WikiLeaks Reveals Tense Foreign Relations Amongst Poland.

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Dec 9, 10, 06:47 #1

It is the biggest single concrete example of US support for Polish security on the ground. But the leaked embassy cables show that a battery of Patriot missiles in the north-east of the country lacked one crucial component – live missiles.

In May this year the Americans finally started rotating the missiles in and out of Morag, close to Kaliningrad, the Russian territory on the Baltic sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania. For two years, the Polish prime minister, foreign and defence ministers had sold the Patriots to the public as a great boost to national air defences (against Russia).

So when the Americans told them in late 2008 that the missiles would not be live, at least initially, the furious Poles complained they had expected an operational weapon, not "potted plants", the wikileaks cables report.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-cables-poland-pl ants-missiles

http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul144944_wikileaks-poland-got -potted-plants-instead-of-missiles.html

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/92279/

So is Poland truly a political puppet here of the two superpowers?

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Dec 9, 10, 08:12 #2
George8600: Stanislaw Komorowski, the deputy defence minister and former ambassador in London, who did most of the negotiating, died a month before the Patriot battery arrived in the plane crash at Smolensk in Russia that killed scores of the Polish elite. hmmm, now this makes the crash look even more suspicious.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 10:11 #3
Politics is dirty, and the dirt can only go when it is removed. I believe that Wikileaks is a good thing, and people have the right to know.

ZedThreads: - Posts: 304 Joined: May 25, 10 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 10:16 #4
Old news, new suppositions.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Dec 9, 10, 14:24 #5
George8600: is it a Patriot battery if it doesn't have live missiles? Probably what will happen is if tensions escalate and there is a percievable threat coming from Russia, things will change. Maybe there's other missiles elsewhere that are already operational that can do what these missiles are doing, so these are just back up. It might be more complicated than we realize.

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Edited by: Crow Dec 9, 10, 16:35 #6

George8600:

So is Poland truly a political puppet here of the two superpowers?

NO. USA and EU side by side with Islamic league and Israel (what a mind-blowing coalition, BDW) surrounding Russia and provoke conflict. Poland is part of that plan. Now, i understand Poland, Poles and that anti-Russian feeling in them. Russia failed on Slavic West and has big historic responsibility for aggravating relations with Poles. Anyway, USA and Co. uses this situation to pull Poland out from the Slavic world and manipulate it to threaten Russia. Bottom line is- incoming war against Russia that is desired by USA, EU and Co. Has to be waged on Slavic ground, with Poland and Slavic Balkan in the center of it. What i want to tell you- USA and EU strategists don`t give a sh** for Poland and Poles. Islamic league and Israel, even less

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Dec 9, 10, 16:46 #7
US and EU gain nothing from antagonizing Russia.

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 18:06 #8
George8600: the leaked embassy cables show that a battery of Patriot missiles in the north-east of the country lacked one crucial component – live missiles. More very real harm by Wikileaks terrorists.

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Dec 9, 10, 19:23 #9

Crow, I think that a potential disaster was averted when Obama was elected. I'm not his biggest fan (nor his biggest critic, I might add) but he steered a sensible course, unlike what John McCain would have done. McCain used the Georgian pretext to stir things up but he wasn't in control so stuff him. Obama is far more diplomatic in his tone and I don't feel that he personally has any war-like aspirations as regards Russia. People just like to live in their fantasy worlds but would get a REALLY nasty shock if a huge war broke out. It won't come to that!

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 19:55 #10
Once again Liberals at home and abroad have sided with Commies against the US: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/09/julian-assange-nobel-peace -prize

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 19:57 #11
trener zolwia: Once again Liberals at home and abroad have sided with Commies against the US They're probably trying to play nice considering that they're slated to release quite a bit of information on Russia.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 9, 10, 22:35 #12
There is a lot of rabble rousing and muck raking going on with this Wikileaks thing. Why can't people get over themselves and see it for what it is? I'll lay a bet with anyone that Russia won't attack Poland in the next 3 years, esp now that the missile shield has been shelved.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Dec 10, 10, 02:38 #13
trener zolwia: More very real harm by Wikileaks terrorists. What? The Polish people are very happy that they've found this out - allows them to know the truth about the Patriot deployment. Don't you think they've got a right to know about the defence of their country?

trener zolwiaThreads: 5 Posts: 2,786 Joined: Jun 8, 10 ♂	Edited by: trener zolwia Dec 10, 10, 02:47 #14
delphiandomine: Don't you think they've got a right to know about the defence of their country? Don't you think it hurts the bluff for enemies to learn the missile shield is an empty threat, an unloaded gun? Wikileaks vindicates Bush on WMDs in Iraq: http://townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2010/12/09/the_wikileaks_vin dication_of_george_w_bush/page/full/

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Dec 10, 10, 03:42 #15

trener zolwia:

Don't you think it hurts the bluff for enemies to learn the missile shield is an empty threat, an unloaded gun?

I think the Russians suspected it all along. They knew fine well that America wants peaceful relations with Russia - and the easiest way to do that is to lie to the Poles.

For what it's worth, they're just a small part of the defence of Poland anyway - nothing major. Still, better to know that the missiles were dummies, rather than not knwing at all.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 10, 10, 08:05 #16
True enough, Delph. There was actually talk of America helping Russia out in their War on Terror but it wasn't viable.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Edited by: 1jola Dec 10, 10, 08:38 #17
Seanus: There was actually talk of America helping Russia out in their War on Terror but it wasn't viable. Would it involve carpet bombing Chechnya? That is the extent of Russia's "War on Terror." Perhaps bombing Lubyanka - the main terrorist center, but that is not 'viable,' you're right.

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Edited by: delphiandomine Dec 10, 10, 09:21 #18

1jola:

Would it involve carpet bombing Chechnya?

Nothing wrong with that. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows fine well that Chechnya was home to quite a few Islamic terrorists - perhaps you might want to explain why they started the invasion of Dagestan if they're so "nice". We could also talk about their murder of civilians in the same war - fair enough, it's one thing to fight for your independence, but another thing to attack someone else just for the sake of your political aims.

Never thought Poles would support Islamic terrorists over Christians, but hey.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Dec 10, 10, 09:37 #19
Somehow I'm not surprising you would support the invasion of Chechnya. Remember the FSB trying to bomb an appartment building in Moscow? Who were the terrorists there? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Ryazan_inciden t

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 11, 10, 15:41 #20
Let's have Borrka and Nathan step up to the plate and outline the tense foreign relations with Russia. Yup, Medvedev being treated like a king and Putin hugging Tusk certainly shows their animosity in no uncertain terms ;) ;)

MaybeThreads: 7 Posts: 335 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Dec 11, 10, 15:44 #21
1jola: Remember the FSB trying to bomb an appartment building in Moscow? Who were the terrorists there? Quite. It is called a False flag operation.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Dec 11, 10, 18:35 #22
delphiandomine: fair enough, it's one thing to fight for your independence, but another thing to attack someone else just for the sake of your political aims. man get with the real world.

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