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Turkey, Japan, Poland and Mexico will be the new super powers.


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TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Jun 26, 09, 19:19    #61
Wroclaw Boy:
its a trait so far inbred in Polish society its not going to be erradicated for a long, long time.

I feel sorry for you, because apparently you met some dishonest Poles during
your stay in our country. You seem to be drawing far going conclusions as to
the entire Polish society based only on your personal experience, which is not
very sensible.

I assure you that there are many dishonest people in UK or Ireland too and I
myself and my friends have encountered some of them while working abroad.
However, I would never go as far as saying that dishonesty is somehow inbred
in British or Irish societies.

Wroclaw Boy:
another problem with the Poles: sense of humour.

LOL

True - I never found Benny Hill funny.

Wroclaw Boy  Jun 26, 09, 19:28    #62
Torq:
I assure you that there are many dishonest people in UK or Ireland too and I
myself and my friends have encountered some of them while working abroad.

Im sure there were, you and your friends would have been vulnerable and i know of many scams aimed at such visitors many i might add ran by Poles them selves.

Torq:
You seem to be drawing far going conclusions as to
the entire Polish society based only on your personal experience, which is not
very sensible.

Sweeping generalisations, perhaps im guilty of that. Ive met many honest and great Polish people in Poland. In business you meet the scum of the Earth - down right trechorous money hungry individuals, thats the same the World over.

Torq:
I would never go as far as saying that dishonesty is somehow inbred
in British or Irish societies.

Respect where its due, i will try to refrain in the future no matter how hard this may be.
TorqThreads: 65
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Edited by: Torq  Jun 26, 09, 19:39    #63
Wroclaw Boy:
I like Poland in many ways, but in so many others quite the contrary

Wroclaw Boy:
Ive met many honest and great Polish people in Poland.

Wait a minute, Wroclaw Boy - it looks like:

- you like and dislike Poland at the same time,
- complain about the state of Polish roads,
- do not hold your business partners in a very high regard,
- don't like Jews very much.

May I ask how many years have you spent in Poland, because it looks
like we managed to turn you into one of us LOL

;)
Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Jun 26, 09, 20:02    #64
Torq:
Wait a minute, Wroclaw Boy - it looks like:

- you like and dislike Poland at the same time,
- complain about the state of Polish roads,
- do not hold your business partners in a very high regard,
- don't like Jews very much.

May I ask how many years have you spent in Poland, because it looks
like we managed to turn you into one of us LOL

;)

True, some mornings i wake up and the first word that comes to mind is Kurwa.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Edited by: Seanus  Jun 26, 09, 21:09    #65
Poland as a superpower, that would be the 8th wonder of the world. Vetos galore would be the norm!

First off, we need a definition of superpower. Anyone gonna come forward and offer a definition? I have mine.

WB, I don't think your wife would be too happy about that ;)
Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Jun 27, 09, 14:44    #66
Torq:
Wroclaw Boy:
another problem with the Poles: sense of humour.

LOL

True - I never found Benny Hill funny.

me neither, many Poles ive met loved him though. My wifes father is always on about him. just cant see the funny side myself at all.

I expect Southern likes him.

Torq:
May I ask how many years have you spent in Poland, because it looks
like we managed to turn you into one of us LOL

Once you hit the three year marker its all in a days life. No problem.
HidayetThreads: -
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 Jul 18, 09, 13:21    #67
"ha-ha turkey is superpower, ha-ha...it is already superpower. Superpower of gastarbaiters !!!"

I'm the answer:

1-You is not on, we were dominating the world.
2-Do you have a few years of the date of Turk news?
3-Yes, turkey will superpower.

They can look at :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_empire
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 19, 09, 03:12    #68
So i've read the book in detail, the guy makes some good points but mostly its rubbish, his book in a nutshell.

Russia gets better, US becomes Polands pimp and Poland happily takes the money and politically dukes it out with Russia, Russia fails, Poland partitions Russia together with other superpowers like Hungary and Romania.

Then Poland, America and said countries fight against Turkey and Germany, pwn and all is well, Poland builds an empire which alone has more balls than all of Europe put together while USA colonizes the moon only to be outbreeded by Mexicans (who will become an awesome superpower and breed like rabbits on crack).

