PolishForums.com
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide
Unanswered | Archives
Polska, Polonia, Poland Witamy, Guest | PF Members | Gold Members

Polish Forums / News, Politics /

Turkey, Japan, Poland and Mexico will be the new super powers.


page 7 of 7:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 posts: 195

NatasaThreads: 7
Posts: 2,607
Joined: Jun 6, 10
 Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER
 Nov 15, 10, 23:33    #181
Mr Grunwald:
1 Serb comments and you start bashing Poles, your not getting anywhere!


Good evening Mr Grunwald!

Why are you here on Turkish coffee thread Mr Grunwald anyway?

turkey will be definitely the superior super power.

stop the earth i want to get off

A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
 Nov 15, 10, 23:55    #182
convex:
no need to project power when you have 130 F35s and 6 state of the art hunter killer subs patrolling your coastal waters...


Ever heard of the Eurofighter Typhoon? Turkey doesn't have those. You might aswell keep every F-35 grounded. Basically only F-22 Raptors can touch it at the highest altitudes. (Sorry!)

;)
MaybeThreads: 7
Posts: 335
Joined: Dec 16, 08
 Nov 15, 10, 23:58    #183
A J:
Ever heard of the Eurofighter Typhoon? Turkey doesn't have those. You might aswell keep every F-35 grounded. Basically only F-22 Raptors can touch it at the highest altitudes.


ok..you lost me are we talking about a computer game or something...
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
 Nov 16, 10, 00:00    #184
Maybe:
ok..you lost me are we talking about a computer game or something...


We're talking about jet-fighters. (And a Shoarma country!)

:)
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09
 Pictures: 2
 Nov 16, 10, 00:09    #185
A J:
Ever heard of the Eurofighter Typhoon? Turkey doesn't have those. You might aswell keep every F-35 grounded. Basically only F-22 Raptors can touch it at the highest altitudes. (Sorry!)

The F35 has a higher ceiling than the Typhoon, and is an all around better air superiority fighter. Regardless, who dogfights 20km above the earth?

That said, Gen Jumper has said good things about the Eurofighter.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10
 Nov 16, 10, 00:18    #186
A J:
Ever heard of the Eurofighter Typhoon? Turkey doesn't have those. You might aswell keep every F-35 grounded. Basically only F-22 Raptors can touch it at the highest altitudes. (Sorry!)


This will help, the F22 Raptor is #1, Typhoon is #2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIlhSEzDTXc
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
Edited by: A J  Nov 16, 10, 00:46    #187
convex:
The F35 has a higher ceiling than the Typhoon.


Oh really? Show me a report please.

convex:
and is an all around better air superiority fighter. Regardless, who dogfights 20km above the earth?


Experts say otherwise. Also, reports show that a Typhoon defeated a Raptor, and it's known that the JSF was only designed to be better than the F-16 and F-18.

guesswho:
This will help, the F22 Raptor is #1, Typhoon is #2




You were saying?

:)
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09
 Pictures: 2
Edited by: convex  Nov 16, 10, 01:49    #188
A J:
Oh really? Show me a report please.

The reported ceiling of an F35 is 60k ft, Typhoon is 55k ft. Again, it doesn't matter.
A J:
Experts say otherwise. Also, reports show that a Typhoon defeated a Raptor, and it's known that the JSF was only designed to be better than the F-16 and F-18.

No it didn't. The F22 is a pure air superiority fighter, the Typhoon is a multi-role fighter, like the F35. F22 = next gen F15, F35 = next gen F16....

Here's a nice little chart for all of you following the action at home:
f22

Conclusion? In a one on one engagement, the Typhoon pilot would be dead before even seeing the F22 on radar...

"you can't shoot down what you can't see"

guesswho:
This will help, the F22 Raptor is #1, Typhoon is #2

Yawn, sure. Performance wise they're about equal, with the US F35s winning out in avionics, the export models are about equal.

This of course doesn't matter much, because as everyone knows air superiority is won over the horizon. We will never see the air forces of advanced states in dogfights ever again. The F35 carries a better air superiority payload than the Typhoon, that's about the end of story. An AIM120D will engage a target at 140km@mach4, the BVRAAM has a range of 100km@mach4...you're good at math, which aircraft will engage first?

Oh yea, and that Typhoon has a much larger RCS than the F35.

Which one would I buy? It's a no brainer. Especially considering that the jet is only a small part of the overall weapons system. I'll take the jet that has been proven to work with the AWACS and the ground radar.

