US air base to be in Poland

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 11, 11, 22:51 #121
Seanus: Piast Poland summed it up in a nutshell there. Governments often forget about repercussions for citizens and that's a huge mistake worthy of the utmost comtempt! So uh, who did you guys vote for? Are you discrediting the idea of representative democracy as a whole? What's your alternative?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 11, 11, 22:53 #122
Convex, major issues require the use of referendums, simple. If the will of the majority is for such a base then I have no defence but I bet my bottom dollar it isn't the case.

♂

May 11, 11, 22:57 #123

Seanus:

Convex, major issues require the use of referendums, simple. If the will of the majority is for such a base then I have no defence but I bet my bottom dollar it isn't the case.

Not according to the Constitution. The Polish government requesting F16s in Poland is a "major issue"? No change of the Constitution, no referendum needed. If the people are displeased, they'd vote their representatives out of power. Truth is, most people don't care.

♂

May 11, 11, 23:00 #124

Well, there is apathy amongst the masses, I'll concede that much. However, without a formal ascertaining of the majority will, Tusk is pressing ahead with sth that is dubious to say the least. Votes are lodged at elections, convex, and they aren't due to take place til Oct of this year so what rights do voters really have? Protests are often left unheeded anyway.

The Polish govt requesting a US presence like a protectorate is the issue here. The day of garrisons has gone ;0 ;)

♂

May 11, 11, 23:07 #125

Seanus:

The Polish govt requesting a US presence like a protectorate is the issue here. The day of garrisons has gone ;0 ;)

In that case the referendum will come in October. Poles can vote in representatives who will express their will.

I think that you grossly underestimate the desire of quite a few Poles to have allies willing to defend them. There isn't exactly a huge "get out of NATO" movement.

And again, it's simply not of concern for most Poles in Poland. F16s, Patriots, ABM... the man on the street doesn't care.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	May 11, 11, 23:10 #126
Then I hope a referendum is issued. Oh, the NATO rationale was more prevalent in 1999 under Kwaśniewski. Many want to be defended, yes, but many also seek that a US presence could provoke a Russian reaction which is needless as relations are quite favourable with them at the moment. Many Poles may be indifferent but their vote still counts when push comes to shove.

Piast PolandThreads: 3 Posts: 272 Joined: Aug 28, 10 ♂	May 11, 11, 23:24 #127
Yes and I hope voters will change see this issue. But who else is there to elect? Seanus is right, there needs to be a referendum.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	May 12, 11, 15:25 #128
To be honest that is a secondary issue. The main problem in Poland (I guess in other country's as well) is a lack of solid government working solely for the interest of Polish people. Given that the US base issue could be solved in amicable manner if necessary.

♂

Jun 13, 11, 20:18 #129

More concrete plans for US air force presence in Poland. Seems as if these plans will indeed go ahead in the next few years and troops will be present on the ground for an indefinite period of time.

In return for this base Patriot missiles may not be deployed.

Overall very bad news.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/poland-agrees-to-a-permanen t-us-air-force-base-on-its-soil/2011/06/13/AGEYMsSH_story.html

http://www.rp.pl/artykul/10,673404_Amerykanskie_samoloty_zamiast_patri otow_.html

misse911Threads: - Posts: 3 Joined: Sep 22, 09 ♀	Nov 3, 11, 15:03 #130
Piast Poland: We do not need to host a base for the most hated and war mongering military/country world. Do you speak German? No? Then YOUR WELCOME you ungrateful SOB. Because if it weren't for those Americans you would be nothing more today than a slave to the Nazi machine.

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,377 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Nov 3, 11, 15:16 #131
misse911: Do you speak German? Is that your best reprisal? LOL It was a cooperative effort, even Russians did their part. Typical Yank taking all the glory and credit yet again, like no one else contributed. Besides what happen almost 70 years ago does not make the previous post false or what you have become. Shove it!

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