What is the Roman catholic church in Poland?

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Edited by: adrian11224 Nov 14, 08, 12:28 #1

Why doesn't Poland just stop giving money to the Roman Catholic church and use it for something more useful like starting a Polish catholic church ?

A tower so large that it is the biggest building in Europe?

Then in that building we rent offices and make businesses.

Wouldn't that do a lot more than going to church and giving collection money every Sunday ?

As I see it.. 1 zloty from 100 people per church every week around all of Poland...
How many churches in Poland ?

probably like 50,000-100,000 ? this is just a guess. lets say 50,000

50,000 X 100 = 5,000,000 zloty X52 weeks in a year...260,000,000 zlotys ?

dang. Now see how much someone sucker's you into giving away as a nation every year ?

If I could I would make a thing called a PolishPeoplefoundation and use the same money people give to a church I would build big investment projects in Poland.

Big Tall Towering Buildings into the sky. Wouldn't that be better ?

KrakowiankaThreads: 2 Posts: 272 Joined: Oct 16, 08 ♀	Nov 14, 08, 12:32 #2
adrian11224: Big Tall Towering Buildings into the sky. Maybe you need a recent visit to Warsaw. What good are buildings without companies to fill them? Why are you so pressed that religion is the problem?

SwiteziankaThreads: - Posts: 525 Joined: Jun 17, 08 ♀	Nov 14, 08, 12:35 #3
And how would you propose to solve this problem, huh? How to make people not give "na tacę" and how to cancel the concordat?

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Edited by: adrian11224 Nov 14, 08, 12:39 #4

I believe all people should be free to believe what they like.

And not what they are told. but in truth. I believe that all people should be unified under one religion which has the same name for All.

Christianity, Buddhism, Islam.. these are different names which stubborn people are fighting each other for. One religion with one name with one god, by one people.

Since I believe that religion is just a behavioral code and don't believe in an almighty god, I just think it would be much simpler if everyone just agreed to abide by a religion of one name, one god, and live by those rules.

This would get rid of one problem in the world.

don't you agree ?

To Swiezanka:

To stop giving na tace ?

talk to smarter people like you :)

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 12:54 #5
adrian11224: I believe all people should be free to believe what they like. If that was the case you would not post your stupid comments here. It’s not nice to count somebody else’s money or look into someone’s pocket. Haven’t your mother taught you anything? You’re free to join any church you like so extend the same courtesy to others.

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Nov 14, 08, 13:22 #6

Piorun:

If that was the case you would not post your stupid comments here. It’s not nice to count somebody else’s money or look into someone’s pocket. Haven’t your mother taught you anything? You’re free to join any church you like so extend the same courtesy to others.

So what ?

Ever heard the saying nice guys finish last ?

Gota look into other peoples pockets!

I bet you are poor.
Grow up man.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 13:24 #7
adrian11224: Big Tall Towering Buildings into the sky. Wouldn't that be better ? Better would be some huge Stalin sculptures into the sky.

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Nov 14, 08, 13:24 #8

adrian11224:

everyone just agreed to abide by a religion of one name, one god, and live by those rules.

adrian11224:

I believe all people should be free to believe what they like.

Now how do those 2 statements agree with each other? They don't. You want to take down a religion and form a completely new one, and then tell people "hey you are free to believe what you want, even though each religion has conflicting info"

First you want to change Poland without knowing much about it, now you want to change the Roman Catholic Church without knowing anything about it or other religions.

I'd recommend some more research on the topics before you go changing the world.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 13:29 #9
Build some nice mosques or Hindu temples maybe? Or some heads of Buddha in central Warsaw square?

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 13:37 #10
adrian11224: So what ? Ever heard the saying nice guys finish last ? Gota look into other peoples pockets! I bet you are poor. Grow up man. That’s the best you can do? See you are a nice guy after all. Word of advice if you do decide to take the other path, be careful whose toes you step on.

hairballThreads: 37 Posts: 787 Joined: Dec 16, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 13:40 #11
adrian11224: I believe all people should be free to believe what they like. But from your 13 posts so far on this forum you have tried to convince everybody to stop suporting Catholicism.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 13:40 #12
adrian11224: what is the roman catholic church ? It is the church of Rome with the Pope as a head as far as I am concerned.

KrakowiankaThreads: 2 Posts: 272 Joined: Oct 16, 08 ♀	Nov 14, 08, 14:05 #13
adrian11224: Gota look into other peoples pockets! If you hate Catholicism, maybe you should go look into the pockets of your atheists friends for money to build your investments? We'll see how far that gets.

