Ruski a slur like Pollack?

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 19:00 #1
A court case is under way in Kielce to determine whether 'Rusek', 'Ruska' and 'Ruski' are ethnic slurs punishable by law in Poland. This akin to the situation of Pollack in the USA, since 'ruski' is a neutral term in Russian but pejorative in Polish. http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul146321_court-to-decide-if-ruski- is-ethnic-term-of-abuse-in-poland.html

PlatoThreads: - Posts: 11 Joined: Dec 18, 10 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:06 #2
Yeah it is for me. I wouldn't say rusek to anyone and when I use it to tell somebody about someone, it feels like an insult towards the person I'm telling about.

PolishNutjobThreads: 1 Posts: 101 Joined: Mar 9, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:21 #3
The Polaks in the USA are doing quite well for themselves. Can the Ruskies make the same claim about their fate in Poland among the multicultural, sensitive Polaks?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:32 #4
Polonius3: Ruski' are ethnic slurs That word is neutral not a slur, it's simply an old fashioned way of calling a Russian from when Russia was Kievan Rus PolishNutjob: sensitive Polaks? And in English (once again) Pollack is always offensive, if you're speaking Polish or Russian or some other language where Polak means a Pole then its ok to say it.

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:33 #5
It won,t be long before Brit is seen as an offensive word..!

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:34 #6
Sometimes in small-town east Poland it can be used perjoratively against someone, maybe orthodox by religion.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Dec 28, 10, 20:37 #7
PennBoy: That word is neutral not a slur, right, "Kacap" is a slur, lol I heard one of my friends saying it while in Poland and it sounded so funny that I still remember it.

♂

Edited by: PennBoy Dec 28, 10, 20:40 #8

jonni:

Sometimes in small-town east Poland it can be used perjoratively against someone

That's only because some Poles are prejudice against Russians and they say Ruski angrily, but this is mostly the older folk or some dimwit. Right guesswho, Kacap is very offensive, funny how a Russian friend of mine explained to me that Kacap (Russian) and Hahol (Ukrainian) come from the hairstyles that men used to have hundreds of years ago like Cossacks with the hair up.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:43 #9
PennBoy: this is mostly the older folk or some dimwit. A bit of that, but you get it in villages near borders everywhere, Poles or not.

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Edited by: Paulina Dec 28, 10, 20:45 #10

Plato:

Yeah it is for me.

For me also.

Plato:

I wouldn't say rusek to anyone and when I use it to tell somebody about someone, it feels like an insult towards the person I'm telling about.

Yes, I wouldn't say "rusek" to anyone either and I wouldn't use this word behind their back.

PennBoy:

That word is neutral not a slur, it's simply an old fashioned way of calling a Russian from when Russia was Kievan Rus

Are you sure? Maybe ask Russians living in Poland what they think about this word.

PennBoy:

And in English (once again) Pollack is always offensive, if you're speaking Polish or Russian or some other language where Polak means a Pole then its ok to say it.

LOL

Oh but Americans also claim that Polack "is neutral not a slur" and everything depends on the context :)

A Russian guy posted a link to the article in Polish about it on one blog:
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,8873773,Kogo_obraza_slo wo__Ruska___Czy_proces_zmieni_ludzi.html

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Dec 28, 10, 20:46 #11

I think "Ruski" has got offensive meaning. of course it depends on intonation and intention :).
Some phrases aren't so offensive like "ruski miesiąc" ("russian month") - which means that sth takes a long time. It's used in polish language without negative meaning.
But generally it's offensive and the term "ruski" it hasn't got polish origin but russian. In polish should be "rosyjski". If we wanna say that sth is russian we should use "rosyjski".That's why "ruski" is rude, impolite

♂

Dec 28, 10, 20:50 #12

PennBoy:

old fashioned way of calling a Russian from when Russia was Kievan Rus

The historic context might be present, but it just feels degrading when you use it and I would allways use "Rosjanin" in "official" area.

"jebany Rosjanin" - 4 results in Google
"jebany Rusek" - 354 results in Google

And it's not because we are more pissed about the Kievian Rus than about the Tsarian/Soviet Russians

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:57 #13
Pierogi ruskie?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 20:58 #14
Paulina: A Russian guy posted a link to the article in Polish about it on one blog Well if they feel like it's offensive maybe they should change it, the Polish word for Gypsy Cygan (same also in Russian) became offensive since Cygan is slang for liar, so they prefer to be called Roma.

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Edited by: Paulina Dec 28, 10, 20:59 #15

SeanBM:

Pierogi ruskie?

This name is derived from Ruś Czerwona (Red Ruthenia), not from Russia (Rosja):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ruthenia

PennBoy:

Well if they feel like it's offensive maybe they should change it, the Polish word for Gypsy Cygan (same also in Russian) became offensive since Cygan is slang for liar, so they prefer to be called Roma.

I don't follow articles and news that much, but one Pole claims that in Polish newspapers and on TV they're already replacing "Cyganie" with "Romowie".

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Dec 28, 10, 21:08 #16
Paulina: This name is derived from Ruś Czerwona (Red Ruthenia), not from Russia (Rosja): Ha! Thanks, I always thought it was like Russian style pierogi, what about Chicken Kiev? :)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 21:14 #17
Blacks or Arabs getting beat up, people making monkey chants, or white power writen on blocks that's offensive, not being called Ruski a neutral word.

