Can Russia be a good partner for Poland?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 03:03 #1
It is simple enough question, I know that Poland can work well with Russia. However, less certain is Russian standing on the issue! Would they be willing to offer good bargain or rather went back into old track of domination and intimidation? What do you think? Discus !

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Dec 28, 10, 03:07 #2
I would need examples of Russia behaving diplomatically to believe that can work... They still believe they are the Titans... and I believe that would be the nature of any relationship with a smaller economic might like Poland. What would Russia gain from such genuinely diplomatic ties?

♂

Edited by: jonni Dec 28, 10, 03:09 #3

Ironside:

domination and intimidation?

That's largely how the Russians do business with other countries. Especially neighbouring ones. But a strong (and stable) Poland, especially one that is part of the EU, as well as proactive diplomatic policies on the part of the world's major countries towards Russia can only strengthen Poland's position within the relationship.

Ashleys mind:

I would need examples of Russia behaving diplomatically to believe that can work...

Exactly.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 03:34 #4
Ashleys mind: What would Russia gain from such genuinely diplomatic ties? They could gain secure control of the eastern Europe. Question - are they able to go against 300 years of diplomatic tradition ?

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 05:25 #5
What do you guys think about France selling two warships to Russia? Has anyone heard about this recently?

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Edited by: Ashleys mind Dec 28, 10, 09:27 #6

Ironside:

They could gain secure control of the eastern Europe. Question - are they able to go against 300 years of diplomatic tradition ?

Ok, so what would Poland gain from it...? It would be a relationship based on fear and ransom as no doubt it would make Poland more dependent on Russia's resources... the ultimate foundation for any diplomatic engagement. Diplomacy is only the staple of interdependent relationships.

rychlik:

What do you guys think about France selling two warships to Russia?

Two more reasons not to f*ck with Russia?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 12:23 #7
Ashleys mind: It would be a relationship based on fear and ransom Maybe but then again if Russia change approach ? Would that be possible ? Ashleys mind: Ok, so what would Poland gain from it...? Internal freedom :)

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Dec 28, 10, 12:45 #8

Ironside:

Internal freedom :)

That would be schizophrenic... Poland would NEVER look to Russia for a sense of freedom... it just doesn't make sense. Them wounds are still too fresh and Poland is commanding quite a place in the EU for the time being.

Ironside:

Maybe but then again if Russia change approach ? Would that be possible ?

Um, anything is possible, but in this case it's highly improbable. Russia spits on mighty superpowers let alone previous soviet satellites...

In our lifetimes this will never happen... and a history of failure and ruin has created a bitter tension at best between these two countries.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,955 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 13:11 #9
Ironside: Can Russia be a good partner for Poland? Probably in energetic role.

kondziorThreads: 2 Posts: 441 Joined: Oct 16, 09 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 14:19 #10
Hell no! Russia is a good partner for no one. I have tried to make buisness with Russians once. The biggest setback in my entire life. Hell, if I had figured out what they are up to a one day latter, I'd be begging on the streets today. Or maybe rather washing dishes in UK ;-) Death to the Russia!

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Edited by: Ironside Dec 28, 10, 14:23 #11

Ashleys mind:

a history of failure and ruin has created a bitter tension at best between these two countries.

I think those tensions and feelings are overplayed, or used by others sometimes :P

Ashleys mind:

Poland would NEVER look to Russia for a sense of freedom... it just doesn't make sense.

Well, maybe not ......however there is always a possibility however slim !

Ashleys mind:

Them wounds are still too fresh

Interest of both country's would be on stake, problem is ; can Russia understand that and act accordingly ?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 14:40 #12
I think Putin sees a weak PM and President in Tusk and Kommie. They would acquiesce to his demands and you wouldn't see a partnership anything like the same as partnerships in the eyes of the law (business partnerships). International partnerships are fraught with pitfalls.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 14:43 #13
There never has and never will be an equal partnership between two nations, sure tempory aliances can be forged but sooner or later one wants what the other cant or wont give and it all goes pear shaped.

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Dec 28, 10, 14:58 #14

I think that about sums it up. It's so hard to build and consolidate when business is concerned. Just look at how business wormed its way into climate change concerns. Around the time of the Single European Act (1987), the buzzwords were 'sustainable development'. There was an awareness that they should pursue that but hawks in business soon sought to profit and what appeared to be a noble approach soon changed. The Russian govt is devious and wouldn't place themselves on an even footing. A level playing field doesn't hold much weight for them and many Russians will tell you the same.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 15:04 #15
Seems to me that unlesss you are the obvious dominating partner your only ever going to get the fuzzy end of the loilipop. Cuddling up to the big man on the block and telling your people that theres a "true partnership" will only end with egg on the polititions face and bodies coming home in boxes......

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Edited by: Ashleys mind Dec 28, 10, 15:10 #16

Ironside:

I think those tensions and feelings are overplayed, or used by others sometimes

Well it's true that at least they have a history together... :S

Ironside:

Well, maybe not ......however there is always a possibility however slim

Do you plan on being the foreign diplomat?

Ironside:

Interest of both country's would be on stake, problem is ; can Russia understand that and act accordingly

The interest of Poland is peace and prosperity (finally.)
Can stronger ties with Russia offer that? Not necessarily. They may be able to help broker more favourable trade deals with the Chinese but it may also get them more involved in the whole North Korea debacle at some point in the future which wouldn't be wise... especially as Russia is not aligned with the EU where foreign policy is concerned.