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Nov 14, 08, 14:58 #14

Krakowianka:

If you hate Catholicism, maybe you should go look into the pockets of your atheists friends for money to build your investments? We'll see how far that gets.

I'm not looking for money for myself, I'm just stating:
If all of the money that goes to the Roman catholic church (which is an organization) went to another organization that would look out for the best interest of Poles with economic, housing and work matters, IN POLAND itself and ONLY its CITIZENS, we could be a nation in a much better standing of power and flexability.

Jak te pinondze by byly urzyte do wybudowania 10 wierzowcuw w warszawie na przyklad, koszt mieszkania by nawet mugl spadnonc ale morze nie. ale nawet jak by nie spadl koszt mieszkania, by polacy mieli chociarz wiecej miejsca i opcji do rzycia. :)

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Edited by: pawian Nov 14, 08, 15:09 #15

adrian11224:

If all of the money that goes to the Roman catholic church (which is an organization) went to another organization that would look out for the best interest of Poles with economic, housing and work matters, IN POLAND itself and ONLY its CITIZENS, we could be a nation in a much better standing of power and flexability.

Roman Catholic Church in Poland is Polish. Money collected in Polish churches is not wasted. It usually covers Polish needs. Even if the money is sent abroad to help some church in Belarus, it is attended by Polish people.

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Nov 14, 08, 15:28 #16

pawian:

Roman Catholic Church in Poland is Polish. Money collected in Polish churches is not wasted. It usually covers Polish needs. Even if the money is sent abroad to help some church in Belarus, it is attended by Polish people.

I have to admit I do apologize for making this post without looking into how the church works. It makes me realize that I am making so many mistakes.

I'm going to go cry now.

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Nov 14, 08, 15:45 #17

pawian:

Money collected in Polish churches is not wasted. It usually covers Polish needs.

Money collected in churches cover the needs of the churches. People get nothing from it. The state gives money to the Church (for building new temples, for religion teachers' salary etc.) and the church is free of taxes if it gets any income.
Poland is not a rich country, so spending so much money on the church is a real problem. It would be much better for the country if all that money went for better equipment in hospitals, schools, investments in environment protection etc. The problem is that a big part of the society agrees to provide for that big parasite.

But to change it one would have to make mob use their brains, which is impossible.

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Nov 14, 08, 15:51 #18

A Polish Catholic Church (Kościół Polskokatolicki) already exists, and has two parishes in Warsaw itself (nearly 100 country-wide). It is an offshot of the Polish National Catholic Church, oragnised in Scranton, PA round the trun of the 20th century by Father Franciszek Hodur. Except for the fact it does nto recognise the pope and allows married priests, it differs little in doctrine and ritual from the RC Church. During ecumenical dialogue in the 1980s and '90s the Vatican re-confirmed the valdiity of the PNCC's sacraments.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 15:51 #19
Spot on Switezianka, an insightful commentary as ever. Poland is not alone in this respect. It seems like a convention that governments squander cash on unnecessary items. Misappropriation of funds is a governmental phenomenon and it isn't going away any time soon.

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Edited by: pawian Nov 14, 08, 16:23 #20

Switezianka:

Money collected in churches cover the needs of the churches. People get nothing from it. The state gives money to the Church (for building new temples, for religion teachers' salary etc.) and the church is free of taxes if it gets any income.
Poland is not a rich country, so spending so much money on the church is a real problem. It would be much better for the country if all that money went for better equipment in hospitals, schools, investments in environment protection etc. The problem is that a big part of the society agrees to provide for that big parasite.

But to change it one would have to make mob use their brains, which is impossible.

Don`t be so nawiedzona! :):):)

Basic question: what is the Church?
The Church is people. I mean both congregation and clergy.
If you say the Church receives the money, it is true. When you say people have nothing from it, it is not true. People support the Church because it fulfills certain needs. If people felt they don`t need religion and faith, they wouldn`t donate.

PS. I doubt that the state offers financial aid to build new churches.

adrian11224:

I'm going to go cry now.

You`d better go and say a prayer. :):):)

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Nov 14, 08, 17:58 #21

pawian:

PS. I doubt that the state offers financial aid to build new churches.

Haven't you heard of the controversies around Świątynia Opatrzności Bożej?

pawian:

If people felt they don`t need religion and faith, they wouldn`t donate.

