RHD cars in Poland - my campaign to change the rules in Poland

landoraThreads: 1 Posts: 190 Joined: Oct 14, 09 ♀	Oct 21, 09, 09:52 #31
Everything is wrong with one hot and one cold, SOME people might like the water warm, I don't particularly enjoy having my hands/teeth/face burnt or frozen! And your plugs are irritating, they can be switched off and then "someone" wonders why the kettle is not working :P

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Edited by: drew128 Oct 21, 09, 10:19 #32

I think its fair that its possible in special cases that you could import such a car, your case seems worthy. I never considered to bring my UK car to Poland, the wife was quite attached to it, well at least until the seatbelt was fixed. I do prefer LHD as I am right handed, so its very natural, RHD seems the wrong way around to me completely. I hold a coffee cup, eat, answer the phone, grope the wife with the right hand, so its natural to do the same in a car.

I propose getting the UK into the real world, get them all on the correct side of the road, natural selection will sort some of them out and thus less traffic on the roads, its a winner and when they are all confused get rid of the imperial system.

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Oct 21, 09, 10:48 #33

drew128:

I do prefer LHD as I am right handed, so its very natural, RHD seems the wrong way around to me completely. I hold a coffee cup, eat, answer the phone, grope the wife with the right hand, so its natural to do the same in a car.

Interesting that you consider the gearstick to be the most important control mechanism in a car. Personally I'd say that the steering wheel is more important because I find it easier to avoid accidents by changing the direction of the car than by changing gear. For that reason I prefer to have my dominant hand (my right hand) on the steering wheel at all times.

drew128:

I propose getting the UK into the real world, get them all on the correct side of the road, natural selection will sort some of them out and thus less traffic on the roads, its a winner and when they are all confused get rid of the imperial system.

The point is that UK already drives on the correct side of the road.

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Oct 21, 09, 11:17 #34

Harry:

Interesting that you consider the gearstick to be the most important control mechanism in a car. Personally I'd say that the steering wheel is more important because I find it easier to avoid accidents by changing the direction of the car than by changing gear. For that reason I prefer to have my dominant hand (my right hand) on the steering wheel at all times.

I wouldn't disagree with your opinion on this Harry, for me I prefer to use my right hand for many things which do fall on that side of the car, be it gear stick, radio, picking something up. Also I find, be it a truck, van or car, once to clutch has been used you have more room for your foot, so my personal choice is LHD.

Harry:

The point is that UK already drives on the correct side of the road.

Even proudly wearing my Queen Victoria Union Jack knickers I think clinging to that is pushing it a bit. Britain drives on the left and the rest of Europe on the right. The statement is correct to use, but only in the UK and for a few other countries that aren't close by. For that stance then cars in the UK will always get side swiped by LHD trucks.

Plenty of people on this forum complain about the standards of Polish driving, so would the prospect of returning Poles, buying cheap cars in the UK to drive in Poland concern you more?

The gentleman has a good case with a modified for disability car to use in Poland, but I don't think its a great thing to have it as standard practice.

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Oct 21, 09, 11:29 #35

dnz:

How do i register a UK car here in Poland? Off on sunday to buy an audi but the MOT and tax have run out and want to get it registered in Poland. Possible?

Allegedly so, but I haven't heard of anyone successfully doing it yet.

Best bet is to go to the place that deals with licencing up in Wilczak and ask them. If it's possible, then you just go up there, fill in some forms and go back and collect the licence plates a few days later. Quite painless, apparently.

You'll need some sort of residency too - they let you register the car for as long as you're legally in Poland. I'm not sure, but I've got a feeling that there's some sort of import tax charged too.

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Oct 21, 09, 11:35 #36

drew128:

I wouldn't disagree with your opinion on this Harry, for me I prefer to use my right hand for many things which do fall on that side of the car, be it gear stick, radio, picking something up. Also I find, be it a truck, van or car, once to clutch has been used you have more room for your foot, so my personal choice is LHD.

This appears to be where we differ: I want safety to be the most important factor; you prefer convenience to be. I don't know what you mean by more room for one's foot, if anything there is less room in a LHD car because the foot that isn't always on a pedal (i.e. the left one) is up against the car door, in a RHD you can stick your left leg out to the left!

drew128:

Even proudly wearing my Queen Victoria Union Jack knickers I think clinging to that is pushing it a bit. Britain drives on the left and the rest of Europe on the right.

From safety and logistics viewpoints Britain drives on the correct side of the road. It is far better to have people's right hands and right eyes in the position that they are in the British set up than in the European version.

drew128:

Plenty of people on this forum complain about the standards of Polish driving, so would the prospect of returning Poles, buying cheap cars in the UK to drive in Poland concern you more?