Russia are simply too hot to handle...

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Dec 28, 10, 15:10 #17

I don't think that Tusk would react to egg yolk like John Prescott did ;) ;)

We have to take the recent response of Tusk as significant. He said that the Russians produced insufficient evidence from the Smoleńsk inquiry. That strikes me as strange given that Rzepa and Szeremet were happy with the level of cooperation. The will for cooperation could be there in the future but suspicion is rife and there needs to be some dropping of the guard.

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Dec 28, 10, 15:42 #18

Lol,Lord Prescot,class warrior,you shall be missed. (ive actually a lot of respect for this guy in that politically neutral way i can tip my hat to ann widdicombe and nigel farrage..)
I dont know,regarding Tusk,it must be a heck of a fine line being a leader who seems naturaly progressive in what must be the equivelent enviroment of Obama comming out and saying so what Im a socialist,live with it...
The debate about the crash is covered else where,I dont think it will ever die,its 67 years since Anthony Quale said goodbye to a certain Polish politicion and the conspiricy theories are still rife(and to be honest the water is still as musrky).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 28, 10, 16:15 #19
Needless to say, the pendulum can swing through American intervention alone. Kowtowing in the name of cordial relations is only going to anger Russia. America has once again got involved in the spying case in Russia and Poland has done well to stay out of it. Tusk cannot fire too many arrows at Putin and that increases the chances of future partnership.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 1, 11, 19:40 #20
Seanus: Needless to say, the pendulum can swing through American intervention alone Needless to say USA hopes to got support so called friendly powers - which include Russia. In hope to counterweight China power and maybe to influence and estrange Iran.

AdamKadmonThreads: 38 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂	Jan 1, 11, 19:49 #21
Ironside: In hope to counterweight China power and maybe to influence and estrange Iran. Why to waste your time to write about things you have no knowledge of?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 1, 11, 20:24 #22
AdamKadmon: Why to waste your time to write about things you have no knowledge of? If thats all you have to say my answer is - **** off smart pants !

AdamKadmonThreads: 38 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂	Jan 1, 11, 20:31 #23
Ironside: **** off smart pants ! I see diplomacy is not your strong point either!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Jan 1, 11, 20:37 #24
AdamKadmon: I see diplomacy is not your strong point either! Whats your point? I don't like fukers beating about a bush, have something to say on the subject - why don't you say it ? And diplomacy is used when you want something you cannot get otherwise ! From you I want or expect - nothing ! So kiss my backside !

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Jan 1, 11, 21:03 #25

Ironside and AdamKadmon
You are both great, and your discussion is even greater then You are and the most interesting in the thread so far!
:)
Poland has to be a good partner for Russia as well as Russia should be a good partner for Poland because of a very simple reason: we are neighbors and our history causes we will be always connected with each other very closely. I'd answer Ironside's question: Yeah, we can be good partners, but better for us will be when we just think that we have to be or we must be with good advantages for both sides.
:)
Simple, isn't it? Don't complicate the topic very much, guys.

♂

Jan 2, 11, 06:14 #26

noreenb:

Poland has to be a good partner for Russia as well as Russia should be a good partner for Poland because of a very simple reason: we are neighbors and our history causes we will be always connected with each other very closely. I'd answer Ironside's question: Yeah, we can be good partners, but better for us will be when we just think that we have to be or we must be with good advantages for both sides.
:)
Simple, isn't it? Don't complicate the topic very much, guys.

Poland and Russia? Impossible! Poland and Russia have too many competing interests to be allies. Yes, the problem is they are neighbors! For instance, Poland needs natural gas. Poland would be better off buying nat gas from another country that has no competing interest with Poland (Norway). Poland should steer clear of Russia, nothing but trouble. Just look at history.

noreenbThreads: 4 Posts: 1,082 Joined: Apr 22, 09 ♀	Jan 2, 11, 11:17 #27
Chicago Pollock Poland should steer clear of Russia, nothing but trouble. Just look at history. Well, yes, of course, but for both countries would be better if we were able to discuss and maybe if not forget about past than at least be able to discuss constructively and perfectly "pretend" that we are good partners at, for example, economical matters.

zeina4uThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Jan 2, 11 ♀	Jan 2, 11, 11:18 #28
Well, yes, of course, but for both countries would be better if we were able to discuss and maybe if not forget about past than at least be able to discuss constructively and perfectly "pretend" that we are good partners at, for example, economical matters.

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Jan 2, 11, 12:05 #29

noreenb:

Well, yes, of course, but for both countries would be better if we were able to discuss and maybe if not forget about past than at least be able to discuss constructively and perfectly "pretend" that we are good partners at, for example, economical matters.

zeina4u:

Well, yes, of course, but for both countries would be better if we were able to discuss and maybe if not forget about past than at least be able to discuss constructively and perfectly "pretend" that we are good partners at, for example, economical matters.

Great minds...??

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Edited by: noreenb Jan 2, 11, 12:18 #30

Ashleys mind
Great minds...??

Well, thank you.
:)
King Stanisław August Poniatowski wanted to stop acting against Russia, some Russian diplomats then considered Poland would be a good partner in "political games" on European arena but unfortunately their point of view didn't played a big role then.
I think many times in the past Poland wanted to become a good Russia's partner, but a good will is many times not everything what will lead to successes for both sides.

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