The book ends with superpower Poland unhappy with US not allowing it to build moonbases and brewing a confrontation between it and America.

China falls over and dies mysteriously, India too, Japan becomes awesome but apparently not as awesome as Poland because America wont be helping them as much.

Ps. i shyt you not about moonbases thing.

The guy is apparently a typical American redneck, he might have a degree and lead a thinktank but he's still a dumb hillbilly, his book could be used as an argument for "why Americans are fuking stupid".

Oh yeah, there's also space wars, lasers, robots and shyt, 50% of book is US masturbation and the other 50% is masturbation over apparently randomly chosen states that get US help, he did stop short of US building a death star though.
rockThreads: 5
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 Jul 19, 09, 13:27    #69
Sokrates:
Sokrates

Thanks for your comments Sokrates.
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
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Edited by: Pan Kazimierz  Jul 26, 09, 14:31    #70
Wroclaw Boy:
Polotics and religion dont mix although it remains the underlying fundamental just not broadcasted too much.

You must mean, 'politics and religion don't mix openly'. Hah. Religion and politics mix, you just don't tell people when they do because you'll lose your non-religious/differently religious supporters.

Torq:
Fuckinhell - where did you get that idea??? I am 100% patriotic, Catholic-conservative
Pole and proud of it! FFS - the Radio Maryja family are a bunch of liberals and modernists
compared to me!

I'll drink to that. Cheers!

And, yeah... Mexico... superpower... sure...
If this guy's logic of 'superpower falls therefore it's neighbors become superpowers', Canada would be the answer. Except that such logic fails, so nevermind. Too bad, that.
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 26, 09, 17:12    #71
I stand corrected, in the book USA builds battlestars which are destroyed by Japan.
MatowyThreads: 1
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 Jul 26, 09, 17:41    #72
Sokrates:
So i've read the book in detail, the guy makes some good points but mostly its rubbish, his book in a nutshell.

Russia gets better, US becomes Polands pimp and Poland happily takes the money and politically dukes it out with Russia, Russia fails, Poland partitions Russia together with other superpowers like Hungary and Romania.

Then Poland, America and said countries fight against Turkey and Germany, pwn and all is well, Poland builds an empire which alone has more balls than all of Europe put together while USA colonizes the moon only to be outbreeded by Mexicans (who will become an awesome superpower and breed like rabbits on crack).

The book ends with superpower Poland unhappy with US not allowing it to build moonbases and brewing a confrontation between it and America.

China falls over and dies mysteriously, India too, Japan becomes awesome but apparently not as awesome as Poland because America wont be helping them as much.

Ps. i shyt you not about moonbases thing.

The guy is apparently a typical American redneck, he might have a degree and lead a thinktank but he's still a dumb hillbilly, his book could be used as an argument for "why Americans are fuking stupid".

Oh yeah, there's also space wars, lasers, robots and shyt, 50% of book is US masturbation and the other 50% is masturbation over apparently randomly chosen states that get US help, he did stop short of US building a death star though.

Haha! Nice review. That just made my day.

Torq:
Come back then and tell me if you still think that Turkey
is "Super Kebabs but thats about it".

To be fair, the most amazing kebabs I've ever tasted were Turkish. I really don't see any downsides to Turkey being in the E.U. Turkish people are gorgeous, and their food is equally so. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to millions of them spreading throughout the E.U ;)
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 Jul 26, 09, 20:18    #73
Sokrates:
So i've read the book in detail, the guy makes some good points but mostly its rubbish, his book in a nutshell.

Sokrates:
The guy is apparently a typical American redneck, he might have a degree and lead a thinktank but he's still a dumb hillbilly, his book could be used as an argument for "why Americans are fuking stupid".

This book may discredit his organization in eyes of serious readers. However perhaps he is not so stupid after all? He proofed that this is possible to write completely ridiculous book and still there will be many people willing to buy it. He achieved this practically without any promotion campaign. He had nothing interesting to say, neither proper knowledge but still managed to lighten your purse. :)
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 27, 09, 10:12    #74
lesser:
However perhaps he is not so stupid after all?

