Tusk abandons future road-building plans, thinking "Who needs roads anway?"

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	May 11, 11, 10:18 #1
Yep, after next year the strategic plan is to be put on hold. Already the highway construction budget has been slashed by 2/3 on last year's figures. The government spokesman said that we should all invest in new shock absorbers and reinforced bumpers.

♂

Edited by: hague1cmaeron May 11, 11, 10:35 #2

Varsovian:

Yep, after next year the strategic plan is to be put on hold. Already the highway construction budget has been slashed by 2/3 on last year's figures. The government spokesman said that we should all invest in new shock absorbers and reinforced bumpers.

Most of them are nearing completion and will be completed in any case, and you made up the bit about the government spokesman didn't you? The government is going to go into its next phase of rail investment, this is on top of the rebuilding of rail stations that is currently taking place.

All the additional suggested road investments are mainly centered on building bypasses around major cities, that will be the next phase of investment and is likely to take place some time in 2013 and after that. The government does not have money coming out of its ass you know, so which taxes would you increase or which spending would you slash to pay for this extra investment?

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	May 11, 11, 11:23 #3
Of course I made that bit up - well spotted! I'm happy to hear you're happy with Poland's roads. Rail will be the next disaster to be happy with.

♂

Edited by: Antek_Stalich May 11, 11, 11:50 #4

I do hate all this complaining...
A new thread about "Polish complaining" would be right, still, I have no energy to read the next portion of such garbage.

This reminds me the "positive Danish complaining". A street in Copenhagen had been paved with asphalt. Someone discovered the underlying material was authentic flagstone dating back to Andersen's times. Local people started pushing local authorities. As the effect, you can admire wonderful flagstone-paved Sofiegade.

I even don't want to think how this would have gone here in Poland where "two Poles have three different opinions on anything".

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: warszawski May 11, 11, 12:28 #5
Varsovian: The government spokesman said that we should all invest in new shock absorbers and reinforced bumpers. Well 5,000 PLN every 2-3 years is better than is better than increased taxes, to support the road building.

♂

May 11, 11, 12:37 #6

Antek_Stalich:

This reminds me the "positive Danish complaining". A street in Copenhagen had been paved with asphalt. Someone discovered the underlying material was authentic flagstone dating back to Andersen's times. Local people started pushing local authorities. As the effect, you can admire wonderful flagstone-paved Sofiegade.

I even don't want to think how this would have gone here in Poland where "two Poles have three different opinions on anything".

In my hometown all the asphalt roads in the old town part are replaced with granite setts to give it more XIXth century feeling. On local level, where the community has actually a huge influence on authorities, a lot of initiatives are actually executed.

And I agree with the OP, we should push government for more roads. This map is nothing short of embarassment for an EU country
http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:NowaMapaAutostradyStan. svg&filetimestamp=20110226093246

♂

Edited by: Antek_Stalich May 11, 11, 12:47 #7

OTOH, Koala, let's look to the Danish matters again. On the country-wide level, there was a government road-building plan back there in 1970's. Since that, the Danish government has decided the Danish drive far too many cars and few new roads are being built. Except the bridge over the Sund, the bridge over the Great Belt and completely unnecessary highway over Jutland (ALL were unnecessary and it was a political decision to build them), there have been no major road construction works in Denmark anymore for years. However, the Danish public transportation system is just excellent.

Should be put blames on all our Governments or better let them work?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	May 11, 11, 12:48 #8
Easy to predict, they have run off monies already, but of-curse some retards increased their fortunes. Tusk and his horde - eh?

PalivecThreads: - Posts: 333 Joined: Apr 22, 11 ♂	Edited by: Palivec May 11, 11, 12:49 #9
Koala: And I agree with the OP, we should push government for more roads. This map is nothing short of embarassment for an EU country Note that the former German regions are still not connected with the inner parts of Poland! Are there really no plans to connect Szczecin with Gdańsk and Poznań, and Wrocław with Łódź and Poznań???

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 12:49 #10
Ironside: Tusk and his horde - eh? Heard the same about the Ducks...

