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US Military: Polish Army is crap.


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peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:01    #1
The US military is reportedly highly critical of the competence and capabilities of Polish forces serving in Afghanistan.

“It was as if the [Polish] were waiting for us to come back and release them from their base” one anonymous officer told Time magazine. “[the Poles are] just kind of hanging around,” he added.

According to Time, the Polish top-down approach is an ill-suited strategy for fighting a counter-insurgency campaign.

One US officer, commenting on work carried out by Polish forces, stated that in the eastern Andar District, “The government, development, Afghan security forces all seem to have regressed ... We're basically starting from scratch here.”

And in the Deh Yak District the Afghan security forces were equally critical about Poland's effort: “The Polish did nothing for us,” said district police chief, Lieutenant Faiz Muhammad. “It just got worse day-by-day until the Americans got here.”

According to Time, US officers hold Brigadier General Andrzej Reudowicz, the Polish commander in charge of forces in Ghazni, in high regard and say he brings a sense of urgency to his position.

“We are changing some of our behaviors to become more aggressive” he told Time. “We are on the same track [as the Americans],” he added.

But Ghazni is not the place to learn how to conduct operations. “Clearly Ghazni is bad. It's gone from a decent province in 2008 to one of the worst in the country,” says another anonymous U.S. officer. “I think it's fair to say that in a coalition setting like this one, you really have to be careful about who goes where and for how long.”

http://www.wbj.pl/article-52503-us-military-slams-polish-forces.html?t yp=wbj
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:06    #2
Oh, so now it's the turn of the Poles to be complained about (the germans and the brits have previously been on the receiving end). maybe everyone should just pull out and leave the US to it, as they seem to be the only ones who know how to do it properly...

I bet it's great for morale of the guys (US and coalition) to hear such things.

One day maybe the brass will learn to shut up!
Pinching PeteThreads: 1
Posts: 1,111
Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:08    #3
According to Time, US officers hold Brigadier General Andrzej Reudowicz, the Polish commander in charge of forces in Ghazni, in high regard and say he brings a sense of urgency to his position.

Not sure where it says Polish Army is crap? Poles haven't really had large scale operations in some time.. One could expect a little rust here and there. Ultimately, the mission will make them better soldiers for the future. It's basically constuctive criticism anyway.
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
Posts: 1,652
Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:15    #4
Trevek:
Oh, so now it's the turn of the Poles to be complained about (the germans and the brits have previously been on the receiving end). maybe everyone should just pull out and leave the US to it, as they seem to be the only ones who know how to do it properly...


My thoughts exactly, we all know that the yanks are really bad ass mother......

So yes leave them to it. obviously the whole world is incompetent and incapable, completely useless when it comes to torturing others and rubbing people's noses in it, instead of knocking people's doors down they actually knock on the door..... useless.
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:18    #5
Pinching Pete:
According to Time, US officers hold Brigadier General Andrzej Reudowicz, the Polish commander in charge of forces in Ghazni, in high regard and say he brings a sense of urgency to his position.

peterweg:
peterweg

What's with people trying to build hatred between Poles and Americans by starting stupid threads as this one?
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:19    #6
The USA has been in many combats since the second war , so its hardly suprising they are a little more expert than the Polish army...

They also have a whole lot more money to spend on equipment...
hague1cmaeronThreads: 21
Posts: 1,652
Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: hague1cmaeron  Dec 17, 10, 23:21    #7
Pinching Pete:
Brigadier General Andrzej Reudowicz


You have got to be kidding me, if he doesn't come from taxes and uses a lavatory instead of choking his chicken (Schwarzkopf) than he must be useless.
dtaylor5632Threads: 49
Posts: 4,459
Joined: May 2, 09  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:25    #8
Threads like this don't matter at all. All the forces on the ground really appreciate each other. Thats all that matters :)
trener zolwiaThreads: 5
Posts: 2,786
Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:28    #9
wildrover:
The USA has been in many combats since the second war , so its hardly suprising they are a little more expert than the Polish army...

This was my take on it too. Kinda like this says, they're old school fighters:
According to Time, the Polish top-down approach is an ill-suited strategy for fighting a counter-insurgency campaign.

Trevek:
I bet it's great for morale of the guys (US and coalition) to hear such things.

One day maybe the brass will learn to shut up!

Maybe the Media will learn to shut up.
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:30    #10
trener zolwia:
Maybe the Media will learn to shut up.


Nah, they enjoy the fallout and feed on it.
wildroverThreads: 180
Posts: 8,188
Joined: Jun 7, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:30    #11
The Polish airmen serving in the battle of Britain were not used for a long time in the battle as they were thought to be lacking in skill and commitment..

They did a pretty good job though when heavy losses finally forced the RAF to use them...they shot down more enemy planes than the RAF flyers...
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		Edited by: guesswho  Dec 17, 10, 23:36    #12
PennBoy:
What's with people trying to build hatred between Poles and Americans by starting stupid threads as this one?


