4th Polish Republic may re-emerge

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Edited by: gumishu Sep 16, 11, 11:45 #61

Gumishu, ple..e..e..a..s..e. What makes you think that I lack any sophisticated sense of humour - which apparently, you think, you display in abundance? If you have in mind the one displayable by your beloved leader Jaroslaw Kaczyński than I say - oh-ho-ho-ho - and I will readily admit I have no clue what he is talking about. And that's all fine, you won. I am going to continue having no clue.

actually I am not assuming that much about you pal - I'm only sort of assuming you live abroad (I believe I have seen you writing about it one day here on the forum) - ok I'm also assuming you don't follow Polish politics on a daily basis (especially through the TV) - and my point is it really makes a difference - you have your prejudices against Kaczyński - well, it's allright - but I still believe you are not able to grasp much of Kaczyńskis sense of humour - not because you are not sophisticated but because you don't know the man well enough - you just take everything you read about Kaczyński and what Kaczyński says as dead serious I presume

btw do I claim is a witty, bright merry guy? - not very much I'd say - but stating Kaczyński has not got a sense of humour is just false - I can positively confirm he has one - sure there will be millions of people who claim otherwise (but then I believe most of them are prejudiced or don't have enough exposure ;)

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Sep 16, 11, 12:04 #62

by your beloved leader Jaroslaw Kaczyński

now you are assuming quite a lot about me - I respect Kaczyński even though I have seen him make incredulous political mistakes (on the verge of a political suicide and actually quite recently) - but no Kaczyński is not my beloved leader - and I don't think he's a genius of politics either (those mistakes - plenty of them - like saying things he really thinks sometimes without much consideration that are easily turned around against him)

I respect Kaczyński because I believe he's sincere in his attempts at making Poland a better country (and the most logical way to do it is to make it to the government don't you think) - and I respect him because I tend to agree with most of his diagnoses of Poland's ills

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Sep 16, 11, 13:06 #63
I respect Kaczyński because I believe he's sincere in his attempts at making Poland a better country (and the most logical way to do it is to make it to the government don't you think) - and I respect him because I tend to agree with most of his diagnoses of Poland's ills So according to your logic, sincerity trumps competence?

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Sep 16, 11, 17:21 #64

So according to your logic, sincerity trumps competence?

is PO government any more competent - letting shipbuilding industry down the drain (with some PO members actually scavenging on it), not being able to create good documentations and then proper financing for the motorways for EURO 2012 - key elements will be missing - should I mention some exorbitant promises Tusk made before the previous elections - like a laptop for every pupil in Polish school? During his expose in 2007 which broke all world records of duration (over 3 hours) Tusk promised almost everything to everyone (they around 100 individual more or less specific promises were included ) - Tusk personally criticised Kaczyński on the issue of installing more speed cameras saying that only someone who does not drive daily makes such policies - then during 3 years of PO government the number of speed cameras doubled

more competence? - there is almost 1:1 ratio of privates to officers in Polish now fully profesional army - there is not enough money simply to hire more people - National Reserve Service has been created to amend the lack of obligatory service (during the last years of this so called obligatory service less than 50 per cent of those elligible were actually drafted) - the NSR (Nardowa Służba Rezerwowa) is so badly thought out and implemented they have never reached 50 per cent of the human force they were envisioned for - there is one general in Poland per less then 1000 soldiers - you would think they do have decent wages - and you are right they do - the beaureaucracy in the military is almost unbelieveable - there is 1.5 of a beaurocrat per 1 soldier in the Polish army (250 000 on MON wages while the fighting force consists of around 100 000 people) - minister Klich anounced reductions of the military beaurocracy in 2009 (if not earlier) - but actually did very little if anything to further that goal

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Sep 16, 11, 17:33 #65
So according to your logic, sincerity trumps competence? Competence in what exactly?propaganda ?

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Sep 16, 11, 21:53 #66

=gumishu]
now translate these figures into PLN (the 1990 budget earnings were ca. 200 Polish billions of złotys then (200 American quadrillions I guess) - dollar costed around 10 000 złoty - so you have a budget of around 20 billion dollars (20 milliards of dollars) - I don't take into account the deficit run by the state treasury that year cause I haven't found it but I guess it couldn't have been more than 10 per cent of the state incomes/earnings - the top figure of 10 billion of dollars that were presumably malversated in Bank Handlowy operations were then more than 40 per cent of the actual budget of the Polish state (with the lowest 5 billion dollars accounting to some 23 per cent of the budget of 1990) - so my GUESS was actually quite accurate

Ooops, yes, of course you are right. I made a mistake - somehow I thought we were talking about Polish GNP, not a budget. .

Really sorry for that, you were professional with your figures after all while I was too hasty. Forgive me, please.

Good job, Gumishu. :):):):)

BTW, Poland has done a good job too. 21 years ago the budget was 20 billion, today it is about 120.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Sep 16, 11, 22:57 #67
Maybe it's time for PiS to resume its unfinished campaign of sweeping away scam artistis, corrupt bsuienssmen and SB hold-overs. I thought they just created coalition governments with them.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,398 Joined: May 30, 08 ♂	Sep 16, 11, 23:25 #68
=Trevek] Maybe it's time for PiS to resume its unfinished campaign of sweeping away scam artistis, corrupt bsuienssmen and SB hold-overs. I thought they just created coalition governments with them. ::):):) Very well said. It happened in 2007 when PiS invited Samoobrona to its government.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂	Sep 17, 11, 00:03 #69
Trevek observed: I thought they just created coalition governments with them. WIN!!!!

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Sep 17, 11, 12:09 #70

Very well said. It happened in 2007 when PiS invited Samoobrona to its government.

Exactly, and during one of the debates with Tusk, when the matter of PiS using the police against political adversaries, Kaczyński joked about having the surveillance on Samoobrona from before they went into coalition with them. Tusk didn't pick up on it but he might have asked why, if K felt that way about them, was a PiS government prepared to allow people they thought were crooks into government and into positions of major power.

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