, the Russian air control advised Poles to go to another airport, but to no avail. The Polish pilots tried to land a few times, at least 3, which is an unheard-of situation in aviation because after the very first futile attempt of landing a pilot should give up and look for another airport.

I can imagine the pressure that the pilots of Polish Air Force 1 were under. They were going to take part in the 70th anniversary celebration of Katyn Masacre, and the President just had to be delivered there. What is worse, they had taken off from Warsaw late, so they were in a hurry.

The pilots took a risk but lost.

See the computer simulation of the crash

tvn24.pl/-1,1651578,0,1,tak-mogla-wygladac-katastrofa-podobna-do-wypad ku-casy,wiadomosc.html

Lysko

Apr 10, 10, 23:09 #133

read this and you'll understand why all this coincidences hapenned today...

Poland no longer needs IMF credit line
Monday, 29 March 2010 18:05

Poland's economy is stable and no longer needs its 21.8-billion dollar (16.2-billion euro) credit line from the International Monetary Fund, the Polish central bank said on Monday.

www.pnb.pl/news/international-voices-on-poland/164432-javno_poland_no_ longer_needs.html

The people who died this morning were true patriots and they loved Poland very much. they refused to make Poland a slave and to sell Poland to the international bankers and International Monetary Fund. So they were killed... in a "plane crash accident" as many others planned by the Sionists/New World Order/International Money Fund/The Bilderbergs

You should go to videos.google.com and see Zeitgeist Addendum polskie napisy with your friends. You will finally understand the world much much clearer. You will see how very often presidents die in "plane crashed" when they oppose the International Monetary Fund coyotes

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Apr 10, 10, 23:12 #134
http://www.tvn24.pl/-1,1651578,0,1,tak-mogla-wygladac-katastrofa-podob na-do-wypadku-casy,wiadomosc.html

♂

Apr 10, 10, 23:27 #135

Well,

Its interesting reading all your post,
Everyone is putting across there opinions and ideas,

But... we dont know the truth (yet),

But what we do know is this,

That what happened is tragic and there was a big loss of life
I just hope the BEST for Poland, for you all that will be affected by this,

I hope justice will be served if and where needed.

God Bless Poland and all its people
Adaś

EurolaThreads: 6 Posts: 2,647 Joined: Dec 2, 06 ♀	Apr 10, 10, 23:40 #136
As I'm reading and hearing more, the plain clipped the top of the trees, it was pretty low then, why is it that not even one injured person survived? Instead, the plain was also pretty much smashed to pieces. I don't get it. It makes me think about something sinister as the cause.

michaelmansunThreads: 12 Posts: 173 Joined: Jul 30, 08 ♂	Apr 10, 10, 23:43 #137
This hurts me more than if my own President had crashed. The pilot must have been an arrogant fool. My God, how could this happen? I feel most sorry for the pilot's family than anyone. They went from being honored to being vilified in a moment.

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Apr 10, 10, 23:51 #138

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3599924.ece

– I dag går mine tanker til det polske folk og til alle som har mistet sine kjære i denne tragiske ulykken, avslutter Jens Stoltenberg.

- Today my thoughts goes to the Polish people and to all the beloved ones whom have lost their relatives in this tragic accident, ends Jens Stoltenberg (Prime Minister of Norway)

Kongen kondolerer

Kong Harald sendte lørdag kondolanser på vegne av seg selv og det norske folk til presidenten i den polske nasjonalforsamlingen.

The King condolences
At Saturday King Harald sent his condolences on the behalf of himself and the Norwegian people to the president of the Polish national assembly

Norway condolences also, although there is little that they do from TV :/

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Apr 11, 10, 00:00 #139

Eurola:

the plain was also pretty much smashed to pieces.

Even during landing the plane is going to be travelling at some 170 mph , and if as reports say one wing clipped the trees first you are going to have an aircraft cartwheeling through trees at some speed...its going to be smashed to pieces , and there will be no survivors....on top of this there was also a fire which would kill anyone who did survive...

You have some chance if the aircraft is involved in a controlled crash landing , but in this kind of crash...there is little hope...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 10, 00:01 #140
Also, the pilot dumped all the fuel so that there wouldn't be a massive explosion. Why he didn't go to Moscow is beyond me.

purpleladyThreads: 3 Posts: 39 Joined: Oct 18, 08 ♀	Apr 11, 10, 00:09 #141
Deepest condolences from Polish-Americans in the heartland of the USA. We mourn with all of Poland as we remember those whose lives were lost.

♂

Apr 11, 10, 00:11 #142

Seanus:

Why he didn't go to Moscow is beyond me.

They set off late from Poland..diverting to Smolemsk or Moscow would have meant missing this ceremony....it was either chance a landing..or suffer the embarrassment of missing the ceremony....Most pilots having had a near miss on three attempts would not chance a fourth attempt....but this guy did...i think he must have been under some pressure to do so....

What he was attempting was very very risky...and sadly he did not get away with it....

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 10, 00:21 #143
wildrover: What he was attempting was very very risky...and sadly he did not get away with it.... An RAF mate I was with today was saying that most pilots would not attempt the landing, heavy fog and high tree lines. I reckon he would have been ordered to land the plane. Lets wait till the black box info comes out.

♂ [Suspended]

Apr 11, 10, 00:23 #144

dtaylor5632:

An RAF mate I was with today was saying that most pilots would not attempt the landing, heavy fog and high tree lines. I reckon he would have been ordered to land the plane. Lets wait till the black box info comes out.

There's an interesting bit of information that isn't really being reported - seemingly, communication was lost with the plane 6 minutes before landing. Given that the plane would be gliding in at that point, there could very well have been mechanical failure - I don't know what, but it's a possibility.

I think the '4th attempt' story is just that - a story. There's been no official statement about it, and it seems to be rumour more than anything else.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 10, 00:32 #145
There will be lots of rumours going about. In 40 years time if we are still in Poland, we will be talking about the Ruskies taking out the plane, but until facts have been made, and the black box has been analysed then its all rumours.

OlaPoland

Apr 11, 10, 00:37 #146

Jed:

I can't believe that healthy people can believe that Russian "KGB" is behind that tragedy.

What are U talking about?? From where U have such information??
I'm Polish and I haven't seen such commets on any website or TV channel. Please stop talking rubbish. No one in Poland blame Russia of this crash. What is more, we, Polish people, are really grateful to Putin, Medvedev and all Russian government for their attitude towards this tragedy.

Ola.

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 10, 00:59 #147
This is nothing about Polish pride, or survival. Its just a tragic accident. And many of the Poles I knew hated the guy anyway. Never celebrate death but maybe this can be a turning point in Polish history.

SzwedwPolsceThreads: 13 Posts: 1,915 Joined: Feb 21, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 10, 01:17 #148
dtaylor5632: And many of the Poles I knew hated the guy anyway. Today people don't care about politics. Even people who didn't like him light candles today.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀	Edited by: aphrodisiac Apr 11, 10, 01:30 #149
SzwedwPolsce: Even people who didn't like him light candles today. true. I did. I was not particularly fond of him, but does it really matter at this point?

Polska9e04

Apr 11, 10, 01:46 #150

If the Russians do not allow Poland full rights to the investigation, I will see it as a assasination. For goodness sake, it was the president of our country, how can you not allow us right to our leaders.

What the Russians got out of this:
-Take out all our Generals, so our military is left unorginized.
-Take out all our Politicians, maybe they wanted a revolution
-(revenge)Our President defended Georgia and made Putin look bad

No offense to any russian citizens, I just think don't like your leaders(I believe that your government is still being runned by communist)

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