Roma flee home after threats in Silesia

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Dec 30, 10, 19:25 #1

For several months Bytom's Roma live in fear. It started with the family, which wanted to force a tribute. In the case of non-payment of one of her sons was to have a broken leg. His mother no longer send him to school. But recently a boy was beaten at the mall Agora. Although the family phoned the police and identified the perpetrators, continued to be harassed. At the end of their own home had to flee to the hotel.

http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul146472_roma-flee-home-after-thre ats-in-silesia.html

http://katowice.gazeta.pl/katowice/1,35019,8883435,W_Bytomiu_wciaz_nie spokojnie.html

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Dec 30, 10, 22:24 #2

It's weird how Silesia is definitely not the poorest region of Poland but has the most crime. I read an article how in Brzeg skinheads a few years back were breaking into Roma homes and beating them with bats. Crime in Poland by city Number of crimes per 100,000 inhabitants:

1. Katowice 7063,7
2. Chorzów 6733,3
3. Legnica 6361,5
4. Kalisz 6228,2
5. Gdańsk 6133,7
6. Poznań 6109,2
7. Wrocław 5983,4
8. Kraków 5974,2
9. Kielce 5926,6
10. Gliwice 5733,5

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 22:37 #3
Gliwice is number 10? It's focussed on select areas only. It's generally safe to walk around here. There are quite a few NS types in Katowice and that's why the crime rate is high. Besides, it's depressing!

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 22:46 #4
I think those smaller (50 to 100 thousand) boom towns are much worse, since industry has fallen in post communist years and unemployment is high, there are many youths wondering around the streets in groups or Żule trying to rob someone, especially in eastern Poland.

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Dec 30, 10, 22:50 #5

I remember my wife escorting me off from outside a local nightclub rather quickly as trouble was brewing. This was about 5 years ago when my Polish was so-so. Local Polish bouncers were ready to lock horns with local gypsy hard nuts. She looked like a gypsy that night with how she was dressed and didn't want to become embroiled in it. I knew the bouncers so she wasn't in any danger but it was set to go down in a big way so she didn't want to be there. There is much animosity between 'dresiarze' and 'cygany'

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 22:59 #6
My brother-in-law lives in Kędzierzyn-Kożle. The Kozle part has a particularly high gypsy-density. Let us say that nobody knows over there from what they get a living, except getting social allowances and producing children by the dozens.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 23:12 #7
Pumas and flood might have put them off ;) ;) The last Romas I saw were playing guitar and accordeon in the streets. They played well so I threw them down some money. That was in Zabrze.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 23:35 #8
sobieski: except getting social allowances and producing children by the dozens. Or Robbing http://www.cda.pl/video/5331b6/Krakow-Cyganie-okradaja-jubilera

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 23:45 #9
Hence the expression 'thieving gypsies' :) I had a gypsy steal my tour programme paper in Skopje, Macedonia. He gave it back later after I threatened him a little. Best not to go overboard with them as you'll have half of their family on your back.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 23:49 #10
I do not know about robbing. And I doubt that story. Here in Warsaw you see of course the organised "mother+child" combination on the street... In my native Flanders you see the same scenario...They are dropped off in the morning in "mother/child" units by a van, and picked up in the evening. Of course some streetworkers think these people deserve our sympathy.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 30, 10, 23:53 #11
Like sales, it's all in the presentation :) When you discover they are richer than you, the boot is on the other foot.

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Dec 30, 10, 23:57 #12

sobieski:

I do not know about robbing. And I doubt that story

My friend who used to live in some village near Krosno, Podkarpacie saw with his own eyes how a Gypsie girl went into a bar offered herself to a man for money, the man went with her in some bushes Gypsie men came out beat him up and robbed him. He said things like that happen often. In the city i used to live in Stalowa Wola a Gypsie stabbed and robbed the owner of a Kantor.

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Dec 31, 10, 00:00 #13

They certainly have their ways and means but Poles are smart cookies, they are onto them. My father in law bought a car from a gypo and he knew what he was getting himself into. He showed that he knew his stuff and the gypo respected him. A mutually beneficial sale of a Merc :) Gypos are just people too and have different ways of going about things but you just need to be on your guard and it should be fine.

