Palestinians Destroy Wall, Flood Egypt

If you are going to accuse anyone who criticises Israel of being anti semite then there really is no hope for any reasoned debate.


OK, lets call it apartheid.


Ghettos were set up to control the Jewish population, as you are aware there were lots of ghettos. Jews in some ghettos had limited movement outside of the ghetto, for work etc. Obviously they had to pass through "security barriers etc". Excuses were made that Jews carried typhus and diseases etc. Doesn't quite justify it though does it ?
See pic in last post.


The death of children is very emotive but I think if you were to compare the lives of children in the West Bank and Gaza to their Jewish counterparts there is evidence of an apartheid. If you also wanted to look at the morbidity rates, access to healthcare, risk of being shot etc.......

They were set up as a step in the extermination process, not to control the jewish population. What reason did the germans have to control the Jewish population other than to kill them? Were we killing germans? Comparing that to the control of the movement of a population among who there are terrorists actively killing civilians is superficial and ridiculous. What country wouldn't protect its citizens from people coming in and bombing them? What does that have to do with the ghettos?
You compare it with Apartheid? Again i repeat: Both Arabs and Jews live on both sides of the wall. You compare mobidity rates? The Palestinian morbidity rate is probably lower than anywhere in the Arab world, thanks to the fact that they have access to Israeli hospitals and prefer them to Palestinian hospitals.
These arguments of yours are mindless repetitions of anti-israel propoganda that have little connection to what is actually happening on the ground.

When someone compares Israel's defensive actions against terrorists to the Nazis extermination of the jews they are doing it for a reason. Of all the countries that fought terror, only Israel is compared to the nazis. That's not legitimate criticism, it's a provocation designed to insult us. What do you call that? I call it anti-semitism.

you guys conviniently skipped a step.

when they have their lands back, no more bombs.

The Nazis said they had to control the Jews because they spread diseases.
The Israelis said they had to control the Arabs because they bombed them.
Ghetto is a ghetto.

OK, people can click on the link and see it for themselves.
URL

Again, anyone interested can read the link and make their own mind up.
URL

Look at the title of the thread. Palestinians tore down the wall to buy food and fuel.

Because as long as you call it anti-semetism you dont have to deal with the issue.

This is pretty bad comparison. Palestinians indeed don't belong to reasonable people.

There is some true here. What goes around comes around. The Jews have history of spreading black propaganda against other nations.

Palestinians don't belong to reasonable people? That's not a fair statement. Arafat is arguably a more reasonable man than Sharon or Netanyahu. They are figureheads tho. The people there are just responding to the climate. Hardly unreasonable. I guess u r associating them with the terrorists. It'd be understandable to look for some protection behind Hezbollah and Hamas but they don't do this to the extent to which u imagine

Please explain.

...dead. Since 2004.

Bit of a mess ensued which left Hamas in power.
As for Hezbollah, that bunch of jihadist, terrorist, murdering, women hating..............

Hezbollah Jihadist Nutter

First, $3B is just a part of the story.

Of course not. After all they get $3B/year from the US, plus a bonus or two once in a while.

But obviously it had nothing to do with diseases. We know why the nazis put jews in ghettos, in order to exterminate them.
On the other hand the arabs really do bomb jews (civilians). It's not a cooked up theory, it's in the news every day and they are proud of it. And you left out the little detail that we are not exterminating them or using them for slave labor or putting them in camps or any of the other things that go along with "ghetto".
A ghetto is a ghetto. But this isn't.


Excuse me? We gave them Gaza and that's where they fire the rockets from.
More than that: Before we took the West Bank and Gaza the Arabs also fought against us, why do you think there was a war in 1967? So if we give them all the land we took (not from them by the way) it still won't solve anything. It didn't prevent war then, why will it create peace now?

I'm actually reading Vladimir Bukovksy "Moscow Trial" and passed chapter about Soviet foreign aid for their "friends". Among those friends were also various Palestinian terrorist groups. They sent them weapons (so called "special equipment") also on request from Arafat. Two two Jews that you mentioned have also shady past and I have not intention to defend them. Jewish nationalists did not help the cause of peace as well.



Terrorists and their sympathizers. Apologism of terrorist activity is not reasonable. A lot of them cheering for people like OBL.




What is the point? You sound envious. These money are thanks to effort of well organized Jewish lobby in the US. This is not fault of the Jews that other lobbies either don't exist or are badly organized. If the sucker give the money (the US) then only an idiot would refuse to take it. I can understand that American taxpayers might be pissed off about this but you both don't belong to this group.

