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POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 10, 11, 12:11 #61
I hope that was a joke, Sok. You know full well that rifts appeared. In the Commonweralth? None.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 11, 12:13 #62
After its dissolution. It was busted from outside.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 10, 11, 12:25 #63
After its dissolution. After the dissolution the rifts started in XX century.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 11, 12:27 #64
Yes and they have continued to the present day. Much ado about nothing for the most part.

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Sep 10, 11, 12:55 #65

Yes and they have continued to the present day. Much ado about nothing for the most part.

Really? First Lithuanians betrayed Poland by allying with Soviet Russia, then Poles took Lithuanias capital, then Lithuanian SS murdered Poles by hundreds of thousands, then Poles attempted to detach from Lithuania in the 90s.

I dont know whether you're an arrogant twat treating our history this way or are you simply ignorant but the conflict is far from "about nothing".

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 11, 13:02 #66
One simple word you often ignore, Sok. WHY??

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 10, 11, 13:08 #67
One simple word you often ignore, Sok. WHY?? It all started when Lithuania sided with Soviet Russia, it did so because it believed Poland would lose and Lithuania would fall with it, another problem was that most of the industry, schools and other such were in the hands of Poles who were to put it simply ones who got Lithuania going. When Poland did win the war Lithuania gained an enemy.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 11, 13:47 #68
That would appear to be about right, Sok.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Edited by: Ironside Sep 10, 11, 13:48 #69
WHY?? WHY NOT???

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended]	Sep 10, 11, 14:01 #70
That would appear to be about right, Sok. And thats small to you? Both countries doing wrong things for the right reasons, essentially their survival and thats f*cking small to you? I guess the pathetic excuse you call scottish history is big then?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Sep 10, 11, 14:02 #71
I meant the petty squabbles over names, not what came before.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 11, 11, 17:45 #72
they had a Commonwealth which worked well for some time before inevitable rifts appeared. tell me more Sean, about those rifts. Soviet Russia nonsense. Soviet Russia never existed. What existed was Soviet Union. During Soviets, Russians were in deeper sh** then Poles, we all know that

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Oct 3, 11, 19:46 #73

"New" law (i.e. Lithuania related lessons in Lithuanian, equal Lithuanian exam) is not aimed to hurt minorities or to assimilate them, instead it is aimed to help with integration, and solve some other issues. It is not fun, when you go to hospital and you are asked to speak Polish or at least Russian at reception desk, or when state employee admits that she can't read in state language. It is not fun when person, who immigrated from South America, manages to learn state language in 3 years way better, than person who lives here for 40-50 years. Sounds like twilight zone, but these are examples from my personal experience.

It is obvious that lacking skills in state language can be a huge problem for gaining higher education and career. Problems starts outside of area near Vilnius, because most studies are in state language at universities, and huge amount of already complex information received there are made even more complex due to language barrier. Same with career: it is hard to get a good job outside of Vilnius district and Vilnius itself (to some extent), if you have problems with state language. Mind you, that same applies to Lithuanians. Minorities not wanting to learn state language are simply isolating themselves and lowering their opportunities in whole state. Brighter students understand that easily and don 't oppose the idea, because they think they will need state language anyway.

That law is aimed for solving such things. The only problem is terms, whose are nonsense. I think they should introduce changes only for new generations (i.e. new education program for lower grades) and not for current students, because it is impossible to learn so fast, and they need to learn a lot. I suppose there will be changes made to law for giving more time for adaptation as I have already said: terms are nonsense. Current government is notorious for making quick overnight decisions without evaluating them fully. :)

If that law has good intentions, why are people protesting? Well, that thing is greatly escalated by some politicians, whose simply manipulate other people. They have power in Vilnius district and some other districts near it. High corruption, high unemployment and not much perspectives there. Media isn't independent there too (i.e. politicians assigning money for local newspapers and so on). In other words, politicians can influence local people a lot and in a way they need. That is very bad, because it makes tense relations not only between Lithuanians and Polish minority, but between Lithuania and Poland too.

ZaltysThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Oct 3, 11 ♂	Oct 3, 11, 19:57 #74
Lithuanian SS Something new :)

PWEIThreads: 5 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 28, 11 ♂	Oct 3, 11, 20:03 #75
ZaltysLithuanian SS Something new :) Indeed. But expecting Soki to talk about history honestly is somewhat foolish.

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Oct 3, 11, 21:18 #76

Incidentally, before anyone starts screaming about discrimination - as long as Poland doesn't allow Lithuanians to be named as they wish, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

It really does not matter (at least for me) in what state are Lithuanians in Poland when compared to state of Poles in Lithuania. Every citizen must be important independent of his nationality, and if it is reasonable and possible, what is asked, it must be done (and not as favor to other country or implementation of some stupid principle of mirror).

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Oct 3, 11, 22:47 #77

New" law (i.e. Lithuania related lessons in Lithuanian, equal Lithuanian exam) is not aimed to hurt minorities or to assimilate them, instead it is aimed to help with integration, and solve some other issues.

Ah yeah, I sure that it is as you say, NOT.

By the way whats the point to learn Lithuanian? Why is Lithuania such economical power ? Maybe there is a lot of people - 3 millions in total - Warsaw and fringes is more than that !You should all learn Polish or English or even bloody Chinese because it gives more than Lithuanian.

So yeah I think that new law is just your miserable fascist way to assimilate Poles. And you will chock on that !

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 3, 11, 22:49 #78
By the way whats the point to learn Lithuanian? What's the point in learning Polish? So yeah I think that new law is just your miserable fascist way to assimilate Poles. And you will chock on that ! It doesn't matter what you think - in fact, it's quite amusing that 38 million Poles tried and failed to bully 3 million Lithuanians.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 3, 11, 23:03 #79
What's the point in learning Polish? Yeah, nobody should be forced to do it. It doesn't matter what you think - in fact, it's quite amusing that 38 million Poles tried and failed to bully 3 million Lithuanians. If all your facts look like that one - you are a good material for Goebbels.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Oct 3, 11, 23:10 #80
Yeah, nobody should be forced to do it. But they are in Poland. If all your facts look like that one - you are a good material for Goebbels. 38 million Poles, 3 million Lithuanians...and Lithuania is winning.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Oct 3, 11, 23:21 #81
38 million Poles, 3 million Lithuanians...and Lithuania is winning. Where is bulling in this equation ? But they are in Poland. so what - if somebody doesn't want to learn Polish his/her problem.

ZaltysThreads: - Posts: 5 Joined: Oct 3, 11 ♂	Oct 4, 11, 07:12 #82
By the way whats the point to learn Lithuanian? Why is Lithuania such economical power ? Maybe there is a lot of people - 3 millions in total - Warsaw and fringes is more than that !You should all learn Polish or English or even bloody Chinese because it gives more than Lithuanian. Yes, all those languages are so useful, but not inside Lithuania. That is the point.

piktoonisThreads: - Posts: 96 Joined: Apr 1, 11 ♂	Oct 4, 11, 13:42 #83
Ironside, you are saying that everyone in Poland must learn polish language, but in Lithuania learning lithuanian is waste of time. Maybe you should find some new hobby instead of crying how evil is Lithuania.

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