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Did you know that Polish army is the weakest in Central Europe?..

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Edited by: Sokrates Mar 14, 10, 01:56 #31

grubas:

How about Eurofighter Typhoon?

Its too new, after they refine it for 5+ years its going to be markedly superior but right now its not really superior also our F-16s are one of the latest blocks which makes them very good by any standards.

Another reason is that Typhoons are significantly more expensive due to how f*cked up their development program was.

grubas:

Poland should have bought Grippens (like Czechs did) and support european industry

Why? Grippens are worse on a number of fields.

grubas:

and support european industry.uuups I forgot that PL is a "troyan donkey" in EU.Never mind.

As far as our military is concerned i dont give a sh*t about european industry, we're relatively poor so if we have to cough up so much money its better to pay for the best quality available for the price, in this case F-16s were the best our money could buy.

♂

Mar 14, 10, 06:25 #32

Purpleworf is just trying to stir the pot. First he states that Belarus could roll over Poland in a week then he states that it could be done with help of Russia. How absurd is this stance, he is proven wrong then falls back on "my dad can kick your dad's ass" philosophy. Seriously? Most of Europe could fall with "the help of Russia". Grow up and abandon all hope purple, we all can sound eloquent with the help of wikipedia...

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Mar 14, 10, 06:50 #33

Sokrates:

You mean like these antique C-130's Poland "got" from the US? And what about the technical problems these F-16's suffered until now - including emergency landings when ferrying them to Poland?

♂

Mar 14, 10, 07:56 #34

purplewolf:

Our politician-prostitutes put all their faith in NATO, which supposedly is ready to defend us in every critical situation.

Which probably was a good Idea until the sheeple in the US elected the World Saviour, Barry Hussein Obama. Now where does that leave Poland? Sh*t out of luck. I hope not too many of your youth were in the big crowd at the Brandenburg Gate last year bowing down to the great one.

It makes many of us here in the U.S. sick to see how he has turned his back on Poland. I agree however that Poland should build up it's military.

♂

Edited by: skysoulmate Mar 14, 10, 08:01 #35

purplewolf:

Even poor Ukraine places itself amongst world-leaders of arms-industry... Belarus could conquer Poland with using conventional military means in a week, i guess... Our politician-prostitutes put all their faith in NATO, which supposedly is ready to defend us in every critical situation.. It's really frustrating for majority of Poles who are proud and honorable people.. Total destruction of national Polish arms-industry was a priority for all political parties and organisations in Poland functioning from 1989 which seems to be a syndrome of a self-destructive insanity in present, dangerous times..

I'm just shocked there was no mention of some kind of Jewish plot in your post?! I thought EVERYTHING was their fault?

sobieski:

You mean like these antique C-130's Poland "got" from the US?

These "antique" C130s are doing a great job in the US, Canada, Sweden, and many other countries. Most of them have been upgraded throughout the years and the latest J series use state of the art cockpit instrumentation. Don't know which series Poland got but don't discount a great airplane simply because it's been around for a while.

RonWest:

It makes many of us here in the U.S. sick to see how he has turned his back on Poland. I agree however that Poland should build up it's military.

Agree to all of the above.

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Edited by: grubas Mar 14, 10, 10:26 #36

RonWest:

I agree however that Poland should build up it's military.

It should build roads and lower taxes.not spend money on useless junk

RonWest:

Which probably was a good Idea until

I don't think so

RonWest:

Now where does that leave Poland?

Where?Its 2010 not 1938

RonWest:

It makes many of us here in the U.S. sick to see how he has turned his back on Poland

Good thing.PL should not get involved in any direct alliances with US as it only means troubles for PL and wasted money(Afganistan,Iraq Chirac was right when he told PL to shut up).THERE IS ALLREADY NATO!Instead it should ally itself closely with Germany,improve relations with Russia and keep out of troubles. It doesnt look like anybody is going to attack PL in foreseeable future,and there is no need to create this atmosphere of fear.