Not at all. Apart from anything else, a British car which has just failed its MOT is likely to be safer than a lot of Polish cars!

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Oct 21, 09, 11:39 #37

Harry:

From safety and logistics viewpoints Britain drives on the correct side of the road. It is far better to have people's right hands and right eyes in the position that they are in the British set up than in the European version.

Correct!

Harry:

Not at all. Apart from anything else, a British car which has just failed its MOT is likely to be safer than a lot of Polish cars!

Most definitely correct.

It seems that Poland is the only country in the EU who won't let people register RHD cars, In the UK we allow LHD cars to be registered so why should it be any different?

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Oct 21, 09, 12:23 #38

Harry:

This appears to be where we differ: I want safety to be the most important factor; you prefer convenience to be. I don't know what you mean by more room for one's foot, if anything there is less room in a LHD car because the foot that isn't always on a pedal (i.e. the left one) is up against the car door, in a RHD you can stick your left leg out to the left!

The old safety gag, the cornerstone of modern day UK PLC, pages and pages of hi vis paper churning out the bleedin' obvious to the PCed to death public. My dominant hand will have its dominate finger in my nose relieving an itch which is all about safety. I disagree, a Scania has no room to put ones left foot, apart from under the pedal it just came off, surely a PC nightmare of a safety issue when one has to disengage forward propulsion to prevent barging into another OAP driven Mirca. The LHD version has a handy rest for the foot with plenty of space raised up a tad to aid a quick safety de-clutch. We have 3 cars in the family, all got room, the RHD versions do not, because of the engine tunnel. I guess this all dependent of the model of car or truck, so your right and I am right.

Harry:

rom safety and logistics viewpoints Britain drives on the correct side of the road. It is far better to have people's right hands and right eyes in the position that they are in the British set up than in the European version.

....but if you do this in mainland Europe is not very safe is it. I never noticed any difference is driving a LHD or RHD vehicle regarding perception on the road, not in a car or truck, If this is true then in the UK all left handed people are a danger and all righted people are iffy in the rest of Europe. I see it as only more of a risk if you are nearer the curb. The driving test in the UK is not difficult and does not take into consideration actual full road testing, let along bad weather training, so this view is formed how.

Harry:

Not at all. Apart from anything else, a British car which has just failed its MOT is likely to be safer than a lot of Polish cars!

That would depend on what it failed on. I think the best solution is RHD stay in the UK and LHD in Europe, the goods can go as unaccompanied freight and picked up by a UK trucker to delivered onwards in a safe manner.

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Oct 21, 09, 12:29 #39

Its perfectly safe to drive a rhd in a lhd environment and vice versa provided that you make concessions when overtaking etc ie dropping back from the car you want to pass to get a clear view of the road, I've driven thousands of miles in a rhd car in europe and never had any problems whatsoever.

From a safety point of view using your right hand to control the direction of travel makes much more sense as does changing gear with your left hand, In normal daily life if you are right handed you don't use your left hand to do complex tasks so why should you do the same when driving? Also studies show if you are right handed you are also right eyed thus making your right eye more suitable for taking in more information ie oncoming traffic.

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Oct 21, 09, 12:47 #40

dnz:

From a safety point of view using your right hand to control the direction of travel makes much more sense as does changing gear with your left hand, In normal daily life if you are right handed you don't use your left hand to do complex tasks so why should you do the same when driving? Also studies show if you are right handed you are also right eyed thus making your right eye more suitable for taking in more information ie oncoming traffic.

What is the complex task my right hand being used for, apart form steering, what do I miss, surely this complex task you talk of is steering a motor vehicle? What hand is attached to what part of the car is neither here nor there, I only say that its more comfortable for me and more relaxing to drive LHD, thats the important bit, being uncomfortable will lead to less concentration, likely to get more stressed, prone to bouts of tiredness. Now last time I drove though the land of my birth, people were shouting, waving fists at each other, the guy driving was shouting along the lines of no one can drive. Your dominant right eye will be useless if a fellow stressed Brit punches it out.

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Oct 21, 09, 12:49 #41

dnz:

Also studies show if you are right handed you are also right eyed thus making your right eye more suitable for taking in more information ie oncoming traffic.

It's actually that the right eye is used as the primary eye and the left eye is used to triangulate (to estimate distance). People are better at seeing things which are to their right and better at judging distances of things which are to their left. On British roads the things which you really want to avoid (i.e. objects closing at double the speed of stationary objects) are on your right and things which you most commonly want to judge distances to (i.e. turnings) are to your left. Although the continent does offer one advantage: it's easier to see the signs by the side of the road here.

Yet another problem is with which way people turn to look behind them. 90% of people will look over their right shoulder when told to look behind them, it's instinctive. And that's the shoulder you look over when pulling out in the UK. In Europe....