Yep, they just hate to see peace and quiet here. It's like saying, we are your real friends, not the Americans. What a utter bs.

wildrover:
The USA has been in many combats since the second war , so its hardly suprising they are a little more expert than the Polish army...

They also have a whole lot more money to spend on equipment...


smart and realistic observation
trener zolwiaThreads: 5
Posts: 2,786
Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:37    #13
Trevek:
they enjoy the fallout and feed on it.

Worse than that, the Media is anti-military and war so they do all they can to undermine the effort... all done in the name of openess and free speech. Much like Wikileaks.
TrevekThreads: 33
Posts: 2,155
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:38    #14
wildrover:
The Polish airmen serving in the battle of Britain were not used for a long time in the battle as they were thought to be lacking in skill and commitment..


There was also the matter that top brass wanted them to fit in with the basic techniques/strategies/methods other RAF pilots used.

The thing with US army is that it has its own methods which differ from other forces. This doesn't always allow them to understand how other forces work and to utilise/work with them to the best end for both forces (of course, this also works the other way too).
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:42    #15
I say pull out leave Americans with their wars.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		 Dec 17, 10, 23:48    #16
Sokrates:
I say pull out leave Americans with their wars.


I hope you realize that technically, it wouldn't make us any big difference but it's nice to have some moral back up though.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 00:00    #17
guesswho:
I hope you realize that technically, it wouldn't make us any big difference but it's nice to have some moral back up though.


Correction: You don't have morals.
SokratesThreads: 19
Posts: 4,464
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Sokrates  Dec 18, 10, 00:03    #18
guesswho:
I hope you realize that technically, it wouldn't make us any big difference but it's nice to have some moral back up though.

It does for Poland, its costs us a fortune and we're getting zip in return. I didnt mean "pull out to show them" i meant it "pull out because it hurts us".

Poland has about 100.000 soldiers in the land forces, having 2800 in Afghanistan costs us the equivalent of upkeep for 15.000 men and our equipment is getting irreperably damaged in afghan conditions when replacing it is no easy matter for us.

I say we leave.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		 Dec 18, 10, 00:10    #19
A J:
Correction: You don't have morals.


Oh really AJ? :-) We may discuss this topic by some other chance AJ.
Comparing our morals will be fun for sure.
trener zolwiaThreads: 5
Posts: 2,786
Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 00:12    #20
How about that... Sokrates making more sense than AJ. Lol...
ShortHairThugThreads: -
Posts: 1,377
Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 00:21    #21
guesswho:
but it's nice to have some moral back up though.

Not much chance of that either since the big quarrel seems to be about a top-down approach, obviously someone told them to shove it, the orders have to come down from the top not some punk ass second rate officer fresh from military academy looking for a medal who would get everyone killed in the process.

Perhaps they are tired of being treated like s*** by Americans all the time, or heard one too many Polack Jokes, f*** it - they finally realized how the game is played being screwed all the time, good for them.

But that would just be too simple; the truth is the Americans are losing their grip on Afghanistan and when there’s a time to pull out, they can’t afford it anymore - the money is running out quickly, they’ll save their face by blaming others, today it’s Poland’s turn God only knows whose turn it will be tomorrow.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 18, 10, 01:40    #22
ShortHairThug:

Perhaps they are tired of being treated like s*** by Americans all the time, or heard one too many Polack Jokes, f*** it - they finally realized how the game is played being screwed all the time, good for them.



Perhaps you're making things up to suit your own agenda?

I've been to both Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably will be back again sooner rather than later. The only comments I've ever heard about the Polish troops were very positive. GROM forces "kicked a@&" in Iraq, I heard it several times from our own special ops guys. Never heard a so called "Polish joke" which in my view is a Polish to Polish phenomenon.

Surely there were problems but all troops and all nationalities ran into different kind of problems. Most of the stuff being said in the article is by Afghans themselves not by US commanders. Afghans by default want to deal with "top commanders" at all times, they view the Americans as the top-dogs due to the shear size of our military personnel. If the Afghans don't deal with Americans but rather with other nationalities sometimes they feel like their problems are being looked down upon because if they were viewed in a serious light surely the'd be dealing with the Americans. A flawed logic but a common one in the region. The comments in this article seem to reinforce that mentality.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 01:43    #23
peterweg:
US Military: Polish Army is crap.


Well, if the U.S. army was so great, then how come the local Afghans were much happier with Dutch soldiers? What I think is crap about America's army is that they are oblivious to collateral damage, or the local population. Shooting at a bunch of civilians and children from a helicopter for example, and calling it a mistake. I'm sorry, but can't someone equip them with binoculars so they can check before they shoot up the locals? Do you think it's all just coincidence that the Afghans are getting more agressive? I disagree with this whole war anyway, since it has little to do with terrorism, but more with natural resources.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Dec 18, 10, 01:48    #24
A J:
What I think is crap about America's army is that they are oblivious to collateral damage, or the local population.


You are totally clueless in this aspect. You have no idea how many of our guys have died by being overly protective of the civilian population, something jihadis use to their advantage each and every day.