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Dec 31, 10, 00:09 #14
PennBoy: the man went with her in some bushes Gypsie men came out beat him up and robbed him. He said things like that happen often. He got f*cked alright...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 00:10 #15
Over (and over and over). Best be careful with gypos.

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Dec 31, 10, 00:19 #16
The women beg the men beat you up... sounds like an egalitarian society...

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 00:26 #17
I wonder if the government really outcasts them or they're just too stubborn to integrate into Polish society, i mean they've been in Poland for like 600 years.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 00:32 #18
How can they integrate when they sit on the fringes and are so different? Poland doesn't want to create a melting pot. Far rather stick with a forced salad bowl.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 31, 10, 00:32 #19
Roma did you ever asked yourself why Roma remind us of Rome?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 00:35 #20
They didn't escape the attention of the Albos either. All were ousted in their ethnic cleansing program. Silesians have the decency to merely fight their corner without eliminating them.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 00:36 #21
Seanus: Poland doesn't want to create a melting pot There's up to 50 thousand Vietnamese in Poland, many Africans they're very different from us seams like they're trying to integrate.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 31, 10, 00:42 #22
all Roma should go to Rome. and please. Its not about racism. Simple, there is less and less resources in this Europe. While it was plenty of resources, strangers were welcomed among Slavs and we used to share it with all who were able to take it from us. Albos, too. Go, please

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Dec 31, 10, 00:52 #23
Crow: all Roma should go to Rome. Where's that? I think they built a parking lot over it??? Crow: and please. Its not about racism. Simple, there is less and less resources in this Europe. As long as you promise not to use anyone else's resources...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 01:10 #24
PB, I was talking in scale terms. 50k Vietnamese is NOTHING. Poland is much bigger than the UK but nowhere near as MC. A melting point consists of sizeable quantities of many nationalities like in the UK. Crow, I hear you but there are those that still want to give and the Romas milk that. The Albos, well, they are a different matter.

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Dec 31, 10, 01:30 #25

Seanus:

PB, I was talking in scale terms. 50k Vietnamese is NOTHING. Poland is much bigger than the UK but nowhere near as MC. A melting point consists of sizeable quantities of many nationalities like in the UK.

Yea you're right, once multiple neighborhoods are gonna be full of foreign born residents people might look at things differently, and like you said Poland and Poles don't want a melting pot. And to a Pole a Roma, Vietnamese, African and a Brit like yourself are entirely two different things, I'm sure you're respected alot more in Poland than those nationalities.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 31, 10, 01:39 #26
It's all about set and setting and your audience. If you show an appreciation for Polish culture and are well read, they will invariably respect you. I really feel that they look up to me in a way but I wouldn't encourage them to do that. They see my intentions and they vastly differ from that of your average gypo.

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Jan 5, 11, 12:04 #27

Here in Norway we have a lot of gypsys begging in the streets. Begging at day and steeling burglery at night. Mostly from Romania. But sometimes there is stories about gangs doing like a tour and engage in all sort of crimes from burglery to skimming atm maskines.

They are then referred to as Polish when it is Polish gypsys and my dear Polish wife is absolutly furious about it.

Yes I admit that I dont like gypsys. I really cant see that they bring with them any good for sosiety as a whole. They cheat to get more from velfare, one mother and daugher worked together and godt total over 6.500.000 zl to much in welfare. They created 25 false children and her son faked being an autist (with no language, totally depended of mother), got busted when he took the driving lisence ;)

Everywhere they live lookes like a slum.

hugo

tow_stalinThreads: 2 Posts: 72 Joined: Jul 21, 10 ♂	Jan 5, 11, 12:38 #28
talking about gypsies... i saw how do the live in prague - eg. young (5 years old) gypsy boy spitting in the face of tiny chinese woman only because she prevented him from stealing in her's shop. sorry to say, but i don't like them - it's the matter of culture, not race.

AussieSheilaThreads: 6 Posts: 113 Joined: Aug 14, 10 ♀	Jan 5, 11, 14:24 #29
Ever since they intoduced electronic visa program for Romania and Bulgaria, a local tabloid tv reports there is a huge spike in ATM skimming, pick pocketing and shop lifting etc. The gov't refuse to admit the problem for fear of being accused discriminatory and racist.

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