Enjoy that Typhoon. Nice plane, not the complete package...
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10
Edited by: guesswho  Nov 16, 10, 02:06    #189
convex:
Yawn


The video I provided above, additional information:

"The 10 Best Fighter Aircraft in the World as of 2010 -- All Aircraft are rated on Performance : speed,Rate of climb,range, service ceiling,max take-off weight --Avionics -- Agility -- Multi-role ability -- Weapons -- Stealth .. Sensors and ability to net-work.."

according to this criteria, the F22 Raptor is currently the best aircraft.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
Edited by: A J  Nov 16, 10, 02:10    #190
convex:
The reported ceiling of an F35 is 60k ft, Typhoon is 55k ft. Again, it doesn't matter.


It maybe the case, but I'd like to see the report. (Because I haven't seen it!)

Hey, I'm just going to cut this short, because if I gave you the full report on what a Typhoon can do you're just going to come up with a few claims, like so many other Americans before you. Let's just say that the experts over here firmly disagree with you, and I have many reasons to believe the JSF isn't as stealthy as they think it is. (Actually, I already know that the Dutch navy picked them up.)

About long-distance missiles? Yup. The Typhoon comes with 12. Thrust-to-weight ratio? I'm sorry, but the JSF just isn't superiour in that area. (The F-35 *is* faster without afterburn though, I'll give you that much!) Also, the Typhoon has an IR tracker which may be able to focus on the unit down the path of an F-35's active radar signal, using ESM, to detect the F-35 for a long-distance shot, long before the F-35 actually picks up a Typhoon. (Same story with the Raptor, as proven before.) The Tranche 2 and 3 Eurofighters will have vectored thrust, which means they'll be capable of breaking a radar lock if well-flown, or even dodge AMRAAMS, and close in for an IR tracker-guided shot.

Opinions differ. I don't believe that the JSF is better, especially not when you keep in mind it wasn't designed to be superiour to a Raptor. (Which has been beaten by a Typhoon multiple times, like it or not.)

So. Let's just keep it at that. (I don't give a flying monkey though, but I kinda like discussing all this crap.)

guesswho:
"The 10 Best Fighter Aircraft in the World as of 2010 -- All Aircraft are rated on Performance : speed,Rate of climb,range, service ceiling,max take-off weight --Avionics -- Agility -- Multi-role ability -- Weapons -- Stealth .. Sensors and ability to net-work.."


It didn't show much information. It didn't prove much either. Just show me a report which states that an F-35 Lightning II or a F-22 Raptor has beaten a Typhoon in a dogfight, and maybe then I'll shut up.

:)
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09
 Pictures: 2
Edited by: convex  Nov 16, 10, 02:38    #191
A J:
It maybe the case, but I'd like to see the report. (Because I haven't seen it!)

That's based on the brochures. Check the sites for info. I get mine from Janes.

A J:
Hey, I'm just going to cut this short, because if I gave you the full report on what a Typhoon can do you're just going to come up with a few claims, like so many other Americans before you. Let's just say that the experts over here firmly disagree with you, and I have many reasons to believe the JSF isn't as stealthy as they think it is. (Actually, I already know that the Dutch navy picked them up.)

Jesus, the JSF is meant to be a multirole fighter, just like the Typhoon. The RCS isn't something that's hidden or top secret...

A J:
About long-distance missiles? Yup. The Typhoon comes with 12. Thrust-to-weight ratio? I'm sorry, but the JSF just isn't superiour in that area. (The F-35 *is* faster without afterburn though, I'll give you that much!) Also, the Typhoon has an IR tracker which may be able to focus on the unit down the path of an F-35's active radar signal, using ESM, to detect the F-35 for a long-distance shot, long before the F-35 actually picks up a Typhoon. (Same story with the Raptor, as proven before.) The Tranche 2 and 3 Eurofighters will have vectored thrust, which means they'll be capable of breaking a radar lock if well-flown, or even dodge AMRAAMS, and close in for an IR tracker-guided shot.

You do realize how stupid that sounds right? Anyway, again, I hate to labor the point, but the point is over the horizon engagement...140km vs 100km @mach4. 40km advantage...published...
A J:
Opinions differ. I don't believe that the JSF is better, especially not when you keep in mind it wasn't designed to be superiour to a Raptor. (Which has been beaten by a Typhoon multiple times, like it or not.)

Show me a single time that an F22 has been defeated in simulated combat. You haven't, you can't, you won't...not even against the Su-PAK.

If you want a bit more detail on this, I had a conversation with Sokrates a while back about the F16 purchase vs F35s or Typhoons.

Outcome, the JSF has a better radar, a lower radar cross section, and a better weapons load. The Typhoon is more maneuverable (but not as maneuverable as a a Gen 5 missile). The AIM120-D is scary, especially when paired with the F35's radar...AESA? Still being tested this side of the Atlantic...ALR-94 combined with APG-81, installed on the F35s...today...

A J:
It didn't show much information. It didn't prove much either. Just show me a report which states that an F-35 Lightning II or a F-22 Raptor has beaten a Typhoon in a dogfight, and maybe then I'll shut up.