Plus there's reversing: to look back between the seats on a LHD you need to take your right hand off the wheel, so you're left steering with your left. Unless you do it Polish style and use only the mirrors to look behind you. Mmm, that's safe isn't it!

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Edited by: drew128 Oct 21, 09, 13:26 #42

Harry:

Yet another problem is with which way people turn to look behind them. 90% of people will look over their right shoulder when told to look behind them, it's instinctive. And that's the shoulder you look over when pulling out in the UK. In Europe....

Why would you turn around, most cars have 3 mirrors, if I felt the need to check a blindspot or ogle a lady then my head would go in the shortest way around, Harry I do not suffer form this inflection to turn my head the wrong way and never seen anyone struggling that I can remember.

Harry:

Plus there's reversing: to look back between the seats on a LHD you need to take your right hand off the wheel, so you're left steering with your left. Unless you do it Polish style and use only the mirrors to look behind you. Mmm, that's safe isn't it!

I always use mirrors Harry, 100%, I can see no benefit to trying to look behind me, apart from losing were the front is. I have to say most of the things I drive don't have rear windows to look through or there is 45 foot of trailer in the way, its a fail in the test on big stuff, also most assessment drives in the UK will require you to put it blindside onto a bay with the windows up and using only mirrors. Lets beg to differ on this..... HOWEVER.

is is interesting

Harry:

It's actually that the right eye is used as the primary eye and the left eye is used to triangulate (to estimate distance). People are better at seeing things which are to their right and better at judging distances of things which are to their left. On British roads the things which you really want to avoid (i.e. objects closing at double the speed of stationary objects) are on your right and things which you most commonly want to judge distances to (i.e. turnings) are to your left. Although the continent does offer one advantage: it's easier to see the signs by the side of the road here.

Also as dnz says. Never considered this part of your argument, very interesting indeed. Next time I am out I will be thinking about this and I have a trip to the UK also soon. (dnz....norfolklines?) For me I like to know who is in front, behind, coming at me, I would say what registrations and the type of car have also a bearing in how I drive, if I have something bigger to drive then also the bindspots down the side of trailer. I have not noticed any difference from LHD to RHD for me though.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 13:30 #43
drew128: Why would you turn around, most cars have 3 mirrors, if I felt the need to check a blindspot You'll fit in to Polish driving superbly with that attitude!

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♀	Oct 21, 09, 13:33 #44
drew128: I always use mirrors Harry, 100%, I can see no benefit to trying to look behind me, apart from losing were the front is. I just pray you never run over a toddler or a dwarf..:)

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Edited by: drew128 Oct 21, 09, 13:54 #45

Harry:

You'll fit in to Polish driving superbly with that attitude!

I fit fine here, as I do in any other country, just because I passed my tests in another country I drive as the conditions dictate. I stress levels would soon mount up if I tut tuted every daft maneuver done by a car driver, people drive as they do, let them get on with it and try not to add to the problem.

I have to say again Harry, even in the UK you will be asked to blindside a vehicle onto a bay using just mirrors on any assessment drive. Doing this allows to to see the back and front without moving your head, I know in the UK a car driver follows the spot on the rear window around the curb in the test, but its not the same on other tests on larger vehicles. I see no benefit to twisting your body around, you will not have full control of the car.

Now maybe your reply is aimed at the

Harry:

if I felt the need to check a blindspot

part. You will be aware of the blind-spots regarding a large vehicles and laws regards how many mirrors and what the mirrors should point at. The main mirror cluster can hide a car at a junction, great for looking back but a big blind spot at say a roundabout, so it that situation I would be checking that blind spot, perhaps you are thinking I do not care period, then you would be wrong.

niejestemcapita:

I just pray you never run over a toddler or a dwarf..:)

I would see them in the mirrors and just as important if they were crossing the front I would also see them. I see then same in the center mirror as I would by looking on the window itself, then what is either side of the vehicle with the door mirrors and also view the front of the vehicle, my chances of dwarf spotting are very good. I am stunned this is not taught in the test.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 21, 09, 18:43 #46
drew128: I always use mirrors Harry, 100%, what you never use the life saver when pulling out? thats compulsory for bike tests. do you also not look around when reversing? Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,309 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 19:10 #47
drew128: Next time I am out I will be thinking about this and I have a trip to the UK also soon. (dnz....norfolklines?) Occupation-lighting designer(not hgv driver). More likely ***********.

polishcanuckThreads: 10 Posts: 583 Joined: Feb 11, 07 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 19:16 #48
drew128: I always use mirrors Harry, 100%, I can see no benefit to trying to look behind me If you see no need to check your blindspots, you should be taken off the road and enrolled in a driving class ASAP!