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	May 11, 11, 13:00 #11
Antek_Stalich: Heard the same about the Ducks... Exactly. Some people have this overpowering urge to complain about everything and never see anything positive which might be happening.

♂

May 11, 11, 13:05 #12

Antek_Stalich:

OTOH, Koala, let's look to the Danish matters again. On the country-wide level, there was a government road-building plan back there in 1970's. Since that, the Danish government has decided the Danish drive far too many cars and few new roads are being built. Except the bridge over the Sund, the bridge over the Great Belt and completely unnecessary highway over Jutland (ALL were unnecessary and it was a political decision to build them), there have been no major road construction works in Denmark anymore for years. However, the Danish public transportation system is just excellent.

Should be put blames on all our Governments or better let them work?

I don't think we drive more cars (per capita) the the Western societies yet. Our government can't just decide that we have enough roads as is when your every trip to a nearby city could serve as a survival story.

Palivec:

Note that the former German regions are still not connected with the inner parts of Poland! Are there really no plans to connect Szczecin with Gdańsk and Poznań, and Wrocław with Łódź and Poznań???

Keep in mind this map is several years old and I don't know which plans came to fruition. Szczecin is going to have a really nice road to woj. dolnośląskie opened this Fall, a huge improvement over the old one from what I saw.

♂

Edited by: Antek_Stalich May 11, 11, 13:09 #13

Koala:

I don't think we drive more cars (per capita) the the Western societies yet. Our government can't just decide that we have enough roads as is when your every trip to a nearby city could serve as a survival story.

The Danish government had yet decided for their citizens although I'm sure Danish people would like to have more and better roads. My Swedish experience about the road system there is far more positive. Roads in Norway, an extremely rich country are just poor unless we are talking Oslo and the new motorway from Svinesund (the Swedish/Norway border location at the south).

Now, I have crossed the whole Houston TX by car, East -> West. The road quality was really varying. They have no PM Tusk to put blames on. The Sam Houston Motorway was excellent, but it is a toll-road.

In Italy, only toll highways were perfect. Other roads were rather poor. In a G7 country.

I suggest to all the complaining to see some of the world ;-))

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 11, 11, 13:10 #14
Palivec: Note that the former German regions are still not connected with the inner parts of Poland! Are there really no plans to connect Szczecin with Gdańsk and Poznań, and Wrocław with Łódź and Poznań??? Not with highways, but with expressways.

♂

May 11, 11, 13:23 #15

Antek_Stalich:

quality was really varying. Thye have no PM Tusk to put blames on. The Sam Houston Motorway was excellent, but it is a toll-road.

In Italy, only toll highways were perfect. The other roads were rather poor. In a G7 country.

I suggest to all the complaining to see some of the world ;-))

We should not set for low standards. Germany has far better roads and I happen to travel a lot there, so that's my comparison sample for the most part. I drove across several other countries (Spain, France, Czech) and had far better experience than in Poland. Better roads should be one of our priorities for a while, at least until we connect all the bigger cities with express roads and have some nice local roads to medium sized cities (~100k).

♂

May 11, 11, 13:24 #16

Antek_Stalich:

Heard the same about the Ducks...

That is the way irony works.

Magdalena:

Exactly. Some people have this overpowering urge to complain about everything and never see anything positive which might be happening.

Some people seems to be lost in the nowadays world and are able only to get on with their life, complying with everything, and only reacting - like cattle.

Palivec:

Note that the former German regions are still not connected with the inner parts of Poland!

And your point is ?

KoalaThreads: 1 Posts: 433 Joined: May 4, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 13:34 #17
The thread isn't about whining about current state, but what should be done going forward. Some of you should cool down before pressing "Post your message" button.

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 13:37 #18
Koala: The thread isn't about whining about current state, but what should be done going forward. Some of you should cool down before pressing "Post your message" button. What are your suggestions to improve the matters, then? Who should do what, for what money, when? Do-actions please.

♂

May 11, 11, 13:44 #19

Antek_Stalich:

What are your suggestions to improve the matters, then? Who should do what, for what money, when? Do-actions please.

