VAT, OFE, ZUS under Tusk's government

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide

MalopolaninThreads: 8 Posts: 198 Joined: Sep 5, 10 ♂	Aug 5, 11, 23:41 #1
So you say Tusk's government with higher VAT and stealing money from OFE is better and less populist than previous one?

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Aug 6, 11, 04:28 #2

So you say Tusk's government with higher VAT and stealing money from OFE is better and less populist than previous one?

And yet they're heading straight for a second term.

Incidentally, without taking the money from OFE, how would you propose to plug the huge black hole in ZUS?

(here's a hint : cutting pensions or higher contributions, neither of which were acceptable to the Polish public - but few people cared about the OFE funds)

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Edited by: Bartolome Aug 6, 11, 14:09 #3

So you say Tusk's government with higher VAT and stealing money from OFE is better and less populist than previous one?

Populism would be something completely opposite: happily giving money away to anyone asking for it. Lepper was in favour of printing more: we've got short memory, don't we?

the amount of hypocrisy in the parliament has not decreased (I think even contrary) - malintent omnipresent- if this is peaceful 'boring times' then what kind of storm are we up to

We're already in a strom. I don't even want to imagine what would it be like under PiS-LPR-Samoobrona.

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Aug 7, 11, 12:12 #4

Incidentally, without taking the money from OFE, how would you propose to plug the huge black hole in ZUS? (here's a hint : cutting pensions or higher contributions, neither of which were acceptable to the Polish public - but few people cared about the OFE funds)

Here's another hint: it was Lepper's idea to do that. So who is populist there? The one who only talked about it, or Tusk, who actually did it?

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Edited by: delphiandomine Aug 7, 11, 13:32 #5

Here's another hint: it was Lepper's idea to do that. So who is populist there? The one who only talked about it, or Tusk, who actually did it?

Who said that Lepper only had bad ideas? The OFE system, although a good idea in theory, was causing massive transfers from ZUS to the private system. Not such a good idea when the system has a huge deficit and increasing.

Incidentally - in Hungary - their OFE system was actually abolished and the money taken into public hands. In Poland, we only saw the level of contributions cut, nothing more.

Still wondering what you would do to plug the black hole in ZUS....

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Aug 7, 11, 14:33 #6
Who said that Lepper only had bad ideas? Not such a good idea when the system has a huge deficit and increasing. LOL ! You are a typical socialist. There's a problem, what's the solution ? Take away more money from the people. Any changes on the spending side ? Forget about it. Typical socialistic thinking, not surprising that you spend half of your time here defending PO.

MalopolaninThreads: 8 Posts: 198 Joined: Sep 5, 10 ♂	Aug 7, 11, 14:44 #7
Still wondering what you would do to plug the black hole in ZUS.... There is no need to support existence of ZUS, KRUS, or NFZ.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 7, 11, 14:55 #8
There is no need to support existence of ZUS, KRUS, or NFZ. So where else would pensions, invalidity benefit and health care come from? A wishing well?

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Aug 7, 11, 15:28 #9
So where else would pensions, invalidity benefit and health care come from? A wishing well? Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people.

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Aug 7, 11, 16:33 #10

There's a problem, what's the solution ?

Tell us your wonderful solution to the ZUS deficit, then?

Any changes on the spending side ? Forget about it.

You do realise that any changes on the spending side would involve cutting benefits and pensions?

Ah, that's right - you support changes, but only to those that you think are political enemies.

Anyway, let's start with the false claiming of "renta" to massage the unemployment figures. We all know that successive governments have used this in order to cut unemployment numbers - and we all know that many of them work illegally anyway. By cutting this, we could save plenty of cash - and force them into declaring their income.

Not a bad idea.

There is no need to support existence of ZUS, KRUS, or NFZ.

Interesting. Cutting out KRUS would definitely help things - but there's no parliament majority in favour (SLD, PSL and PiS are all against). NFZ? No NFZ means vast amounts of people in Poland who wouldn't be able to afford any sort of healthcare. ZUS? Who would buy it in the current state?

How bizzare to see PiS supporters support cutting the public services on which most PiS supporters are reliant on.

Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people.

Good for you and me, bad for those who think "woohoo, I have cash, let's buy things!".

(and herein lies the great debate about personal responsibility)

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Aug 7, 11, 17:45 #11
Cut out the middleman and sell long term government bonds directly to the people. Great. Tell some profoundly disabled person that instead of getting invalidity benefit they can buy some bonds!

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