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U.S., Poland sign military aviation accord


posts: 24

PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 16:05    #1
"This memorandum of understanding means that by the end of 2012 we will have in Poland a detachment allowing for the permanent rotation of American military aircraft, both combat and transport aircraft," Defence Minister Bogdan Klich said.

"From 2013 we plan the regular and periodic presence of aircraft and the training of pilots four times a year," Klich told reporters after the signing ceremony with the U.S. ambassador to Poland, Lee Feinstein.

Poland, a NATO member since 1999, has long lobbied for "American boots on the ground" to counter what it perceives as a more assertive Russian stance in central and eastern Europe.

The U.S. military is rotating a Patriot battery through Poland as part of efforts to upgrade Polish air defences.

During his visit to Warsaw, Obama and Polish leaders also reaffirmed plans for Poland to host SM-3 interceptors from 2018 under a revamped U.S. missile defence programme.
http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/us-poland-sign-military-aviation-ac cord
http://en.trend.az/regions/world/usa/1890743.html
http://www.tvn24.pl/-1,1706684,0,1,sa-podpisy-amerykanskie-wojsko-wkra cza-do-polski,wiadomosc.html
sobieskiThreads: 82
Posts: 1,143
Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 18:21    #2
What countries do to be able to get to the US without a visa. Pathetic.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 18:55    #3
sobieski:
What countries do to be able to get to the US without a visa. Pathetic.

Yes I'm 100% sure that's the reason. Maybe, a stronger US military presence will mean a safer Poland also?
David_18Threads: 111
Posts: 1,212
Joined: Jan 4, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 19:38    #4
PennBoy:
a stronger US military presence will mean a safer Poland also?

The opposite actually, it's nice though :)
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 19:54    #5
PennBoy wrote:

Poland, a NATO member since 1999, has long lobbied for "American boots on the ground" to counter what it perceives as a more assertive Russian stance in central and eastern Europe.


this statement sticks out the most for me.

Serious question: why does Poland want "American boots" on the ground? Why not other countries' boots? What's so special about the USA?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 19:57    #6
In my opinion Poland should get the american nukes from Germany.
Germans definitely don't want them anylonger and Poland might feel assured with having them and the US will still have their nukes in Europe.

A win-win-win situation!
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 20:11    #7
David_18:
The opposite actually, it's nice though :)

wrong
FUZZYWICKETS:
Serious question: why does Poland want "American boots" on the ground? Why not other countries' boots? What's so special about the USA?

Putting the sarcasm apart. American forces are the strongest that's why.
Bratwurst Boy:
In my opinion Poland should get the american nukes from Germany.
Germans definitely don't want them anylonger and Poland might feel assured with having them and the US will still have their nukes in Europe.

A win-win-win situation!

Russian politicians and military leaders say Poland is and will be their sphere of influence. That alone says what plans the Russians have for Poland. A strong American presence, with American troops and billions of dollars of American military hardware(ABM missiles, fighter planes, bases) on the ground will give Poland a much better security guarantee than it's basic NATO membership. Poland will gain something on the lines of what Germany has from the US.
legendThreads: 9
Posts: 819
Joined: Apr 23, 11 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 20:13    #8
PennBoy:
Russian politicians and military leaders say Poland is and will be their sphere of influence. That alone says what plans the Russians have for Poland. A strong American presence, with American troops and billions of dollars of American military hardware(ABM missiles, fighter planes, bases) on the ground will give Poland a much better security guarantee than it's basic NATO membership. Poland will gain something on the lines of what Germany has from the US.


So in other words you support this?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: delphiandomine  Jun 13, 11, 22:18    #9
PennBoy:
Russian politicians and military leaders say Poland is and will be their sphere of influence.


Where?

That sounds like the usual rubbish spouted by Giertych and friends.

Russia is still very interested in her "near abroad" - which is usually understood to mean the former USSR states, excluding the Baltic countries. Poland? It was lost years ago and is of little to no interest to Russia these days.

Perhaps you should look at Russian policy towards Serbia to see how little interest Russia has in many countries these days.
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:25    #10
PennBoy wrote:

Putting the sarcasm apart. American forces are the strongest that's why.

Sure.

Now, like you, there is no sarcasm here either and I need to bring this up because it constantly rings through this forum.....

If people are going to pi$$ and moan about how the USA is this imperialistic psycho industrial military complex, how we screwed up the world economically, as well as whatever people constantly say they hate about the USA (mind you, I'm not denying any of this, just sayin' for the sake of argument).....WHAT royalties, or at the very least respect, if ANY, does the United States of America earn by being the guy who does the military dirty work and is very often responsible for protecting other countries?

Do you all find it perfectly fine that most of Poland dislikes the USA for reasons X, Y and Z......yet we should somehow protect you at the same time?

Is it OK to hate on the USA and then say, "we want American boots on our soil"?

Why should the USA help.......well.....anyone? Nobody seems to want us there....but they do.....and they don't......but they do.

The USA is in a world of hurt economically right now and you can be damn sure a lot of the debt we have today is because we've been the world's silent manager with our military for many many years......and we never ask for the money back. When does the USA start getting paid, even if it's simple respect, for what they do?