Dude, pop in your top gun tape, and come back to me with a report on what the 80s were like. Air superiority fighters are well over the horizon now. It's no longer maneuvering, just radar, missiles, and detectability... The Typhoon would destroy an F35 in a short range dogfight. Would almost hold its own to an F22. In conventional combat, the Typhoon would be eliminated before it knew that either were out there.

For bonus points, the Meteor won't see service until 2015. The F35s have AIM-120Ds available today...Tyhpoons have the C model available... By the time the Meteor (less capable than an AIM-120D) is loaded onto a Typhoon, the JDRADM will be showing up...

Goodnight. Would like to talk radar all night long... Every man has a fetish...
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
 Nov 16, 10, 03:22    #192
convex:
You do realize how stupid that sounds right?


With the stunts I've seen? I would say that's possible under certain circumstances.

convex:
40km advantage...published...


Yes, and how about manoeuvrability? Because there's the huge disadvantage.

convex:
In conventional combat, the Typhoon would be eliminated before it knew that either were out there.


If you assume a Typhoon is flying blind, which simply isn't the case. The whole point here is that you're comparing to a Tranche 1 Typhoon, which means without upgrades. The Tranche 2 will have more upgrades, including an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar. The Tranche 3? They're not even sure about what they're going to improve! (But I suspect the end result will be mean.)

:)
convexThreads: 46
Posts: 7,185
Joined: Nov 25, 09
 Pictures: 2
 Nov 16, 10, 03:32    #193
A J:
With the stunts I've seen? I would say that's possible under certain circumstances.

A fighter in supercruise vs a missile flying at mach4...
A J:
Yes, and how about manoeuvrability? Because there's the huge disadvantage.

It doesn't matter. AIM120D has a two way data link, it's not some dumb IR missile. Mach4+ALR-94+APG-81=over the horizon kill, regardless of maneuverability. The Typhoon will not outmaneuver that weapon system. Neither would the F22.
A J:
If you assume a Typhoon is flying blind, which simply isn't the case. The whole point here is that you're comparing to a Tranche 1 Typhoon, which means without upgrades. The Tranche 2 will have more upgrades, including an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar. The Tranche 3? They're not even sure about what they're going to improve! (But I suspect the end result will be mean.)

We are comparing a single jet to another jet. If you want to compare European AWACS capability to US AWACS capability, I'm all ears. That is where the gap widens considerably.

I would hope that the next round of Typhoons would have upgrades. It would be real nice to get a decent radar into the plane (yet to be flown....). And again, still lacking the weapons to make use of said radar...

Till tomorrow, really this time.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10
 Nov 16, 10, 03:32    #194
A J:
Just show me a report which states that an F-35 Lightning II or a F-22 Raptor has beaten a Typhoon in a dogfight, and maybe then I'll shut up.


OK shut up then AJ, lololololol

" The notion that the aircraft is “almost as good as an F-22” is not supportable,"

Taken from an Australian website (neutral point of view)

http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-Typhoon.html

"America rocks, Europe sucks" LOLOLOL (all in fun)
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10
Edited by: A J  Nov 16, 10, 03:44    #195
convex:
We are comparing a single jet to another jet. If you want to compare European AWACS capability to US AWACS capability, I'm all ears. That is where the gap widens considerably.


Oh, don't we all know it! (Just wait for that Tranche 2.)

convex:
I would hope that the next round of Typhoons would have upgrades. It would be real nice to get a decent radar into the plane (yet to be flown....). And again, still lacking the weapons to make use of said radar...


I didn't mention it, but those weapon systems are already in development. (Missiles too.)

convex:
We are comparing a single jet to another jet.


True, but I'm also keeping the end product in mind. The Typhoon project was scheduled in three stages, so it's only logical that I regard this as the prototype. (Unfinished.)

guesswho:
" The notion that the aircraft is “almost as good as an F-22” is not supportable,"


Yeah, but the International Airpower Revieuw says something else, and about a real-time excercise no less! So frankly, I don't care what Crocodile Dundee has to say about it!

;P

guesswho:
Taken from an Australian website (neutral point of view)


They speak English, so how can they be neutral?

guesswho:
"America rocks, Europe sucks" LOLOLOL (all in fun)


Suuuure!

xD


page 7 of 7:  « Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7

Home / News, Politics / Unanswered [this forum] | Similar


Similar discussions:

Poland may join G20 group at London summit in April  If I could introduce something from my country into Poland, I would....


Random: Polish music (help with artist names and song titles?)

Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please log in or register.


59 [Guests - 40 / Members - 19] users on live forums now


Home | Unanswered | Archives | Random | Statistics Time in Poland: 20:41 / May 26

About Us | Contact Us | Rules, Privacy | Poland Advertising

© 2005-12 PolishForums.com