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Oct 21, 09, 19:37 #49

Wroclaw Boy:

what you never use the life saver when pulling out? thats compulsory for bike tests. do you also not look around when reversing? Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

Surely you can reverse using mirrors, front, back, left hand side and right hand side by moving just your eyes. Or what hanging out the window, back and left hand covered, or looking out the back window, thats a lot of flatten dwarfs around the front and offside.

Its the same to leave a parking place on the road, look in the mirror wait for a space, set off, no flat children or turn around, hang out the window and wipe someone out cause I ain't looking forwards.

Explain the life saver to me, never done any sort of bike test, I am interested in any form of knowledge furthering.

drew128Threads: 3 Posts: 64 Joined: Jun 3, 07 ♂	Oct 21, 09, 20:04 #50
time means: Occupation-lighting designer(not hgv driver). More likely ***********. Designer, programmer, rigger, agency and tour driving, mostly just freelance programming now, Theatre/Area/Corporate mostly in Denmark. My age and the forth coming CPC requirements make driving unattractive as a job these days.

MEMBER ♂

Oct 22, 09, 11:09 #51

drew128:

Explain the life saver to me,

Its basically a quick glance to the left or right to be sure there is nothing in your blind spot, you should use it when pulling out, overtaking and occasionally when turning depending on the type of conditions. If you dont use it on a motorcycle test everytime its an instant fail.

Lets say your driving on the motorway and theres a really fast car coming up on the outside lane which you missed in the mirrors, its easily possible to pull out to overtake when hes in your blind spot, hence the name life saver.

Forfour44Threads: 7 Posts: 63 Joined: Oct 22, 09 ♂	Oct 22, 09, 11:39 #52
Hello Everyone. My name is Chris. I have been driving my car in Poland for a year now. The MOT has just ran out and i want to get my car reg in Poland. My car is a Smart Forfour and there are not many in Poland, Would any of you think this is possable to get this reg over here. Please only give real answers. Chris

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 22, 09, 12:20 #53
Forfour44: Please only give real answers. The real answer is that its an absolute nightmare but possible.

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Oct 22, 09, 12:21 #54

Shouldn't be a problem at all, you might need to change the headlights to lhd spec ie the beam points the right way when dipped for driving on the right. The law has changed now and Poland have to allow the registration of rhd vehicles. I shall be doing it myself next week so i can let you know how i get on.

Kudos to you for driving a smart car all the way to Poland though, its a bad enough drive in the 7 series :D

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Oct 22, 09, 12:43 #55
dnz I saw youre reply recently to my Audi, i basically advertised it twice in the Autogielda and no bites. I was going to let it go cheap real cheap but i have some friends coming to stay for a while and they want to drive it, so im keeping it for a bit longer. Would have been good to hook it up to your diagnostic centre, i dont trust the Polish mechanics or any for that matter.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Oct 22, 09, 12:52 #56

Forfour44:

Would any of you think this is possable to get this reg over here.

Maybe, maybe not. In spite of Poland finally caving in and officially allowing RHD registrations on the same basis as LHD registrations, there's no guarantee that it's actually filtered through to the relevant dragons in the vehicle registration place.

However, if your MOT has run out - then you'll be uninsured, which is illegal in Poland - but I'm not sure if this applies to foreign-registered cars.

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Edited by: dnz Oct 22, 09, 13:07 #57

Insurance companies have to pay out regardless, they may not pay out for repair to your vehicle but they still have to provide third party only cover provided that there are no major defects with the car.

Shouldn't be too difficult to fix if its just in limp home mode, Not sure how expensive parts are here but my a4 used to have major problems with earthing which caused the ignition amplifier located on the top of the airbox to keep getting fried which also made the coil packs keep blowing.

Might be worth a look, if you do want to sell though let me know as i would be very interested!

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂	Oct 22, 09, 14:39 #58
Forfour44: My car is a Smart Forfour and there are not many in Poland, Would any of you think this is possable to get this reg over here. It is theoretically possible but most probably not worth the hassle. Just buy a LHD car. There aren't many Forfours out here but that's because Poles prefer to buy the Mitsubishi Colt: same car but for much less money.

legdoctorThreads: 2 Posts: 11 Joined: Aug 1, 09 ♂	Oct 22, 09, 16:27 #59
thanks

Forfour44Threads: 7 Posts: 63 Joined: Oct 22, 09 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 22:18 #60
Harry cheers for that. I'm going to the office in Lublin on Monday to find out. Forfour's are so much better then colt's. Forfour is like owing an Alfa. Better to drive then Fiat but has some niggels that Colt's don't. I have driven many many cars. Fast, slow, big, small and great. But the Forfour has never failed to put a smile on my face. No other car has came close.

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