Palestinians theoretically could organize similar lobby. The Jews never had any problems with money, while Palestinians otherwise. Palis were poor before the Jews came, they are still poor and would remain poor if the Jews would leave. So, this is reasonable nation in your opinion?

Aha, I meant to write Arafat was, sorry, little slip

they are just right breaking the wall they need food,water and supplys good on them

A ghetto is not necessarily a precursor to extermination, wherever it may be.
Furthermore even those Ghettos in Nazi territories existing prior to the drafting of the Final Solution, therefore one does not automatically follow the other.
If you corral one ethnic group into a particular area and subject them to inferior living conditions and oppressive treatment you are creating a ghetto.
If you build a wall around them to control their movement then you're really not leaving much room for argument.

Like you say "if it walks like a duck,..."

First of all, if you compare what we do to what the Nazis did then we know what kind of ghetto that means - the kind that leads to treblinka. If you make the comparison then I'm saying it's not a valid comparison, not legitimate criticism and is just a provocation. You can't say "A ghetto is not necessarily a precursor to extermination" because then you're backing away from the comparison to nazis.
Second - we did not corral an ethnic group anywhere. No one was moved. We put up a wall between what the Palestinians want as a separate country and our side of that country. Call it a border. We also don't subject them to inferior living conditions. They are living exactly where they lived before there was a wall and we have no involvment with their living conditions. We do control their movement to a degree and that is in order to prevent them from bringing bombs into Israel and killing us, as they did just today in Dimona (which is not in "occupied " territory). Unlike your "ghettos" the wall and the checkpoints can disappear as soon as the palestinians stop actions of terror. They didn't exist before the intifada and they don't have to exist now. It's up to them to stop murdering and start building the country they claim to want.

The Palestinians are not suffering at the hands of Israel. They are suffering at the hands of thugs who call themselves leaders, terrorists who hijacked their cause to gain power and money. Why don't you look into where all the donations went. They didn't build schools, hospitals, courts of law or housing for refugees. They use the money either to line their pockets or to build rockets and bombs.

Explain this link to me then.

Made out of concrete 60 ft high ?

Look at the title of the thread - they had to tear down a wall to get food and fuel.

Seriously ?

54355.jpg

you're excused although your comprehention must be ok... you may be aware that there are many UN resolutions that Israel have not met dating from those days.. so, yeah, cough up the lands you're supposed to and you'll see peace, i am sure.


i suggest you put yourself in their shoues, at least for a minute or two, ok?

Get your facts straight. The "security wall" is around the west bank, not Gaza. The palestinians who tore down a wall were in Gaza, which is not connected to the west bank. The wall they tore down was the border between Gaza and Egypt, which Israel obviously has no control over -- not israel's security wall.

Israel does not administer the west bank any more except for the checkpoints and the wall, which are necessary because of palestinian suicide bombers and roadside shootings. So their living conditions have nothing to do with us. The living conditions in Gaza are indeed affected -- by the violent takeover of their government by Hamas, a terrorist organization. That takeover, which includes constant rocket fire on israeli towns (not military targets) led to an Israeli closing of the border. Do you think we should open the border and welcome in the Hamas terrorists? The other thing affecting Gazas living conditions is the withdrawal of all Jewish civilians and soldiers in 2005 and the resulting disappearance of many places of employement and the separation of Gaza's economy from Israel's.They don't want to be part of Israel and the result is lower living standards. They can't have it both ways -- attack israel and also move freely across the border.

While there was a deterioration on their living conditions for the reasons I mention above, there was no humanitarian crisis except for the crisis artificially presented to the press by Hamas propaganda. They staged a parliament meeting held under candle light to dramatacize the so called Israeli blackout. Except the meeting was during the day and it was dark only because the curtains were closed to make it look like a blackout. Israel to this day supplies most of Gaza's electricity.

If you're so concerned with human suffering, why do you not feel the suffering of the people of Sderot who are under rocket fire for years, coming from Gaza? Your selective concern reveals a prejudice that colors your outlook. Or maybe it just reveals overexposure to slanted news reports in Europe.

No $*!t. Look at the wall in the pic I posted - try tearing down that. ;-)

Yeah right. Nothing to do with Israel.

Yep, "anti-semite" thats me, prejudiced too. LOL.

Szkotja, your arguments are getting progressively weaker. Once you get to "Yeah right" and "LOL" you've apparently run out of steam. Maybe if you go and reread some of those left wing propoganda websites you'll come up with new ammunition.