♂

Edited by: grubas Mar 14, 10, 11:33 #37

Sokrates:

in this case F-16s were the best our money could buy.

Prove it.ofset?

Sokrates:

Its too new, after they refine it for 5+ years its going to be markedly superior but right now its not really superior also our F-16s are one of the latest blocks which makes them very good by any standards.

Very good may not be good enough.If f 16 was so great Luftwaffe and RAF wouldn't bother with eurofighter.

Sokrates:

Another reason is that Typhoons are significantly more expensive

I know they are but we disscus the best fighter not the cheapest one.

Sokrates:

Why? Grippens are worse on a number of fields

e.g?

♂

Edited by: purplewolf Mar 14, 10, 11:33 #38

Sokrates:

Ukraine cant even feed its soldiers and its industry is collapsing, i wonder where you get such info?

It's like explaining that sun is shining.. You are not very into the subject, read first... Ukraine is amongst 5th world-leaders in producing and exporting modern weapon, including tanks which belong to the best in the world...

http://www.mojeopinie.pl/ukraina_wsrod_najwiekszych_eksporterow_broni, 3,1246891641
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_expo rters
http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/ukrainian_tanks.html

Sokrates:

Actually despite some problems our industry is doing great and our military is by far the most modern and capable out of all former communist countries, we've got modern AWIFVs, modern AT assets, 48 latest block F-16s which are currently the best fighters in Europe and more, none of the countries you mentioned comes even close in military capacity.

You are kidding, right?.. F-16, technology from 70s, 1700 critical failures by now, moreover they are still not ready to fight because Americans didn't install WRE... These aircrafts are useful only for military parades today... Best fighters in Europe?.. wtf?.. ;).. What about Mirages, Hornets, Eurofighters?.. The all are technologically more advanced... Even old Russian SU-27 is better classified in world-military rankings than F-16...

We have no modern aircrafts, 65% of our tanks are T-72 from soviet times, our weapon is old and outdated, that's the truth about Polish army..

Claimings like: "Polish army is the best amongst armies of postcommunist countries" are obvious lies and I really don't see a reason of your primitive propaganda of success.. Even if we had one of strongest armies in Europe, we never should say we are "strong enough".. Poland in its geopolitical situation should be one of the most militarized countries in the world, not only in Europe...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 11:45 #39
purplewolf: Poland in its geopolitical situation should be one of the most militarized countries in the world, not only in Europe... What for?

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,390 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 11:46 #40
Sokrates: As far as our military is concerned i dont give a sht about european industry If you are european you should.Americans do give a *** about their industry(Boeing vs Northrop/Airbus tanker contract).

purplewolfThreads: 2 Posts: 63 Joined: Mar 13, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 11:49 #41
Bratwurst Boy: What for? That's a f**ing stupid question...

king polkagamon	Mar 14, 10, 11:51 #42
Belarus has more tanks than Poland.And if Russians fire their missiles from Kaliningrad,ojojojoj.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 14, 10, 11:52 #43
purplewolf: That's a f**ing stupid question... Then it should be easy to answer it, shouldn't it! ;)

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Mar 14, 10, 12:01 #44

Sokrates:

Ukraine cant even feed its soldiers

Which is no surprise at all when we consider the fact that their military budget
is roughly $1.5 billion whilst ours is about $12 billion (8 times higher).

Also it may seem that they have an advantage with their 149 thousand active
personnel compared to our 100 thousand, however, we have to take into account
that our soldiers are professionals and the majority of their soldiers are 18 year old
conscripted peasant boys.

Our army, after a war-time mobilization of reserves could fight a successful defensive
campaign against Russia for long enough to receive support from NATO (that's the plan
in case of Russian invasion, which by the way, isn't very likely) and in case of all-out
war with Germany might be brought to the limits of its defensive capabilities.

