Looking for an English speaking/writing/correctly spelling volunteer proofreader:)

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Apr 12, 11, 12:44 #1

Hi,

I've just started working as a part-time translator for a Polish art gallery (state-owned), translations are from Polish into English, I've done it before for other institutions but they always employed a native English editor, which makes sense since I'm Polish; the gallery I'm working for now can't afford to hire a proofreader (at least not for the time being), so I was wondering - is there anyone who would be happy do the editing only for the benefit of having their name mentioned in the acknowledgments?

As for the workload - the first batch of short texts totals 7000 characters including spaces (in the source language - PL).

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 14:28 #2
lalami: happy do the editing only for the benefit of having their name mentioned in the acknowledgments I don't think this is gonna happen. Editing is one heck of a job, personally I think translation is easier ;-)

alexw68

Edited by: alexw68 Apr 12, 11, 14:36 #3

Magdalena:

Editing is one heck of a job, personally I think translation is easier ;-)

Seconded - don't underestimate that part of the task. I did a fair bit of this back in the day when I was naive and eager to please. From the experience, I concluded that the problem with art copy is that 90% of the source text is written in execrable (if grammatically and stylistically correct) Polish, which fails to communicate anything of cultural or semantic value whatsoever. On more than one occasion I had to write something of my own devising in order to achieve any kind of connection with the intended reader.

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Edited by: JonnyM Apr 12, 11, 14:40 #4

Better to hire a native speaker to translate. Some of us do translations, and if a Polish 'professional translator' can only produce stylistically perfect copy if they have to have it reworked, they are a second class option to say the least and it is rather unprofessional of the translator to do it without.

I don't like proofreading either - much prefer to translate. I'd never translate anything more complex than a note to the milkman into Polish if it was for public view, nor would I check the work of a translator from Polish into my L1 - I can do the whole translation better than they can.

But it's a positive step - most Polish museums and galleries that provide information in English have cringemakingly embarrassing translations (remember that huge banner in Warsaw advertising "The Chopin's Parlour" anyone?) all for the sake of a few pln per page.

If you want a freebie proofreader, given that it's for a museum, why not contact the International Womens' Group (offices at the LIM centre) - they do a lot of voluntary stuff, are always looking for new things to do, and somebody there would probably be very happy to help.

kookiedooThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 14:58 #5
Hi Lalami, I am a native English speaker and would be happy to help you with this. If you can provide me with an email address to contact you on, we can discuss it further. Kind regards, Kirsty

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,389 Joined: Aug 15, 07 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 15:01 #6
JonnyM: from Polish into my L1 - I can do the whole translation better than they can. This is not always the case - you might not understand the source text well enough for that.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Apr 12, 11, 15:02 #7
JonnyM: if a Polish 'professional translator' can only produce stylistically perfect copy if they have to have it reworked, they are a second class option to say the least and it is rather unprofessional of the translator to do it without. Sorry Jonni but I've got to disagree with that entirely.

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Edited by: JonnyM Apr 12, 11, 15:14 #8

Magdalena:

This is not always the case - you might not understand the source text well enough for that.

When I take companies' money for translating, I make damn sure I do understand the source text. Perfectly. I hope you do too.

Harry:

Sorry Jonni but I've got to disagree with that entirely.

Remember I'm not talking about companies who employ professional proofreaders or translators who happily work with them - I'm talking about 'translators' who don't think they need them and organisations who are happy to have something translated (sometimes by someone's friend or relative) and then printed and published or put on display (often at great cost) without caring whether it is translated well. Nor am I talking about the very few non-native literary translators (who in any case always get it checked).

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Apr 12, 11, 15:23 #9

JonnyM:

When I take companies' money for translating, I make damn sure I do understand the source text. Perfectly.

With all due respect, do you never have a moment of doubt?

JonnyM:

I hope you do too.

I do my very best and then some. But I am not ashamed to ask / check if I feel something might be eluding me.

Overall - I tend to be wary of very strong statements like:

JonnyM:

nor would I check the work of a translator from Polish into my L1 - I can do the whole translation better than they can.

. I admit, most of the time proofreading / editing basically means re-writing from scratch; I cannot, on the other hand, imagine e.g. literary translation without a very strong cooperation between at least two translators, native speakers of both the languages involved. Each holds a part of the puzzle!

MEMBER ♂

Apr 12, 11, 15:26 #10

As a former proofreader and having worked for a translation company for eight years I would have to say that some so-called 'sworn translators' have a unique talent of butchering the English language to death.
A nice little example below:

The rules of using safe deposit box

1. Hotel rents safe deposit box to hotel guests only.
2. Hotel rents safe deposit box only if guest present identity card and stay card.
3. Safe deposit boxes are run by receptionists only.
4. One safe deposit box may be rented only by one person.
5. Guest may lodge his or her contents into envelope given by a receptionist. Receptionist writes on the envelope: 'without checking content'. Receptionist does not participate in the process of committee counting and does not describe the content of safe deposit box on any document.
6. Safe deposit box may be opened or closed only by using two keys at the same time. One key is given to the guest, the other owns hotel. Hotel key is kept in a place unavailable for third party.
7. Guest confirms deposit by his or her personal signature and then receives receipt.
8. The offer is available 24 hours a day free of charge.
9. Guest is obliged to keep the key in a place unavailable for third party. Also, deposit may be collected personally only by showing identity card and by receipt that is given before. The collection is confirmed by guest’s personal signature.
10. In case of losing key, hotel starts procedure called EMERGENCY OPENING. This offer costs €120.

alexw68

Apr 12, 11, 15:29 #11

Magdalena:

This is not always the case - you might not understand the source text well enough for that.