No, lets call it a 60ft high concrete wall. Its more descriptive.



If you control the movement of goods and services then you are responsible for their living conditions as you basically control their economy.



"to a degree" ? You've built a concrete wall around them and use armed soldiers to control their movements. You must admit the parallels with Warsaw during WW2 on this point. Who else has done this?



Absolutely right, Hamas are gangsters and terrorists.

it is their only defence.it is not closed.there are some check points which are great to control terrorists.i would send them a few bricks if they asked me to.

And they are the ones we have to defend ourselves from. But they don't wear uniforms and fight like a conventional army. They work among regular people and send women and young people as suicide bombers. So it's impossible to fight them without affecting anyone else, and we can't use conventional tactics. One of the ways to defend ourselves is with checkpoints and the wall. Of course it causes severe inconvenience to many innocent people and I'd rather they weren't there. But not as much suffering as the bombs cause. Just know that for every dead israeli you hear about on the news, there are tens of people who are crippled or paralyzed by the bombs, and they are all civilians. Walls, as bad as they are, don't kill. Bombs do.

Nope - just running out of time.
Besides, how do you seriously answer someone who says Israel is not detrimental to the Palestinians living conditions ? Israel is stealing their land and water.
The LoL is because you are calling me an anti semite and prejudiced for disagreeing with one of the most anti humanitarian viewpoints.

..... of Palestinians killed by Isreali forces....


and more often than not those maimed civilians are lebonese or Palestinian women and kids....

kaliszer wrote:

The wall they tore down was the border between Gaza and Egypt, which Israel obviously has no control over -- not israel's security wall.

I am aware of this...the article I posted was in direct reference to the Israeli policy of siege & starvation of the Palestinians in Gaza...as far as Hamas goes, they were democratically elected by the Palestinian people to be their representatives...but this was
unacceptable to the Israelis, because they no longer control Hamas, even though the Israelis initially funded Hamas, as a counterweight to Arafat & the Palestinian Authority...
here is an article compiled by Israelis that details some of the policies of the Israeli government in regards to Arabs:
http://www.jfjfp.org/factsheets/arabsinisrael.htm

if they had some mexicans there, the wall wouldn't stand a chance. lol

I repeat one more time what I've said before: When Israel fights Hizbollah or Hamas it sometimes results in civilian deaths, but they are avoided where possible. Since the enemy works from within civilian buildings and neighborhoods it's impossible to avoid civilian casualties completely, unless we don't defend ourselves at all (which might be what you prefer). But when Hizbollah and Hamas fire their rockets into Israeli towns, they intentionally and exclusively hit civilian targets. They don't even try to hit military targets because the whole point of terrorism is to drive the civilian population to a state of panic. Why does your bleeding heart have no room for these Jewish civilians? Where is your concern for their human rights?

You think that Israel commits terrorism? Let me as you this: I'm sure you agree that with all of Israels's superior fire power and control of the skies that we could simply carpet bomb all the civilians of Gaza till there were none left to do any harm to us (like Hiroshima, Dresden or Coventry), but we don't. We could also do exactly what they do and fire rockets and artillery blindly into the city of Gaza till it was competely destroyed. It's not as if we can't. But the fact is we don't. Whatever figure of civilian casualties you come up with (and many are just fabrications) you can't explain why there aren't more, if you think it's our policy to kill civilians. If that were our policy, why are there so few that were killed?

You do just this you mad deluded woman/man,whatever....

No, I KNOW Israel commits terrorism,what else do you call blowing up little girls jsut because theri dad may have some tenious conection to a distant relative of a Munich terrorist.....or the raids by israeli troops on the christian refugee camps in the 80s,or the shelling of a beach and murder of women and kids building sand castles. Or dropping cluster bombs on houses or laying butterfly mines ,coloured like kiddies toys in highly populated areas or AH 64 gunships blowing away a taxi that may or may not have a Arab politician in it on crowded gaza/west bank streets...and countless other examples. Sorry,you aint fooling anyone,maybe you really arnt told whats going on but i find that hard to believe as Im sure you will have served your national service(unless you have the p ussy clause of orthadoxy..)

no,maybe not policy,"you" just dont give a sh it if more arabs die.

I remember that one. I provide the link as it gives an insight into what goes on and counters claims that the Israelis do not target civilians....
URL

Israel said it has fired thousands of artillery shells into the Gaza Strip in response to armed Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad firing hundreds of homemade rockets into Israel. Israeli shells have killed about 15 civilians this year, including five children. The Palestinian rockets have not claimed any lives but have wounded several Israelis.