Having said that, the conflict with Russia is not very likely and would prove to be
disastrous and ultimately unprofitable for both sides. As for talking about the conflict
with Germany, today when we are allies and have very decent relations (plus we are
a part of European Union), it's even less likely than a conflict with Russia.

So, that's Germany and Russia. If any other of our neighbours tried anything stupid
against us, we would pretty much own them like bit*ches.

purplewolf:

Poland in its geopolitical situation should be one of the most militarized countries in the world, not only in Europe

We could always use a stronger military - that's true.

purplewolf:

We have no modern aircrafts, 65% of our tanks are T-72 from soviet times, our weapon is old and outdated, that's the truth about Polish army

We also have some modern weapons at our disposal and the Army is undergoing
the process of modernization (limited by the budget capabilities of course), our
soldiers are professionals (many of them seasoned veterans of foreign campaigns),
we have 3 million trained reservists and over 10 million men available for military
service and we are a part of the strongest military alliance in the world.
So why don't you stop panicking, Purplechicken?

king polkagamon:

Belarus has more tanks than Poland.

Read again my post no.23 about the "mighty" Belarussian army and stop making a fool of yourself.

grubasThreads: 20 Posts: 1,390 Joined: Feb 1, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 12:03 #45
Torq: Denmark - 29th :-))))) Go Denmark!!!-)

♂

Edited by: purplewolf Mar 14, 10, 12:14 #46

Torq:

Which is no surprise at all when we consider the fact that their military budget
is roughly $1.5 billion whilst ours is about $12 billion (8 times higher).

It means nothing, it's just money spent by government to buy new equipement.. Ukraine doesn't have to buy new equipement because it produces it itself.. Ukraine is situated on 5th place in the world in producing and exporting modern weapon.

Is it really so hard to simply click on links I posted before?..

http://www.mojeopinie.pl/ukraina_wsrod_najwiekszych_eksporterow_broni, 3,1246891641
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_largest_arms_expo rters
http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/ukrainian_tanks.html

Torq:

So why don't you stop panicking, Purplechicken?

Huh?.. It's not a panic, it's a realistic analysis of the present situation... And it's a honest love for my countryland and logical consequence of harsh lessons that we took from history.. Just before 1939 we were ethusiastic and sure of our domination over Third Reich's military... Even during the september campaign which was lost from the very beginning our press was writing about 'taking over Berlin' by Polish troops.. Who were these people?.. Polish patriots or our cynical enemies located in media?..

Even if our army was stronger than Bundeswehr, i'd always keep saying that it's not strong enough yet, considering the fact of real threat from Russia and its satelite-republics...

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 14, 10, 12:21 #47

purplewolf:

logical consequence of harsh lessons that we took from history..

Somehow I doubt you personally learned anything at all (compared to your government).

Poland can only be safe in a strong alliance with it's neighbours...the biggest military will only further your total destruction should your diplomacy and your ally-chosing malfunction again.

The strongest military isn't a viable option when you border potential bigger, meaner enemies....being part of the EU and the NATO was a much wiser choice!

PS: That holds true for all continental european countries...I would only take out of this the UK because of their insular location and Russia, who really has to fear nobody and doesn't need an ally at all.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Mar 14, 10, 12:24 #48

purplewolf:

It means nothing, it's just money spent by government to buy new equipement.

Erm... no - wrong again, Purpy.

Military budget is money spent on everything military: soldiers wages', fuel for the vehicles,
repairs, buying the new equipment, training, the upkeep of military infrastructure etc. etc.

purplewolf:

Ukraine doesn't have to buy new equipement because it produces it itself

LOL!!!

I can see that your knowledge of economy is matched only by your knowledge
of military affairs :-)

So, Ukraine doesn't have to pay for those tanks and planes they make, right?
The factories just make them and give them to the army. How cool is that!!!

:-)))......sorry.......... just can't stop laughing at the moment..... :-)))))

purplewolf:

Ukraine is situated on 5th place in the world in producing and exporting modern weapon.