PaulinaThreads: 2 Posts: 561 Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀	Edited by: Moderator Dec 28, 10, 21:18 #18
PennBoy: Blacks or Arabs getting beat up, people making monkey chants, or white power writen on blocks that's offensive, not being called Ruski a neutral word. PennBoy, you don't live in Poland, do you?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 21:23 #19
Paulina: PennBoy, you don't live in Poland, do you? Nope not any more, used to in Stalowa Wola. All i'm saying is I hardly remember anyone ever using the word Rosjanin always Ruski and it wasn't a bad word at all.

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Edited by: Paulina Dec 28, 10, 21:33 #20

PennBoy:

Nope not any more, used to in Stalowa Wola. All i'm saying is I hardly remember anyone ever using the word Rosjanin always Ruski and it wasn't a bad word at all.

PennBoy, I also wasn't paying any attention to this word until I started discussing with Russians. After that I suddenly started to notice it and pay attention how it's used and why.
Remember that there was a time when antisemitism and calling someone "Żydek" was something normal and nothing out of the ordinary...
I know that Poles often say that it's just a "zdrobnienie" or "potoczne słowo", but why won't they call Russians like that in the face? You ever wondered why?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 21:48 #21
Paulina: Żyd From what i've heard Żyd is offensive now in Russia. And i did notice twice from Russians when i called them Ruski they got mad, but since i never used it offensively in Poland it was normal to say that, i just figured they're overreacting.

♂

Dec 28, 10, 21:53 #22

Paulina:

in the face

Also, I might add to what you say, it doesn't matter what you feel or how you interpret the words you are using, it is how the person about whom you are talking takes it. I might say: "Hey Polack!" meaning "hey a guy from Poland" and nothing else, no hatred, not for fun. But how the guy I am talking to will take it? So it is not about what the sayer feels - nobody gives a dime what is in the head of the talker. If people to whom you refer consider it offensive, then it is offensive.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,834 Joined: Apr 11, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 21:55 #23
The standard Russian word for Jew (in Polish transliteration) is Iwrej. Żyd is standard in Polish but in Russian it means something like Kike, Hymie, Jewboy, etc..

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Edited by: Paulina Dec 28, 10, 21:59 #24

PennBoy:

From what i've heard Żyd is offensive now in Russia.

So? What's your point? If someone in Russia is an antisemite it means Poles are allowed to be offensive to all Russians?

PennBoy:

And i did notice twice from Russians when i called them Ruski they got mad, but since i never used it offensively in Poland it was normal to say that, i just figured they're overreacting.

Was it in Poland?
Well, I would say they weren't overreacting. Poles' attitude towards Russians and Russia + calling them "Ruscy/Ruski/Ruska" = a very unpleasant mix for Russians.

Nathan:

Also, I might add to what you say, it doesn't matter what you feel or how you interpret the words you are using, it is how the person about whom you are talking takes it. I might say: "Hey Polack!" meaning "hey a guy from Poland" and nothing else, no hatred, not for fun. But how the guy I am talking to will take it? So it is not about what the sayer feels - nobody gives a dime what is in the head of the talker. If people to whom you refer consider it offensive, then it is offensive.

Um... I would say completely the other way around.

♂

Dec 28, 10, 22:08 #25

Paulina:

Was it in Poland?
Well, I would say they weren't overreacting. Poles attitude towards Russians and Russia + calling them "Ruscy/Ruski/Ruska" = a very unpleasant mix for Russians.

I have nothing against Russians i have Russian friends i dated a Russian girl few years back, I just said i've never used it offensively nor most people in Poland, it was just an another way of saying Rosjanin, neutral.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 22:09 #26
Żyd itself is not so offensive but is with the right intonation. Ruski is just an easy slang word for me :)

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Dec 28, 10, 22:35 #27

PennBoy:

I have nothing against Russians i have Russian friends i dated a Russian girl few years back, I just said i've never used it offensively nor most people in Poland, it was just an another way of saying Rosjanin, neutral.

The problem is that word "Ruski/Ruska/Ruscy" is associated with the attitude of Poles towards Russians and Russia and I think it quite often stems from it. Not always, not in your case, but quite often it does.
By "attitude" I mean this: http://fakty.interia.pl/tylko_u_nas/news/ida-ruscy-barbarzyncy,1118603 ,3439

And the "attitude" as shown in this quote from the article:

Ulrich opowiada jak pewnego dnia jechał busem do Mniowa na dyżury terapeutyczne. - Jakoś tak zeszła rozmowa na temat Luby. I ci ludzie, do obcego w końcu mężczyzny, jakim dla nich byłem, w ogóle się nie krępowali. Ruska to, ruska tamto, epitety, pamiętam ten rechot Leppera w całym busie. Wtedy zrozumiałem, jak Luba może się czuć na tej wsi - opowiada.

Even in Polish dictionaries this word is described as "disrespectful" ("lekceważący"):
http://sjp.pwn.pl/slownik/2518189/rusek

I've noticed that Russians tolerate this word only when it's coming from some hardcore rusophiles.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 22:56 #28
wildrover: It won,t be long before Brit is seen as an offensive word..! It is,in context,from a Yank its fair enough,from an Irishmen it holds far deeper meanings. Isnt Moskaly the offensive term,surely not the russian for russian?

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 23:10 #29
isthatu2: It is,in context,from a Yank its fair enough, What about Yanks...is that offensive...?

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 23:12 #30
wildrover: What about Yanks...is that offensive...? To anyone south of the mason dixon I imagine :) But I dont hear anyone bleeping out the words to "Over There" or Yankke Doodle Dandy....

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