If we are "oblivious to collateral damage" than you're a mass murderer. Both statements are about as logical.
tygrysThreads: 2
Posts: 404
Joined: Dec 28, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 03:23    #25
A J:
Shooting at a bunch of civilians and children from a helicopter for example, and calling it a mistake.

In war innocent people die. Doesn't matter who shoots at who, there will always be innocent people caught in the middle. You make it sound like all Americans go and shoot children but you do not know how many wish they were never there. You don't realize that American soldiers have families, children at home but were enlisted and shipped out somewhere where they would rather not be. They would prefer to stay home with their families than go shoot at children. It is war, innocent die and the soldiers when they do come back suffer mental anguish from seeing how life is destroyed. You make it sould like we are ruthless people with no feelings and emotions. But the military does not represent all Americans.
guesswhoThreads: 23
Posts: 3,326
Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀ 		 Dec 18, 10, 03:35    #26
tygrys:
They would prefer to stay home with their families than go shoot at children.

first of all, they don't do it on purpose but like you sad above, unfortunitely it happens. Also it's not like it only happens to our soldiers to accidentally kill civilians.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,432
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Dec 18, 10, 03:52    #27
tygrys:
They would prefer to stay home with their families

In that case, they shouldn't enlist. Enlisting means you have to go wherever the govt sends you and it could mean you have to engage in combat.
ShortHairThugThreads: -
Posts: 1,377
Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: ShortHairThug  Dec 18, 10, 04:09    #28
skysoulmate:
Perhaps you're making things up to suit your own agenda?

Agenda? LOL. Did you miss the word 'perhaps' in my statement? (Read speculation on my part). Been there, seen it, heard it, as to how common place is it I can’t say, one can’t be in all places at once but there always seem to be a hick in the crowd that tries to impress his buddies with his brilliant funny anecdotes.
skysoulmate:
Most of the stuff being said in the article is by Afghans themselves not by US commanders.

There’s only one reference to the Afghan in the article which is attributed to police Lieutenant Faiz Muhammad, the rest is the opinion of Times and anonymous US army personnel who are quoted quite liberally to suit Times own agenda. I for one would like to hear the opinion of top or any US brass in the area willing to put his name to those words. There are many problems with the way things are done there but those should be addressed honestly. A blank statement like this
The US military is reportedly highly critical of the competence and capabilities of Polish forces serving in Afghanistan

just rubs the people the wrong way especially when they rely on anonymous source to reach that conclusion. If there's a problem expose it, simple as that.
Chicago PollockThreads: 10
Posts: 638
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 04:16    #29
peterweg:

“It was as if the [Polish] were waiting for us to come back and release them from their base” one anonymous officer told Time magazine. “[the Poles are] just kind of hanging around,” he added.


It looks to me like the Poles don't want to get their butts shot. I Don't blame them.

A J:

Well, if the U.S. army was so great, then how come the local Afghans were much happier with Dutch soldiers?


Apparently the Dutch were very successful We should pull out and let the Dutch take over. AJ how about an Afghan holiday?

PlasticPole:
In that case, they shouldn't enlist. Enlisting means you have to go wherever the govt sends you and it could mean you have to engage in combat.


Defense of one's country is the responsibility of all the citizens and not just the ones who decided to volunteer.
A JThreads: 19
Posts: 4,639
Joined: May 21, 10 ♂ 		 Dec 18, 10, 04:27    #30
skysoulmate:
You are totally clueless in this aspect. You have no idea how many of our guys have died by being overly protective of the civilian population, something jihadis use to their advantage each and every day.


I've seen the footage in question, and even I could see that these people were unarmed as they flew around the buildings. Use your goddamn binoculars. Just imagine what would happen if every soldier opened fire like this! And opening fire on unarmed people who are retrieving their wounded, even when they're combatants, would be one of the biggest no-no's for a soldier! (I've always been instructed not to!)

tygrys:
In war innocent people die. Doesn't matter who shoots at who, there will always be innocent people caught in the middle. You make it sound like all Americans go and shoot children but you do not know how many wish they were never there.


I know they wish they were never there. I know most guys are trying to be good soldiers, for as much as that is even possible. It's just the fact that your army recruits people who have criminal records which bothers me. I think this may have something to do with the misbehavior of some soldiers. For example when a whole Iraqi family got raped and murdered in their own home. This is unnacceptable. Have you heard about such incidents involving Polish soldiers? No, you haven't! But still some Americans have the audacity to call the Polish army crap, and this is why this thread bothers me.

tygrys:
You don't realize that American soldiers have families, children at home but were enlisted and shipped out somewhere where they would rather not be. They would prefer to stay home with their families than go shoot at children.


I know.

tygrys:
But the military does not represent all Americans.


No, but I think it wouldn't hurt Americans if they showed more outrage when such incidents occur, instead of covering them up, or trying to divert from their own **** ups by complaining about Polish soldiers in their newspapers. I probably view this article as showing a lack of respect for your allies. I've heard many good things about the Polish soldiers, and I know their military presence is much smaller in numbers, so I don't think American troops would do any better under such circumstances.

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