To continue with more or less the same effort and money spending as we've had in the last 4 years? Ireally do think we should have for example an express road binding Szczecin and Gdańsk, via Koszalin and Słupsk. Yes it's expensive, but how much money our economy loses due to the time wasted on clogged roads and deaths in car accidents?

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,727 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM May 11, 11, 13:52 #20
Express roads and motorways are continuing to be built. See map for details by year. I guess the first priority is the deficit so the local road's finance get the chop.

♂

May 11, 11, 14:03 #21

Koala:

but how much money our economy loses due to the time wasted on clogged roads and deaths in car accidents?

Do you think that somebody care about it? How much money are wasted due to overpaid and overgrown offices - most of them is just waste of space.
Monies from tax should be enough to build dozen of expressways and few motorways. I'm talking a high quality here, not some cheap materials and workmanship as many of newly build or repaired reads have.
It all means that higher management sucks and they are responsible. It was possible to build high quality roads even during PRL's times: for example - Lubin -Polkowice !

PalivecThreads: - Posts: 333 Joined: Apr 22, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 14:06 #22
Ironside: And your point is ? That it should be done? Especially Szczecin.

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	Edited by: Antek_Stalich May 11, 11, 14:35 #23
Isn't it interesting that the decent road development has been only happening for the last 4 years? Perhaps the Poles can do something on the grand scale only in case of an "action" such as preparations for EURO 2012? This is just a loose thought.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 15:05 #24
Varsovian: lready the highway construction budget has been slashed by 2/3 on last year's figures. Excellent. Too many cars on the road.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	May 11, 11, 15:08 #25
Palivec: Are there really no plans to connect Szczecin with Gdańsk The last time there was a plan to connect those two cities, it didn't work out too well for Poland.

♂

May 11, 11, 16:11 #26

Antek_Stalich:

Isn't it interesting that the decent road development has been only happening for the last 4 years?
Perhaps the Poles can do something on the grand scale only in case of an "action" such as preparations for EURO 2012?

This is just a loose thought.

and even then they fail - there will be no A2 connection to Warsaw as far as I know - it will end up in some field 30 miles from the capital (I don't know the exact figures) - A4 will not be completed to the Ukrainian border - and it is just the TV news - there will be no connection between the A1 and A2 most probably - doesn't look very welcoming

perhaps it is the result of the first year and a half of the PO-PSL government in the office - in the stated period our government has utilised less than 1 per cent of EU funding available to Poland for the 2007 - 2012 budget - not very overly impressive - (my personal hypothesis is they tried to arrange necessary contracts in the way 'the right' businesses were involved - (like Mr Kulczyk's or Mr Krauze's enterprises)

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 16:19 #27
gumishu: and even then they fail - there will be no A2 connection to Warsaw as far as I know - it will end up in some field 30 miles from the capital I do not think so. The A2 is now ready from Warsaw to Ożarów. And the construction works at the level of Błonie, Brwinów are at full speed.

♂

May 11, 11, 16:45 #28

Antek_Stalich:

gumishu:
and even then they fail - there will be no A2 connection to Warsaw as far as I know - it will end up in some field 30 miles from the capital

I do not think so. The A2 is now ready from Warsaw to Ożarów. And the construction works at the level of Błonie, Brwinów are at full speed.

and what about 'obietky inżynieryjne' I don't know how to put it in English - you can't build them in half a year you know (I'm pretty sure you do)

Antek_StalichThreads: 6 Posts: 1,533 Joined: May 6, 11 ♂	May 11, 11, 17:22 #29
One year from now the motorway will be finished. Only you gumishu will forget what you were saying now ;-)

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: gumishu May 11, 11, 17:27 #30
Antek_Stalich: One year from now the motorway will be finished. Only you gumishu will forget what you were saying now ;-) well, the PF will be still there, hopefully with its archive intact - so you will probably be able to point it out to me in that year's time - so no worries - and I can admit to my mistakes - believe me

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Poland News and Events	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 20:41 / May 26
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com