I said he get some things right, for example the emergence of Poland as a regional power is likely due to Germany and Russia starting to decline, thats historicaly proven for the region that when Germany and Russia were lacking, Poland was the power, when Poland weakened they took power.

So Poland a regional power like Germany today? Why not. Poland as an Empire which has borders deep in today's Russia, i dont think so.

Also absolutely pointless were his silly stories about space battles, spaceships, powered armored infantry etc, at one point it turned into hard sci-fi.
lesser:
He achieved this practically without any promotion campaign.

His book got some light in Europe because it treats about Europe, got lots of attention in Poland because he claims we're going to be the next best thing after the Empire from Star Wars but in US its relatively unknown.
lesser:
neither proper knowledge but still managed to lighten your purse. :)

I borrowed it from a friend, HA! :)
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
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Edited by: Pan Kazimierz  Jul 27, 09, 12:01    #75
Sokrates:
I stand corrected, in the book USA builds battlestars which are destroyed by Japan.

Well, at least it's badassed. Now, I might just - borrow it from a library - just because this guy's universe seems so much cooler and more awesome than our own.

lesser:
This book may discredit his organization in eyes of serious readers. However perhaps he is not so stupid after all? He proofed that this is possible to write completely ridiculous book and still there will be many people willing to buy it. He achieved this practically without any promotion campaign. He had nothing interesting to say, neither proper knowledge but still managed to lighten your purse. :)

I can't see how that makes him any better than Dan Brown.

Sokrates:
So Poland a regional power like Germany today? Why not. Poland as an Empire which has borders deep in today's Russia, i dont think so.

Right... I don't see that the majority of Poles are really interested in Russian territory at this point.
SokratesThreads: 19
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Edited by: Sokrates  Jul 27, 09, 12:15    #76
Pan Kazimierz:
Well, at least it's badassed. Now, I might just - borrow it from a library - just because this guy's universe seems so much cooler and more awesome than our own.

Do it, its an awesome book if you dont approach it seriously.
Pan Kazimierz:
Right... I don't see that the majority of Poles are really interested in Russian territory at this point.

Thats one of the few valid points the guy makes, Russia is likely to fail as a state in near (30-60 years) future, their economy is based purely on exporting finite resources and their society is made completely utterly static and incapable of reforming through being communist for the better part of the century.

IF Russia indeed fails economicallly and ceases to exist as a political entity Poland is in the position to benefit the most, Ukraine and Belarus are too weak and as time passes the disparity in economic, political and military power between them and Poland will grow greater so Poland might actually aquire some territory but not to the extent he implies, we'll be a nation of 34 milion by then.

Also another valid point he makes, if Russia indeed falls over then the first thing that happens is instability, to have a stable frontier is in our best interests so just securing our eastern borders would be reason enough for intervention.
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
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 Jul 27, 09, 13:01    #77
I agree with the theoretic possibility... but, acquiring new territories isn't exactly the sort of thing that goes unnoticed in Europe these days. It would be rather troublesome to justify the action to the rest of the world, which in the end would probably not even be worth going for. Especially if, as implied, the land's resources have been bled dry. Then Poland gets a bunch of land containing... what? Seems that all that Poland benefits is some more breathing room, in exchange for taking on the territory's inhereted problems and difficulties. Plus ethnic clashes and the like all over again.
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 27, 09, 13:38    #78
Pan Kazimierz:
It would be rather troublesome to justify the action to the rest of the world,

If/when Russia falls apart the entire international order changes to an extent where people will care a lot more about the economic crisis and their regional political impact rather than Poland.
Pan Kazimierz:
Then Poland gets a bunch of land containing... what?

Population and territorial buffer zone as well as a staging base to excersize its influence in the future.
Pan Kazimierz:
more breathing room

The lack of breathing room transformed us from a European power that others feared and respected to a dot on map, in XIV century every noble and scholar knew where Poland is and just how important it is, in Germany and Russia our envoys have been treated above the immidietate neighbours through sheer leverage we posessed, breathing space is not a little thing to have.
Pan Kazimierz:
in exchange for taking on the territory's inhereted problems and difficulties.

I dare say we can govern quite a bit better than Russia, Belarus or Ukraine, our economy and society for one is a good example, and we didnt get US aid like Germany either.
Pan Kazimierz:
Plus ethnic clashes and the like all over again.

