Priests are paid by the Gov't in Poland.

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Nov 21, 11, 19:52 #61

Ironside:

Hey Jonny with all due respect - its only your opinion:)

No. It's a statement of fact. They are Polish and nothing else.

Ironside:

I know that they are not Polish culturally.

Know them, do you? I personally know several of the folks who run the site, and I can assure you that culturally they are very Polish indeed.

Not every Pole has a picture of the previous Pope on their living room wall ;)

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Nov 21, 11, 20:26 #62

I don't mean to pour gasoline on the fire, but I noticed the phrase about the priest teaching 'religion' in schools and getting a salary paid by the state. Is the priest teaching comparative religion including the ideas of atheism and agnosticism? IMHO, that would be a public service. If he is promoting the values and the ideas of the Catholic church, then the Catholic church should be paying him.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Nov 21, 11, 21:44 #63
lateStarter: Is the priest teaching comparative religion including the ideas of atheism and agnosticism? Atheism and agnosticism aren`t religion.

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Nov 21, 11, 21:52 #64

JonnyM:

No. It's a statement of fact. They are Polish and nothing else.

Nope thats still only your opinion.

JonnyM:

Know them, do you? I personally know several of the folks who run the site, and I can assure you that culturally they are very Polish indeed.

What would you know about that ?

JonnyM:

Not every Pole has a picture of the previous Pope on their living room wall ;)

Thats not about a picture but certain attitude - they are redundant waste - a plenty of those left behind during history of Poles.

lateStarter:

IMHO, that would be a public service.

another ignorant half-product of your revolution Jonny :)eh?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Nov 21, 11, 22:39 #65
lateStarter: If he is promoting the values and the ideas of the Catholic church, that would be it.

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Nov 23, 11, 11:07 #66

pawian:

Atheism and agnosticism aren`t religion.

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Seems like they would qualify under 2, 3, and 4...

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Nov 23, 11, 12:23 #67

lateStarter:

I don't have a problem with tax deductions for religious orders

Why? It's insane - taxes should be used for different things than beliefs of a part (even if major) of society. Roads, schools, infrastructure, fire fighters, police. Not the 'services' offered by the Church.

pawian:

Priests who work in schools as Catholic religion teachers are paid by the state.

Yup.

Teffle:

So priests are paid by the state then? definitely? Is anyone disputing this?

Yes, and 1,04 % of EVERYONE'S taxes is given to the Roman Catholic Church whether you like it or not, aside many funds, and for example priests for the army and in hospitals, that are paid (enormous money, especially in the army) by the gov't.

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Nov 23, 11, 13:27 #68

lateStarter:

I don't mean to pour gasoline on the fire, but I noticed the phrase about the priest teaching 'religion' in schools and getting a salary paid by the state. Is the priest teaching comparative religion including the ideas of atheism and agnosticism? IMHO, that would be a public service. If he is promoting the values and the ideas of the Catholic church, then the Catholic church should be paying him.

Pour away ls. They are paid to indoctrinate children in the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. They have no obligation to do anything esle. If a parent does not wish their child to be indoctrinated, they can opt out. Wouldn't it be great if kids learned about other ways of explaining the world?

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Nov 23, 11, 15:51 #69

teflcat:

Pour away ls...

Very well said!

JonnyM:

Not every Pole has a picture of the previous Pope on their living room wall ;)

Hahahahah.

Ironside:

they are redundant waste

- how nice to say such a thing about other people - that really shows your attitude to people of a different opinion than yours! Redundant waste? - Hey, maybe you'll open a concentration camp for them some day and get rid of this "redundant waste"? Because that's your attitude.

Seanus:

How did their coffers get so deep?

Abuse.
I can only agree with your post.

Ironside:

Do you really want to go into definitions of who is Polish or who is not?

We can assume that according to you a good, true Pole is Catholic, none else.

Ironside:

monies collected during mass but thats suppose to be for maintenances of church and such.

- in some parishes even twice per mass! I've seen that myself.
Maintenance? If they didn't build castles but normal buildings they would cost less. Look as any shopping mall or hypermarkets like Tesco's - it's cheaper, and fits in more people.

Ironside:

hateful dumb **** !

That's your only answer to Boletus's long post?! Wow, you really have nothing.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 16:27 #70
Ironside: Oh ? And you're asking why you I call you hypocrite? really ? : Yes. I didn't get an answer last time and I don't expect one this time.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 16:40 #71
teflcat: es. I didn't get an answer last time and I don't expect one this time. because the answer is obvious, just read your own posts.

teflcatThreads: 6 Posts: 1,076 Joined: May 29, 11 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 16:42 #72
Ironside: the answer is obvious The answer is not at all obvious to me. If you are going to insult somebody (twice), back it up properly.

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Nov 23, 11, 16:56 #73

Ironside:

What would you know about that ?

Plenty. Poland has 40 million people - there's no such thing as 'true' Pooles who hold the same beliefs as yourself and others somehow 'less Polish' whose opinion is not yours.

Ironside:

another ignorant half-product of your revolution Jonny :)eh?

My revolution?

Olaf:

Yes, and 1,04 % of EVERYONE'S taxes is given to the Roman Catholic Church whether you like it or not,

Even if you opt out, they still give the same amount of your tax towards building that giant temple in Wilanow.

Ironside:

the importance of Catholicism for the Polish Nation:)

There has always been the less catholic side. And the world (including Poland) is changing very fast indeed.