The word "modern" is debatable here - relatively modern, I'd say. It is quite modern
and CHEAP compared to top-class arms and that's why it finds a lot of buyers.

purplewolf:

Even if our army was stronger than Bundeswehr, i'd always keep saying that it's not strong enough yet, considering the fact of real threat from Russia and its satelite-republics...

Oh, I can see that you have good intentions, Purpy, but when you say that Belarus
could conquer Poland in a week and try to depict Ukraine as some sort of a military
superpower then you are putting yourself in a very uncomfortable postition of a board
retard. Don't do that - you're a smart boy.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 14, 10, 12:26 #49
Poland got Leopards! Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :):):) BB hugs Leopard

purplewolfThreads: 2 Posts: 63 Joined: Mar 13, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 12:36 #50
Bratwurst Boy: (compared to your government). What is your nationality if I may ask?...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Mar 14, 10, 12:37 #51
purplewolf: What is your nationality if I may ask?... German! The lair of the Leopard...and the Tigers....not to forget the Panthers....and all those other big cats! :) Torq: That would be a perfect username for you - PurpleTrollingMoron :-)))) I quite liked "Purpy" too...;)

♂

Mar 14, 10, 12:49 #52

The idea of Belarus or Ukraine invading PL is simply insane and imo not worth to be talked about,but...

Torq:

We could always use a stronger military - that's true

What for and who is going to pay for it?

Torq:

our
soldiers are professionals (many of them seasoned veterans of foreign campaigns

Did you serve in MON?Seasoned in what?Fighting guerilla?Did they ever fight any regular army with equel or greater firepower?Foreign campaings experience is just utter BS.How does terrain in Afganistan compare to Poland's one?

king polkagamon	Mar 14, 10, 13:34 #53
Balance of power between Poland and Belarus is very important for capacity of Lukashenko to continue his rule.He is secure now with all these heavy Russian forces stationed in Kaliningrad(they are enough to occupy the whole Poland).

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Torq Mar 14, 10, 13:40 #54

king polkagamon:

all these heavy Russian forces stationed in Kaliningrad(they are enough to occupy the whole Poland

LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast#Military

As of 2009, there are 11,600 Russian ground troops based in the oblast, plus additional naval and air force personnel.

Russians needed 45,000 troops to occupy tiny Chechenya (10,000 for Grozny alone),
so how is 11 thousand enough to occupy the entire Poland?

purplewolfThreads: 2 Posts: 63 Joined: Mar 13, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 13:45 #55
Torq: Russians needed 45,000 troops to occupy Chechenya (10,000 for Grozny alone), so how is 11 thousand enough to occupy entire Poland? Hey, Bobby Jewtrollsky, we are a superpower already, nobody can touch us, we all know it, your mission is accomplished... [gasp].. You can freely join mr Kaczynski during vibrant service in Warsaw synagogue and pray for new "Rzeszapospolita"...

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Mar 14, 10, 13:51 #56
purplewolf: Hey, Bobby Jewtrollsky, we are a superpower already, nobody can touch us, we all know it, your mission is accomplished... You can freely join mr Kaczynski during vibrant service in Warsaw synagogue and pray for new "Rzeszapospolita" We have already established that you are a troll and a retard. There's no need to provide additional proofs.

purplewolfThreads: 2 Posts: 63 Joined: Mar 13, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 13:51 #57
Torq: We have already established More of you here?... Good to know...

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Torq Mar 14, 10, 13:55 #58
^^ Confused retard, who thinks that Belarus could conquer Poland in a week and that Ukraine doesn't have to pay for its military equipment because they manufacture it themselves... ...I can't decide if it's more funny or sad.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 13:56 #59
It is pretty laughable :) Clearly false.

skysoulmateThreads: 41 Posts: 3,039 Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂	Mar 14, 10, 13:59 #60
Seanus: It is pretty laughable :) Clearly false. Agree.

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