Could what happened in Norway happen in Poland?

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 03:14 #91
i just read that the maximum sentence this guy can get is 21 years. If that's true, Norway is officially a stupid country.

LlamaticThreads: 4 Posts: 605 Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 25, 11, 04:25 #92
i just read that the maximum sentence this guy can get is 21 years. If that's true, Norway is officially a stupid country. Yep. Them Lefties and their misplaced sympathies...

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Edited by: MediaWatch Jul 25, 11, 05:12 #93

Bullshit. The Lwów, Jedwabne and Kielce pogroms are all fine examples of mass killings. We could also mention the various killings of Ukrainians indiscriminately if you want to talk about Polish mass killing.

But these mass killings by criminal Poles usually did not happen in peacetime conditions (Poland being stable) or when Poland was not being destabilized (or just wounded) by foreign powers and they did not happen in a vaccuum. Foreign interests were provoking most of it on. Whatever criminal activities Poles engaged in when the Soviet Union controlled Poland, much of it was sparked by Soviets and Soviet puppets in Poland.

As for criminal Poles killing other Poles in general, Poles in general do less of that then other countries. At least up until now.

Everything is relative. Poland's citizens relative to your Russia's citizens, are saints.

Russians during and after WWII got their kicks murdering and brutalizing tens of millions of Russians and non-Russians.

Even before WWII in the 1930's, Russians in Moscow got their jollies giving the orders to kill about 10 million Ukrainians. The Russian soldiers were all too happy to carry out those orders. Just Google "The Holodomor". Its the Holocaust of millions of Ukrainians by Soviet Russians. Russians then seized the property of Ukrainians killed in Ukraine, (mostly Eastern Ukraine) and that's why there are so many ethnic Russians in Ukraine today.

Having said this, serial or mass killings can happen in any country. Psychopaths are everywhere. But some countries are more vulnerable to it then others. Depending on what's going on in and around the country.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 05:41 #94
Having said this, serial or mass killings can happen in any country. Psychopaths are everywhere. So true, MW. Wherever there are humans you will have scientists, killers, geniuses, scumbags,... We have to learn to understand ourselves better, no matter where we live.

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,955 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Edited by: Marek11111 Jul 25, 11, 05:52 #95
I do not see how one person can kill so many and why police did not respond for 90 min. the police run a drill just like the event two days before just like London bombing and 9/11 drills happening on the same day that the terror attacks happen and exact same scenario, something stinks in here. there is also report of a second shooter.

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Jul 25, 11, 05:55 #96

ideologies mentality

Llamatic (or any other "wild" nick name you prefer) ... you are clearly a threat to progressive societies, just like your "right wing" people have been since a long time. Caused too much harm...

We need to get rid of this from Poland and from Europe, and from the rest of the world. Not by violence (which is a right wing thing), but my democracy, policies etc ... in the civilized manner. That is the way of the civilized, and not the way of the right wing, so for civilization to progress such ideologies in such communities must be either reformed or removed.

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Jul 25, 11, 07:18 #97

Having read some of Breivik's "work", it strikes me that Llamatic uses exactly the same vocabulary, anti-Liberalism, anti-left, etc etc.

We have seen what these views, this rhetoric leads to. Llamatic is just a Breivik with less guts (or no farm, so he can't order fertilizer). Quite worrying, really.

(Of course he will now slam me with the same words, which only reinforces my opinion - ah, well ...).

LlamaticThreads: 4 Posts: 605 Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ [Suspended]	Jul 25, 11, 07:28 #98
So you guys are still using the senseless murdering of 90+ people, mostly children, as cheap fodder to attack the Right. Liberalism truly is despicable.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 08:07 #99
I do not see how one person can kill so many and why police did not respond for 90 min. If that happened in Poland, the koonts would be all over it for months. So you guys are still using the senseless murdering of 90+ people, mostly children, as cheap fodder to attack the Right. They definitely do. Disgusting.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Edited by: sobieski Jul 25, 11, 09:14 #100
The namiotists are also capable to do this. I saw last year the nutters in action when the cross had to be removed (and rightly so). The sheer scary fanaticism emanating from that fundamentalist crowd..

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,958 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Edited by: southern Jul 25, 11, 09:33 #101
Norway has long tradition of radical right presence.There was Quinsling in WW2,SS Viking etc.Poland has almost no tradition of neonazi activity due to antislavism displayed by nazis.Radical right Poles would never kill other Poles.

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: Pinching Pete Jul 25, 11, 09:52 #102
Radical right Poles would never kill other Poles .. Probably less likely in Poland but still could happen. Scandinavians can foster some kooks and this proves it. However, ( and not to justify this crazy clown ) immigration up there has pi.ssed a lot them off and things like this are the aftermath unfortunately. Poland hasn't had the Muslim immigrants like Sweden, Norway..