Have you EVER read a post by a non-American on this forum that goes something like, "I really appreciate the sacrifices the USA makes with their military and the amount of money they spend on keeping other countries safe (along with the unbelievable amount of foreign aid like food, various resources and cold hard cash the USA spends every year)"??? Look hard, I doubt you'll find it.

I wasn't an Iraq war supporter, I believe the USA gets involved in too many wars in general....but I lived in Poland for several years and I know how Poland feels about the USA's military agendas......yet their leaders still want our protection. I know Poland's politicians don't represent all of Poland, or everyone on this forum for that matter....but you have to be able to understand how these things can frustrate a tax paying american.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:28    #11
FUZZYWICKETS:
Have you EVER read a post by a non-American on this forum that goes something like, "I really appreciate the sacrifices the USA makes with their military and the amount of money they spend on keeping other countries safe (along with the unbelievable amount of foreign aid like food, various resources and cold hard cash the USA spends every year)"??? Look hard, I doubt you'll find it.


I'll make it.

America was almost single-handedly responsible for the German economic miracle in the 50's, as well as getting many other European nations back on their feet. If it wasn't for the American presence in West Germany, it would seem unlikely that the country would ever have prospered. Likewise with West Berlin - if it wasn't for the Americans, it would've collapsed.

Radio Free Europe was of immense, immense importance in Eastern Europe too - far more than the BBC, I'm led to believe.
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:30    #12
FUZZYWICKETS:
Is it OK to hate on the USA and then say, "we want American boots on our soil"?


Are you stupid? the PEOPLE do not invite these bastards.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
Posts: 14,563
Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy  Jun 13, 11, 22:35    #13
delphiandomine:
America was almost single-handedly responsible for the German economic miracle in the 50's,


Nah....that would be the Germans.
Other countries received more than double and triple the amount of help and did not get any "miracle" done.

delphiandomine:
If it wasn't for the American presence in West Germany, it would seem unlikely that the country would ever have prospered. Likewise with West Berlin - if it wasn't for the Americans, it would've collapsed.


Well...the Soviets offered re-unification of Germany and wanted only neutrality in return. As it happened with Austria. They got their demands and left...not so in Germany. We still have our friends and their toys here.
sobieskiThreads: 82
Posts: 1,143
Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:38    #14
Bratwurst Boy:
Germans definitely don't want them anylonger

They can have the US nukes from Belgium as well. Nobody wants them (and for that matter nobody wants any Yanks as well). Here in Poland they will be thrilled. JK and laptop ziobro will put a "kokarda" around them :)
And no, we leftist loonies from Belgium do not need visa for the US :)
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 22:49    #15
Piast Poland wrote:

Are you stupid? the PEOPLE do not invite these bastards.

read the rest of my post, stupid.

here:

I know Poland's politicians don't represent all of Poland, or everyone on this forum for that matter....but you have to be able to understand how these things can frustrate a tax paying american.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:19    #16
delphiandomine:
Perhaps you should look at Russian policy towards Serbia to see how little interest Russia has in many countries these days.

Serbia is not that important, a small country on the outskirts of Europe. Poland is a large central European nation between Germany and Russia. It's the crossroads of Europe, that's why it had so many wars.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:22    #17
PennBoy:
Serbia is not that important, a small country on the outskirts of Europe. Poland is a large central European nation between Germany and Russia. It's the crossroads of Europe, that's why it had so many wars.


Not important? Serbia is very much in a strategic place between West and East, just like Poland (hence the bloody history) - don't forget who started WWI as well!
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:28    #18
delphiandomine:
don't forget who started WWI as well!

trades and armies don't go from Turkey via Serbia via Adriatic, but east to west in Europe. As to WWI the European nations were itching for war years before it broke out that whole assassination was an excuse, plus Austrians at first just wanted to punish the Serbs not start a WW.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
Posts: 2,318
Joined: Feb 6, 10  Pictures: 4 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jun 13, 11, 23:31    #19
delphiandomine:
don't forget who started WWI as well!

If you are asserting Serbia started WW1 then you are wrong. The Austrian Archduke's assassin was not a citizen of the Kingdom of Serbia nor an agent of it. He was a citizen of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Said empire used his ethnicity as a pretext to attack the Kingdom of Serbia. The Habsburgs started the first world war not the Serbs.
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: Piast Poland  Jun 14, 11, 01:21    #20
FUZZYWICKETS

So why contradict yourself. Next time think.

DELPH:

Austria and the greed of politicians started world war 1. Serbs were the only ones fighting for their freedom.
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 03:11    #21
Piast Poland wrote:

So why contradict yourself. Next time think.

You didn't read it and I exposed it. Go away now or make an intelligent comment.
Piast PolandThreads: 3
Posts: 272
Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 04:02    #22
FUZZYWICKETS:
You didn't read it and I exposed it. Go away now or make an intelligent comment.


You still do no see it.
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 18:17    #23
Piast Poland wrote:

You still do no see it.

I see you trying to save face.

next time, be careful when calling people "stupid".
sobieskiThreads: 82
Posts: 1,143
Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂ 		 Jun 14, 11, 18:20    #24
PennBoy:
sobieski:
What countries do to be able to get to the US without a visa. Pathetic.

Yes I'm 100% sure that's the reason. Maybe, a stronger US military presenc

No. The Poles would do anything to get "the Beast" on their streets again. Whereas most Western Europeans think differently.


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