Again, in XXI century when we have experience and hindsight we alone have a chance of creating a society of equal opportunity.
Pan KazimierzThreads: 2
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 Jul 27, 09, 14:12    #79
Sokrates:
If/when Russia falls apart the entire international order changes to an extent where people will care a lot more about the economic crisis and their regional political impact rather than Poland.

Okay, makes sense.
Sokrates:
Population and territorial buffer zone as well as a staging base to excersize its influence in the future.

Population that doesn't want to be part of the population, though. i.e. likely an extremely dissenting population, with riots and revolutions and bombs and the like.
Sokrates:
The lack of breathing room transformed us from a European power that others feared and respected to a dot on map, in XIV century every noble and scholar knew where Poland is and just how important it is, in Germany and Russia our envoys have been treated above the immidietate neighbours through sheer leverage we posessed, breathing space is not a little thing to have.

More directly, the population and wealth that came from extensive breathing room. Look where Russia's going, and where Canada and Mexico have never really been. Also Brazil. Territory isn't everything.
Sokrates:
I dare say we can govern quite a bit better than Russia, Belarus or Ukraine, our economy and society for one is a good example, and we didnt get US aid like Germany either.

Probably true, but if they don't want the governing and take severe active steps to fight it, there's just not much that can be accomplished. Take the American Colonies and Great Britain, for example. And those people actually began with considering themselves British.
Sokrates:
Again, in XXI century when we have experience and hindsight we alone have a chance of creating a society of equal opportunity.

But we can only do so much. I can't see ethnic, Russian-speaking Russian people welcoming Polish rule with open arms. Loaded guns, rather.
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 Jul 27, 09, 16:22    #80
Pan Kazimierz:
Population that doesn't want to be part of the population, though. i.e. likely an extremely dissenting population, with riots and revolutions and bombs and the like.

That depends on the country in power, if Germany played properly with us during partitions we'd be germanized by now.
Pan Kazimierz:
Probably true, but if they don't want the governing and take severe active steps to fight it

Which is why you dont come on a high horse conquering people, you offer them an alliance of equals and then change it into a relation in which you lead through your more powerfull economy.

Poland is a natural leader for the region through simple economical dynamics, you dont need to actually conquer people to dominate them and a lot of them can be simply bought, if you buy them smartly.
Pan Kazimierz:
But we can only do so much. I can't see ethnic, Russian-speaking Russian people welcoming Polish rule

Again, Polish domination is not the same as Polish rule, there's places Poland could take over with relative ease like Belarus and no one would mind, including the locals if we did it smart.

Poor people dont mind being a part of a bigger picture if they're given a larger slice of the pie and Belarus doesnt exactly have national entity, as for Russians, if Russia collapses who will they lean on? What will they base their patriotism on?

If Russia fails then a whole lot of trouble will be solvied including serious resistance to any push east, without a focal point the russian speaking masses are there for the taking.

I still remember what Russians said about Hitler and Stalin, we had to pick between two tyrants, we picked the russian speaking one, offer people a better future and they'll jump on the bandwagon.
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 Jul 27, 09, 19:00    #81
Sokrates:
So Poland a regional power like Germany today? Why not.

Even if miraculously both Russia and Germany would become weak there is still a need for Polish leadership to run very decent policy. This is practically impossible, because those people lacking any personal initiative. (add democratic populism!) They get used to do what first Moscow and later Brussels tell them to do. So at best they will copy German mistakes and share their fate. Reading your review, I think that author missing centralisation of the EU. Soon Polish leadership will hardly decide about anything in this state.


Sokrates:
Thats one of the few valid points the guy makes, Russia is likely to fail as a state in near (30-60 years) future, their economy is based purely on exporting finite resources and their society is made completely utterly static and incapable of reforming through being communist for the better part of the century.

True about Russian economy but Brzezinski predicted such outcome long time ago and he was wrong. This is rather wishful thinking. Russia might not be very powerful but it will remain to be an important subject of multi-polarized world. I think that they will liberalise their market more in he future and foreign business only wait for such opportunity. They some strong cards in their hands.