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Jul 25, 11, 10:14 #103

the thing is there is no actual evidence they did

Yes there is listen to the tape.

Quote unquote one pilot to the other "should we pull out? No he isn't going to be very happy" Then Kazana (Kaczynski's protocol officer) after hearing the news from the pilots that "we might have to delay the landing' responds by saying " that's not good, I am going to have to speak to him to confirm-or words to that affect" And then not bothering to come back and leaving the pilots in doubt as to what was Kaczynski's intention.

OK - I was not best informed

Sadly a reflection of your entire outlook on Polish politics.

sobieskiThreads: 82 Posts: 1,143 Joined: Jun 1, 08 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 10:31 #104
So you guys are still using the senseless murdering of 90+ people, mostly children, as cheap fodder to attack the Right. Liberalism truly is despicable. Related to Timothy McVeigh are you ?

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Edited by: MareGaea Jul 25, 11, 11:05 #105

So you guys are still using the senseless murdering of 90+ people, mostly children, as cheap fodder to attack the Right.
Liberalism truly is despicable.

Nobody was attacking the right wing until they started accusing the left wing of abusing the incident. But then again, that's normal for the right wing - as most violence comes from the right wing anyway, they have to do sth to keep their conscience clean of the fact that it was one of their own who committed this ghastly crime for which there is no excuse. A truly sad feature of right wing is their collective refusal to accept responsibility and look at themselves and admit that it was one of them. But that's what is keeping them alive anyway - always shifting the blame to others and if this is not pssble, they still find ways to say that what "the others" do is much and much worse than what one of their own did.

just a few examples of recent right wing violence:

- mass killing in Norway
- murder attempt on a democratic governor
- muder of an abortion doctor
- racist violence against minorities
- violence against gay ppl
- violence performed by members of tea parties: death threats, molesting ppl, etc.

and the list goes on and on and on...And then they dare to state that they are peaceful and not much of a danger to society. Right wing is and always has been the biggest thread to society as they stand for everything that could enable violence within society and sometimes cross that border.

>^..^<

M-G (we have to tolerate them, unfortunately, but tolerance against intolerance is dwindling very swiftly and I can predict that there will be a point in time that ppl will stop tolerating and start to strike back at this vermin)

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Edited by: Moderator Jul 25, 11, 11:38 #106

(we have to tolerate them, unfortunately, but tolerance against intolerance is dwindling very swiftly and I can predict that there will be a point in time that ppl will stop tolerating and start to strike back at this vermin)

Yes M-G, you are right, no more tolerance for enemies of the people, the iron hand of peoples justice will be merciless for their enemies, whoever would rise his hand against the people we will cut it off ........hurray for comrade M-G!!

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Jul 25, 11, 11:42 #107

we have to tolerate them (right wingers)

It is said that Norweigan guy first said "hey, you, come here" - and kid went to him and he shot. He repeated this for a while.

Toleration to such types means somethings like this. When you tolerate them, they take it as they are rulers, they are more powerfuls, they are greats.. You can hear them saying they are fearless types and blame lefties as cowards..

This has nothing about ideology.. Think about war veterans now everywhere in the west who returned from war fields.. They got a habit of killing and greed is forcing them to do more.. Last year, there was a young guy who returned to USA from Iraq war - he killed his wife and kids before he shot himself in his head, he didn't die.

modafinilThreads: - Posts: 831 Joined: Jun 28, 11 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 12:05 #108
I don't think Poland will throw up a loonie but you never know There were a couple of small bombs that went off last week in Poland, weren't there? If that sh'thead had access / knowledge to fertilizer bomb making it could have been worse. The Norwegian had a position where he could get guns and enough 'home made' explosives, which made this scale of inhumanity achievable.

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jul 25, 11, 12:05 #109

Torq: One of the most idiotic statements to be written on this forum EVER.

No it isn't. Sadly, the extremists have become synonymized with the whole faith. True, there are enough of those extremists for it to be a huge global problem, but it's not everyone.

This is the problem: that the majority of Muslims are either too scared (can't say I blame them) or too indifferent to keep extremism in check. Nomad - when are the moderate Muslims going to start demanding that the hotheads keep their houses in order?

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Edited by: Des Essientes Jul 25, 11, 12:08 #110

A Pole would never murder the youth of Poland like this Norwegian murdered the youth of Norway. The people on this thread who say otherwise are not Poles but anti-Polish trolls that are always ready to believe the worst about Poles. Hey you trolls named Delphiandomine, Harry, and this thread's-starter, who has shamelessly taken the surname of the Polish hero Sobieski, I am right and you are wrong and everyday that goes by without such an incident happening in Poland further proves it. You all think Poles are capable of such an atrocity and so you must be scared of them and there is a word for that fear it is called Polonophobia.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Jul 25, 11, 12:11 #111

No it isn't.