As Jonny says, you do your due diligence before you take the deal for corporate work.

But you're right where the art world is concerned. Obscurantist drivel which is designed to be opaque even to native-speakers (or just ineptly written, which is the more usual case) is guaranteed to make you overshoot your time estimate 2-fold until you get your fingers burnt a couple of times.

Not much fun when you ain't getting paid.

lalamiThreads: 3 Posts: 11 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 15:33 #12
I do know how hard proofreading is - I'd be much happier if I could place my post in the job section and offer money in return. I used to do some translations (ENG-PL) for free when I was younger and trying to boost my CV, so I guess I'm looking for someone like myself back then, not for professionals who have families to support and no time to waste.

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Edited by: Magdalena Apr 12, 11, 15:34 #13

ukpolska:

'sworn translators' have a unique talent of butchering

There is a very easy way of eliminating unprofessional sworn translators - you report them to the Ministry of Justice.

ukpolska:

The rules of using safe deposit box

1) Why would you hire a sworn translator to do a job of this kind?
2) The translation is not very good, but it should serve its purpose - it's perfectly comprehensible. I don't think most English hotels have better translations of their rules or instructions into e.g. French or German.
That said, I would only accept this translation if it were done by the hotel proprietor or one of the staff - if it's an outside job I'd not pay the translator ;-)

lalamiThreads: 3 Posts: 11 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 15:36 #14
olgamie@gmail.com Thanks:)

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Apr 12, 11, 15:41 #15

Magdalena:

With all due respect, do you never have a moment of doubt?

Very rarely nowadays - I really can't afford to get it wrong ;-)
Also, proofreading, translation and editing is something I've lived with my whole life for various reasons.

Magdalena:

I do my very best and then some. But I am not ashamed to ask / check if I feel something might be eluding me.

Yes. Same here.

Magdalena:

admit, most of the time proofreading / editing basically means re-writing from scratch

Almost always!

Magdalena:

I cannot, on the other hand, imagine e.g. literary translation without a very strong cooperation between at least two translators, native speakers of both the languages involved. Each holds a part of the puzzle!

Very much so. I can't remember the name of that famous Polish translator - his work often transforms the original and he is rightly celebrated for it.

lalamiThreads: 3 Posts: 11 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 15:54 #16
JonnyM: I can't remember the name of that famous Polish translator - his work often transforms the original and he is rightly celebrated for it. Maciej Słomczyński? Celebrated and criticized by some.

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Apr 12, 11, 16:26 #17

lalami:

Maciej Słomczyński? Celebrated and criticized by some.

That's the guy.

BTW, think about the International Womens' Group in the LIM centre. It's basically for women who are in Poland because of their husbands' jobs. Many gave up careers when their husbands were posted abroad and they aren't usually in Poland long enough to work in a Polish-speaking environment. They run all sorts of activities and projects (largely to stave off boredom and isolation) and the chance to proofread something for a museum would be right down somebody's street there. A friend who was a member used to do free proofreading while she was in PL - she wrote to lots of museums etc, but almost none were interested.

lalamiThreads: 3 Posts: 11 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 16:32 #18
Thanks for the suggestion:)

MEMBER ♂

Apr 12, 11, 16:33 #19

Magdalena:

There is a very easy way of eliminating unprofessional sworn translators - you report them to the Ministry of Justice.

Not my call, but good idea. :0)

Magdalena:

1) Why would you hire a sworn translator to do a job of this kind?

Again not my call as I worked for an agency and maybe the customer asked for this. Anyway the translation was rejected and they were made to do it again.

Magdalena:

2) The translation is not very good, but it should serve its purpose - it's perfectly comprehensible. I don't think most English hotels have better translations of their rules or instructions into e.g. French or German.

perfectly comprehensible may I present "committee counting". ;0)

And an age old phrase comes to mind, "two wrongs don't make a right", and it is rather strange logic to justify this with a supposed English to German/French translation.

This was not personal Magda and I am sure you are an excellent translator and adhere to the exceptional standards that people expect from you - it's just sadly not all in your profession have the same conventions as yourself...

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Apr 12, 11, 16:43 #20

ukpolska:

may I present "committee counting". ;0)

Yeah, that. I forgot about that ;-)

ukpolska:

and it is rather strange logic to justify this with a supposed English to German/French translation.

I just wanted to introduce some balance here. For the sort of purpose this text would serve, it seems adequate, and such translations are "produced" the world over. But...

Magdalena:

That said, I would only accept this translation if it were done by the hotel proprietor or one of the staff - if it's an outside job I'd not pay the translator ;-)

The problem with the translation market in PL is that most translators (including the sworn ones) freelance on a part-time basis. They are not really dependent financially on what they do, and though they like to call themselves "professionals" they usually don't put in the hard work, sweat, and tears that a professional full-time translator would. If something goes wrong, they can always skip away into the sunset. ;-)

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Apr 12, 11, 17:06 #21
Magdalena: Magdalena: ukpolska: the same conventions as yourself hehe, we are all human I suppose as I meant to say, "convictions" ;0)

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