Have you ever been to a Polish little town or a village? A lot of people donate because of social pressure, the pressure of the local proboszcz (lest the parish priest during the mass says that Mr Kowalski haven't donated for 3 months), or to for prestige.

pawian:

Basic question: what is the Church?
The Church is people. I mean both congregation and clergy.

OK, right, I was imprecise. The clergy gets the taca, not the congregation.
Anyway, if the congregation has some needs, e.g. people want to baptize a child, get married or have a funeral (which is fulfilling their needs), they have to pay extra.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 18:03 #22
People should donate for the IPU.

SwiteziankaThreads: - Posts: 525 Joined: Jun 17, 08 ♀	Nov 14, 08, 18:13 #23
southern: People should donate for the IPU. We should register some IPU church in Poland.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Edited by: southern Nov 14, 08, 18:14 #24
Switezianka: We should register some IPU church in Poland. And its priests would wear invisible clothes?In pink churches?

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Nov 14, 08, 18:34 #25

Switezianka:

Have you ever been to a Polish little town or a village? A lot of people donate because of social pressure

People are more opinionated then you give them credit for. If they don’t like the way the parish is run by their priest they let him know. This is not a 17th century you know. Supporting their local church is their business so why do you care where it goes to? Anyway it’s on voluntary basis not like other religions or sects where you give everything or a set amount of your income to the church. Even the government requires this fee by taxing you. As for other services provided by the government you also pay the extra fee for each service rendered, so there’s no difference. If you are a member of any organization you are obligated to pay the fees for that privilege and no one complains. If you think it’s too much you simply withdraw your membership. You can do the same thing with the church if you don’t like to put your money on “taca” collection plate stop attending the services, no one’s forcing you do so or for that matter no one will escort you out because you have not done so. As far as how the proceeds are spent it’s up to that organization isn’t it?

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Edited by: Prince Nov 14, 08, 18:44 #26

adrian11224:

something more useful like starting a Polish catholic church

In 16 century there was such idea. Polish protestants had majority in Polish parlament and it was close to Polish Church but we had war and later we had different business with other Catholics. It is not new idea :)

Religions in 1st Polish Republic. Especialy in today south east Poland protestants were strong.

Later:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Religions_in_Poland _1573.PNG

The Reformed opened excellent schools in Pińczów, Leszno, Kraków, Vilnius, Kėdainiai and Słuck, printed the first complete Bible in Polish, commissioned by Mikołaj "the Black" Radziwiłł. Though grouping mainly nobles and aristocrats, in managed to have some following among the peasantry as well. In some regions the number of Reformed parishes completely outnumbered the Roman Catholic ones,

Under constant pressure from the German government by the mid 19th century the United Church abandoned Polish in its liturgy and most of old Reformed nobles chose to convert to Roman Catholicism rather than to become Germans.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 18:48 #27
It's definitely u Łukasz, the maps are out ;(

RubasznyRumcajsThreads: 9 Posts: 283 Joined: Mar 29, 08 ♂	Nov 14, 08, 19:33 #28
adrian11224: Why doesn't Poland just stop giving money to the Roman Catholic church and use it for something more useful like starting a Polish catholic church ? http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%9Bci%C3%B3%C5%82_Polskokatolicki_w_ RP

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Edited by: Prince Nov 14, 08, 19:45 #29

It was the best solution. Whole Europe had religous wars and we had peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Confederation

"The Warsaw Confederation (January 28, 1573), an important development in the history of Poland and Lithuania, is considered the formal beginning of religious freedom in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. While it did not prevent all conflict based on religion, it did make the Commonwealth a much safer and more tolerant place than most of contemporaneous Europe, especially during the subsequent Thirty Years' War."

"Religious life in late 16th century Poland, situated between Orthodox Muscovy, Muslim Ottoman Empire and Western Europe, torn between Reformation and Counter-Reformation, was of an exceptional character. This country became what Cardinal Stanislaus Hosius called “a place of shelter for heretics”. It was a place where the most radical religious sects, trying to escape persecution in other countries of the Christian world, sought refuge. All religious sects in Poland enjoyed tolerance as such was the King’s will. The confederation officially legalized this situation and introduced the rule of peaceful co-existence for nobles of all denominations."

Polish history is amazing. :) We had everything other european countries start to learn.

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Nov 14, 08, 20:54 #30

adrian11224:

Why doesn't Poland just stop giving money to the Roman Catholic church

Poland doesn;t give money to RC. People do. That's their own money and that's nobody's fvcking business what people do with their money. That principle is valid for other countries, such as the US of A where people give huge amount of money to various religious cults.

Bottom line, fix your home first before fixing others'.

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