Yes, it is.

The problem is that the extremists have become synonimized with the whole faith.

Well, if you consider the entire governments to be "extremists" (like in Saudi Arabia, where Christians
are persecuted because of their faith - and THAT'S THE LAW there), or entire countries to be "extremist"
(like Sudan, Saudia Arabia, Iran), but somehow I don't see how the entire governments, countries and
law systems can be considered just a bunch of extremists.

By the way - the sign below was surely hanged there by extremists, against the law and without
the consent of local authorities?

What is in place in many muslim countries is effectively an APPARTHEID based not on race,
but on religion, so please don't give me this "just a small bunch of extremists" bullsh*t, Alex.

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Jul 25, 11, 12:13 #112

Des Esseintes: I am right and you are wrong and everyday that goes by without such an incident happening in Poland further proves it.

We'd have all said the same about Norwegians until the weekend.

That said, Des - I hope (and believe, actually) that you're right. Why? Well, in no small part I think because Polish party politics orders on irrelevance for the vast majority of people here. Such resentments as there are are manifested verbally (and then some) for the most part.

Long may it stay that way.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 12:18 #113
Poland had the prime opportunity when rival factions came together over the cross issue but nothing came of it.

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Jul 25, 11, 14:25 #114

Interesting fact is that he was Inspired by the Polish King John Sobieski!

A 1500 word 'manifesto' written by the alleged killer details the planning behind the attacks. The document goes under the title "2083", the anniversary of the Battle of Vienna, led by Polish king Jan Sobieski among others.

In the 'manifesto' Breivik writes:

"John III Sobieski and the Holy League successfully defended Europe against an army of more than 150 000 Muslims at the Battle of Vienna.

http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/51514,Polands-FM-21-years-not-enoug h-for-Norway-mass-murderer

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 16:07 #115
nteresting fact is that Decidedly nieciekawy. he was Inspired by the Polish King John Sobieski! I would hesitate to use the word 'inspired', much less with a capital. The nut seems to have a very twisted understanding of history, Jan III Sobieski, bogus 'Knights Templar' orders etc.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Jul 25, 11, 16:15 #116
Interesting fact is that he was Inspired by the Polish King John Sobieski! Oh well, there are many Sobieskis on this forum, but, none of them has impressed me.. (did you realize the similarity of this Norweigan guy's views with common view of this forum?)

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Jul 25, 11, 16:26 #117

Interesting fact is that he was inspired by the Polish King John Sobieski!

And interestingly enough, that person's nickname who has opened this thread is none other than sobieski as well!

Another interesting thing is why it is - according to that other sobieski - "perfectly possible that in Poland an extreme-right religious fundamentalist would copycat his Norwegian 'colleague' " as there are "loads of them here in Poland", rather than having it been the other way - people "sticking to pitching plastic tents on the most beautiful street in the country and yelling rubbish through megaphones while the nearby restaurateurs lose business" having been the first ones to open fire onto their compatriots and thus setting a example to follow by extremists in one of the richest Western European countries which shines with values opposite to those attributed to hatred-stricken Poland by the sages of the PF.

NomadatNetThreads: 6 Posts: 1,492 Joined: Mar 28, 09 ♂	Edited by: NomadatNet Jul 25, 11, 16:33 #118
Another interesting thing is that opener of this thread isn't local, isn't native Polish, but, he still takes the nick of Sobieski.. (ps: King Sobieski of the history was supported by Churchs later - though he was supported to become the king of Poland by Scandanivans of the day at the beginning. )

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Edited by: JonnyM Jul 25, 11, 16:37 #119

extremist... Sudan, Saudia Arabia, Iran

Having lived and worked in one of those before and working right now in another of them, I would say that none of those societies are especially 'extremist'. They may have certain rules regarding dress (and so does France), an old fashioned legal code (which isn't as strict in practise as shrill anti-Islamic bigots claim) etc, but for the most part the population are normal decent moderate people. There are of course extremists there - just as there are in Norway, Poland and sadly on this forum too.

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Jul 25, 11, 16:49 #120

people "sticking to pitching plastic tents on the most beautiful street in the country and yelling rubbish through megaphones while the nearby restaurateurs lose business"

This is I did not write but I subscribe to it 100%. The rest I did write of course :). I am passing the namiotists almost every day by bike on my way to work. Their hate messages keep on going. If you think they are a symbol of tolerance, be my guest.
Actually I think HGW is far too tolerant with these nutters, there are for sure city regulations to remove them.
By the way, do thread openers have to be Polish? I guess being a fan of geothermal rydzyk helps :)

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