Sokrates:
Also another valid point he makes, if Russia indeed falls over then the first thing that happens is instability, to have a stable frontier is in our best interests so just securing our eastern borders would be reason enough for intervention.

Even if such intervention would happen, this would be never Poland alone. It would be NATO and this means that the US and stronger European states would benefit from this situation. Poland would sent troops, invest cash and get nothing instead as usual.

Pan Kazimierz:
Plus ethnic clashes and the like all over again.

Certainly Ukrainian nationalists are hardly needed here.

Sokrates:
I still remember what Russians said about Hitler and Stalin, we had to pick between two tyrants, we picked the russian speaking one, offer people a better future and they'll jump on the bandwagon.

As I wrote above, Poland is not threatened to be in position to make such offers.
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 27, 09, 21:15    #82
lesser:
Russia might not be very powerful but it will remain to be an important subject of multi-polarized world.

Not if they cease to exist as a state and they will in the event of economic collapse.
lesser:
Even if miraculously both Russia and Germany would become weak there is still a need for Polish leadership to run very decent policy

Thats correct, i'm not saying anything will happen, if there are right people for the job at the correct historical moment than Poland will most likely reinstate itself in its 15 and 16th century position, if not than it will remain more or less a secondary power.
lesser:
I think that they will liberalise their market more in he future and foreign business only wait for such opportunity. They some strong cards in their hands.

Again you fail to grasp what Russia became, thru most of the century they've bred a nation and society of people of a given mindset, Russia is not capable of rapid or drastic reforms, their economy is not diversified and completely reliant on fuel exports, the moment something disrupts those Russia collapses through lack of funds to operate the country.

In fact Russian collapse is not a question of if, its a question of when.
lesser:
They some strong cards in their hands.

They have none, their economy revolves around two kinds of resource without anything to back it up, the nation and society lacks flexibility to go through a meaningfull reform so basically Russia is stuck on gas and oil, both very fragile.
lesser:
Even if such intervention would happen, this would be never Poland alone.

Maybe but Poland is geographically poised to be the largest contributor and major decident.
lesser:
Poland would sent troops, invest cash and get nothing instead as usual.

That depends 100% on Polish politicians, right men could make the east their bytch, current goverment is incapable of anything but thats a scenario for future decades not the present.
lesser:
As I wrote above, Poland is not threatened to be in position to make such offers.

Not now, but if our economy continues to grow and our position to stabilize we will ceirtanly be in such a position in 10/20 years when such events might unfold.
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Edited by: lesser  Jul 27, 09, 21:56    #83
Sokrates:
They have none, their economy revolves around two kinds of resource without anything to back it up, the nation and society lacks flexibility to go through a meaningfull reform so basically Russia is stuck on gas and oil, both very fragile.

You talk in fact about older generations. Neither in Poland they are flexible and etc. Younger people get used to anything and they always must to face everything what coming for the first time.

While Russian leadership which currently went in wrong direction will be forced to change this line. Mind you that they want to save their power, this is their personal interest to do so. Remember that they don't need to bother with democratism so much as we must. What is more public opinion don't really expect anything like that from their direction. Decision process might be quick and easy and this is ideal opportunity to reform the state.

Sokrates:
That depends 100% on Polish politicians, right men could make the east their bytch, current goverment is incapable of anything but thats a scenario for future decades not the present.

People will elect proper statesmen? Sooner cows start to fly...
SokratesThreads: 19
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 Jul 27, 09, 22:01    #84
lesser:
You talk in fact about older generations.

Nope, the younger generations are being raised in the same spirit so they're simply younger versions of their fathers.
lesser:
Neither in Poland they are flexible and etc.

They're flexible allright, just look at how far Poland went from being a communist puppet.
lesser:
While Russian leadership which currently went in wrong direction will be forced to change this line.

Who/what is going to force them?
lesser:
Mind you that they want to save their power,

Yes they do but they're still inflexible descendants of their own past, the best example is their adventure with Ukraine which hurt the European trust and might cost them in the future.
lesser:
Remember that they don't need to bother with democratism so much as we must.

Which is their weakness, democracy favours free market, Russia is, was and will be a centrally directed economy.
lesser:
Decision process is quick and this is ideal opportunity to reform the state.