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Nov 23, 11, 17:19 #74

JonnyM:

Plenty. Poland has 40 million people - there's no such thing as 'true' Pooles who hold the same beliefs as yourself and others somehow 'less Polish' whose opinion is not yours.
I disagree there is certain CV of Polish culture and some peeps in Poland skipped it and now they are pretending to be some kind of intellectual or cultural elite - maybe they are - but they are not Polish elite, period.

[quote=JonnyM]My revolution?

Revolution you support.

JonnyM:

There has always been the less catholic side

Yep, eventually crumbling away.

JonnyM:

And the world (including Poland) is changing very fast indeed.

Isn't that always the case? Some things change all the time and some are constant.

The world is going mad if you ask me. Take my example, my views were left-wing at least according to standards from 1930'(patriotic left) runs in the family, but the world's changes and its crazy notions pushed me into conservatism camp.:)

teflcat:

The answer is not at all obvious to me.

what are you taking part in RCC ceremonies if you hold such opinions about RCC and you are mocking priests ?

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Nov 23, 11, 17:28 #75

Ironside:

Yep, eventually crumbling away.

Quite the opposite. In the eleven years I've lived here I've seen a very noticeable change in attitudes to both priests and the RC Church. Attendances are falling, and for good reason. I talk to a lot of people about changes in Polish society on a regular basis, and the subject of political, greedy or out-of-touch clergy comes up often.

Ironside:

what are you taking part in RCC ceremonies if you hold such opinions about RCC and you are mocking priests ?

I took part in a baptism at the request of dear friends. Should I stay away from weddings and funerals?

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Nov 23, 11, 18:16 #76

teflcat:

Quite the opposite. In the eleven years I've lived here I've seen a very noticeable change in attitudes to both priests and the RC Church.

Its one trend there are other not necessary noticeable by you, and 11 years is not enough to say which way all that goes.
but eventually like always those fringes will crumble away often with people.

teflcat:

I took part in a baptism at the request of dear friends. Should I stay away from weddings and funerals?

You shouldn't play any active part in those.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 18:45 #77
Ironside: Revolution you support. Just gentle, logical sensible change. Ironside: Its one trend there are other not necessary noticeable by you, and 11 years is not enough to say which way all that goes. but eventually like always those fringes will crumble away often with people. Somehow I doubt that...

lateStarterThreads: 2 Posts: 34 Joined: Jul 14, 09 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 19:37 #78
teflcat: If a parent does not wish their child to be indoctrinated, they can opt out. Is it really that easy? I ask because I remember someone I knew who was married to a non-Catholic that eventually moved to Canada because of this very issue. I guess the experience could differ according to location.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Nov 23, 11, 19:45 #79
lateStarter: I remember someone I knew who was married to a non-Catholic that eventually moved to Canada because of this very issue. If he/she said so, then he/she lied. The reason for emigration wasn`t the religious persecution in Poland - it was purely a desire to have a better life in Canada. Come on.

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Nov 24, 11, 09:02 #80
Ironside: You shouldn't play any active part in those. There is no ban on that, come on. No one can forbid an atheist to attend a mass. So they can show up on Catholic weddings, funerals and ceremonies, if they deicide to.

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Nov 24, 11, 19:20 #81

Olaf:

There is no ban on that, come on. No one can forbid an atheist to attend a mass. So they can show up on Catholic weddings, funerals and ceremonies, if they deicide to.

Come on, can't you read ? Active - means pretending to be Catholic or Christian, you can alway go do your gawking thingy.
Where are you from ? Norway ? That would explain that their have been alway a bit wired, something not quite right yo there. Pagans for most of the time.
Funny notion they have about children, that think that anybody could be a better parent than actual parents.
:)

JonnyM:

Just gentle, logical sensible change.

:DDDD

JonnyM:

Somehow I doubt that...

Somehow I knew you would. Nobody likes to do something in vain.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Nov 24, 11, 19:48 #82
Ironside: Somehow I knew you would. Nobody likes to do something in vain. One day you'll make sense. But not yet.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,856 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Nov 24, 11, 20:34 #83
JonnyM: One day you'll make sense. But not yet. got a look in the mirror?

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Nov 25, 11, 08:59 #84

Ironside:

Active - means pretending to be Catholic or Christian

Why on Earth would an atheist pretend to be believing this?! That made me laugh.

Ironside:

you can alway go do your gawking thingy.

I don't have one, I don't need one. But I see you have it, and it's big.

Ironside:

Funny notion they have about children, that think that anybody could be a better parent than actual parents.

What's that has to do with the topic, eh? Ran out of your "arguments" [meaning insults in your case]?!

Ironside:

Pagans for most of the time.

And thank god for that! :D

Ironside:

something not quite right yo there.

Not right? If you can't comprehand something, it doesn't mean it's not right.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 25, 11, 13:57 #85
Olaf: Not right? If you can't comprehand something, it doesn't mean it's not right. is no right, not enough sun makes youz mad like a hare in March. Olaf: What's that has to do with the topic, eh? Nothing, but it has to do with you . Olaf: Why on Earth would an atheist pretend to be believing this?! To become godfather for one/ dude for number of reasons

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 11, 00:33 #86
Becoming a godfather means responsibilities, and mostly: helping parents raise child in catholic faith. No atheist would do this, as it would contradict what they stand for.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 11, 00:51 #87
Olaf: Becoming a godfather means responsibilities, and mostly: helping parents raise child in catholic faith. No atheist would do this, as it would contradict what they stand for. Some do, hence I call them hypocrites !

OlafThreads: 8 Posts: 1,369 Joined: Oct 29, 09 ♂	Nov 28, 11, 15:55 #88
Well, if some of them do so - I agree with you on this.

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