Any economic reformation in Russia equals eventual fall from power of the ruling class which is why Russia will not change even if its going to hell.
lesser:
People will elect proper statesmen? Sooner cows start to fly...

Times change and Poland with the times, i dont know how old are you or whether you're Polish but if you are you might recall the 90s and now and tell me we're not developing fast.
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 Jul 27, 09, 22:12    #85
Turkey, Japan, Poland and Mexico will be the new super powers.


Sure...Na Zdrowie!
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Edited by: lesser  Jul 27, 09, 23:08    #86
Sokrates:
They're flexible allright, just look at how far Poland went from being a communist puppet.

Yeah, become puppet of Brussels. :)

Sokrates:
Who/what is going to force them?

Bad situation.

Sokrates:
Yes they do but they're still inflexible descendants of their own past, the best example is their adventure with Ukraine which hurt the European trust and might cost them in the future.

Again old folks might be stuck in the past but their time will come to the end soon. I don't say that their younger colleagues are people of very high quality but their will change many things for sure.

While European states never trusted to Russia, they don't even trust to the US. Nerveless in their eyes there is no such state as Ukraine, it was so visible during orange revolution. There were only two states (I don't count any small states) seriously pressuring Russia, the US and Poland. Big European players reaction was very enigmatic, they waited long and were not very happy. Finally their leaders needed to say few words but this is just to fool their home audience.

Europe is interested to do business with Russia, no matter what Poland would figure out. We will see whether they will be able to secure their energetic safety...

Sokrates:
Which is their weakness, democracy favours free market, Russia is, was and will be a centrally directed economy.

Sokrates:
Times change and Poland with the times, i dont know how old are you or whether you're Polish but if you are you might recall the 90s and now and tell me we're not developing fast.

This is just wrong, you need to abandon this Polish centric perspective for as while. Poland went from communist kind of system to so called euro-socialism. This is the road to the right, so progress should be expected.

However look at old democracies, they are becoming socialist nanny states. The EU from free trade agreement evolved to be bureaucratic monster. The US established as a republic (not democracy!) without popular elections was famous from being stronghold of free market. The state however democratized itself and socialized in the same time.

Of course I can proof my point even using IIIRP as an example. Wilczek the last minister of economy of Polish Peoples Republic made a liberal minded reform, if Poland would stay in this way, this state would look much better. But unfortunately nothing like this happened, SLD, UW, AWS and PSL started to copy everything from the west. (Other thing is whether they were paid to do so because western socialists were afraid of competition or this was just post-communist copy-past mentality in action. Perhaps both...) Nevertheless, today Poland have much more bureaucrats than during communist era and in recently published ranking of economic freedom is classified on 82th... How many people is able to even name 82 states?!?

Of course I don't claim that non-democratic political system must be pro-liberal. However such system give at least prospect/ opportunity to run such policy. Democracy is simply the road to socialism. Analyse of political science must lead you to such conclusions.
southernThreads: 116
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 Jul 28, 09, 01:05    #87
rock:
Turkey, Japan, Poland and Mexico will be the new super powers.

It will happen when I wear sobrero.
CrowThreads: 365
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Edited by: Crow  Jul 28, 09, 01:21    #88
southern:
It will happen when I wear sobrero.

it was brutal. But listen...

Poland only in combination with Serbia and Ukraine but, it would be Sarmatia Europae then

it is expected that Ukraine and Serbia support position of Polish language as official language of Sarmatian Alliance and Warsaw for Capitol

What you think Southern is it realistic scenario?

maybe, if Polish language become official on the territory of Alliance, Kiev can get position of Capitol? This could be compromise between Poles and Ukrainians. what you think?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jul 28, 09, 03:20    #89
I've tried to read it...really....but he lost me totally halfways.

A short summary: This book is for every "America the greatest" flag waver as everybody else and his grandma seems to collapse and vanish besides the good 'ol USA of course who get's all the time "younger" and more virile and successful instead.

That's not even an objective analyzis of what could happen or good fiction but the wishful thinking of the author only. I seldom read such crap in one heap...
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,181
Joined: May 28, 09
 Jul 28, 09, 08:34    #90
But on the other hand, what if the guy is a psychic and all this really happens?

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